What are your thoughts on DVD/Blu-Ray?

[Marine Mike]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

i always found this argument odd. it's like overnight all of a sudden dvd's became shitty. when before they were hailed and loved by all. we are a finicky bunch aren't we?

Would you rather of me said, 'For DVD's time it looked good.'? Lets get real here, I was comparing it to the now. Therefore in comparison to whats available now, DVD is very sub-par to Blu-ray.

[[1080-p]]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

With an aging population, you can't rule the Boomers out. That being said, my parents lost quite a bit of money, however they've made back about 20% of their losses in the past 2 months. The economy may not of bounced back, but the markets clearly have bottomed out and are slowly on the rise.

Seriously, I'm only speaking from my perspective. My wife only works 3 days a week and we've got 2 kids. A mortgage payment and a car payment. To me, Blu-ray is cheap. Dirt cheap!

Do you find it expensive?

i find certain blu-ray movies expensive like anything close to $40. and over

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

i find certain blu-ray movies expensive like anything close to $40. and over

Agreed, but how many blu's are that much?

The most I've paid so far, was $30.99 for Bladerunner. That has 5 versions of the movie so I found it worth it.

I don't think any format could survive today or 10 yrs from now, if the cheap movies were $30.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

With an aging population, you can't rule the Boomers out. That being said, my parents lost quite a bit of money, however they've made back about 20% of their losses in the past 2 months. The economy may not of bounced back, but the markets clearly have bottomed out and are slowly on the rise.

Seriously, I'm only speaking from my perspective. My wife only works 3 days a week and we've got 2 kids. A mortgage payment and a car payment. To me, Blu-ray is cheap. Dirt cheap!

Do you find it expensive?

Yeah, it's hard to really say, because all we can really do is try to look at our own experience and try and get ideas from that.

As for whether I find BDs exepensive: yes and no.

I'll never buy a movie on day one, even if it's my favorite movie. My favorite movie is The Wizard of Oz, and I know there is that ultimate collector's edition up for pre-order now, but I refuse to pay $75 for it. I'll take my chances and hope to find a used version at some point. If I don't find one, oh well.

Of the ~35 BDs I own, I've never paid more than $13 for a single one (I got the 5-disc Blade Runner for $9, just by waiting a while). But even at such a low price, I'm still very stingy with what I buy.

With DVDs I was buying movies left and right, because I had tons of time when I was younger to watch movies, and didn't really care.

Now with BDs I only buy movies that a) I've seen, and b) I really like. And by really like I mean I'd give it an 8/10, which is probably only about 15% of the movies I've seen (I have a spreadsheet with all the movies I've seen in the last 4 years, with all sorts of ratings from various sites, and info about the movie, and random charts and graphs... I'm a nerd)... and considering I try to avoid watching movies that I think will be bad (as in, less than a 6 or 7), it's surprising how few movies I've given an 8+ (I've only given 2 movies a 10, and maybe 6-8 movies a 9).

I do have a weak spot for Pixar and Disney animated movies though, so even if I don't really like them (like Sleeping Beauty and Ratatouille), I'll buy them.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by toefer

Yeah, it's hard to really say, because all we can really do is try to look at our own experience and try and get ideas from that.

As for whether I find BDs exepensive: yes and no.

I'll never buy a movie on day one, even if it's my favorite movie. My favorite movie is The Wizard of Oz, and I know there is that ultimate collector's edition up for pre-order now, but I refuse to pay $75 for it. I'll take my chances and hope to find a used version at some point. If I don't find one, oh well.

Of the ~35 BDs I own, I've never paid more than $13 for a single one (I got the 5-disc Blade Runner for $9, just by waiting a while). But even at such a low price, I'm still very stingy with what I buy.

With DVDs I was buying movies left and right, because I had tons of time when I was younger to watch movies, and didn't really care.

Now with BDs I only buy movies that a) I've seen, and b) I really like. And by really like I mean I'd give it an 8/10, which is probably only about 15% of the movies I've seen (I have a spreadsheet with all the movies I've seen in the last 4 years, with all sorts of ratings from various sites, and info about the movie, and random charts and graphs... I'm a nerd)... and considering I try to avoid watching movies that I think will be bad (as in, less than a 6 or 7), it's surprising how few movies I've given an 8+ (I've only given 2 movies a 10, and maybe 6-8 movies a 9).

I do have a weak spot for Pixar and Disney animated movies though, so even if I don't really like them (like Sleeping Beauty and Ratatouille), I'll buy them.

I'm the same in a lot of ways. My collection is small because even though it is still cheap in my mind, If I don't love it, I don't want it.

Unless of course the kids do. CAMP ROCK RULES!

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

Would you rather of me said, 'For DVD's time it looked good.'? Lets get real here, I was comparing it to the now. Therefore in comparison to whats available now, DVD is very sub-par to Blu-ray.

well even that's not great. was it really a case of "for dvd's time it looked good"? i was under the impression that it was more like "man, dvd's rock. what a great picture and sound." i guess i may be wrong. i just never remember people hating on dvd's so much before.

[Marine Mike]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

well even that's not great. was it really a case of "for dvd's time it looked good"? i was under the impression that it was more like "man, dvd's rock. what a great picture and sound." i guess i may be wrong. i just never remember people hating on dvd's so much before.

It was the general consensus that it was a huge upgrade from VHS from many different aspects of the media.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Luner_Chaos

I think DVD and Blu-Ray will alway coexist as partners untill a new format comes along that ends both of them.

I agree completely. DVD will stay alive until the next format comes around because... right or wrong... many people just don't see enough difference to upgrade. I don't think that Blu-ray will last as long as DVD has because people are HUNGRY for a format that will allow them to have a convenient digital access path to all of their media. They want all their media stored in one digital location so that they can select the film they want to watch from a library shown on their big screen..... and then just hit the play button and go.

Blu-ray could of course go ahead and give us that now by allowing full quality digital copies to be transferred from the disc to our home networks. Internet enabled BR players that we already have in our homes, such as the PS3, would only require a firmware update to provide a catalogue app and give us access to our home network storage. People who are still married to the idea of physical media would have the choice to play directly from disc, and those who crave a more streamlined and convenient digital access path could be accommidated as well. A step like this could prolong the lifespan of BR by years AND speed up it's adoption rate. Many who don't think the AV quality is worth upgrading over may think the convenience factor was.

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

I agree completely. DVD will stay alive until the next format comes around because... right or wrong... many people just don't see enough difference to upgrade. I don't think that Blu-ray will last as long as DVD has because people are HUNGRY for a format that will allow them to have a convenient digital access path to all of their media. They want all their media stored in one digital location so that they can select the film they want to watch from a library shown on their big screen..... and then just hit the play button and go.

Something like that is a very long time off before it would become mainstream. The truth is that Blu-ray is going to dominate the market for a very very long time, and eventually it will put DVD in its grave. And that will probably happen sooner than a lot of people think.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Moviefan1203

Something like that is a very long time off before it would become mainstream. The truth is that Blu-ray is going to dominate the market for a very very long time, and eventually it will put DVD in its grave. And that will probably happen sooner than a lot of people think.

It's already here. Look at Media Center and other such apps. It's so much more elegant and convenient to be able to scroll through your entire library on the big screen, complete with cover pics and descriptions; than it is to walk over to your shelves and pick out a disc. The first format to give us this method of delivery with blu-ray quality, will take over easily and quickly. The technology needed to implement it has already been in place for years and people are hungry for it. The studios' concerns about DRM are the only thing holding it back.

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

It's already here. Look at Media Center and other such apps. It's so much more elegant and convenient to be able to scroll through your entire library on the big screen, complete with cover pics and descriptions; than it is to walk over to your shelves and pick out a disc. The first format to give us this method of delivery with blu-ray quality, will take over easily and quickly. The technology needed to implement it has already been in place for years and people are hungry for it. The studios' concerns about DRM are the only thing holding it back.

I really don't see something like this taking over for physical discs. It might make for a decent niche item, but the public isn't going to go out and embrace it enough to even take much of hit on Blu-ray numbers. Besides studios aren't going to want to touch it. As I said in my previous post, Blu-ray is going to be the dominant format for a very very very long time.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Moviefan1203

I really don't see something like this taking over for physical discs. It might make for a decent niche item, but the public isn't going to go out and embrace it enough to even take much of hit on Blu-ray numbers. Besides studios aren't going to want to touch it. As I said in my previous post, Blu-ray is going to be the dominant format for a very very very long time.

The beauty of blu-ray allowing full quality digital copies is that BOTH types of people get what they want. Those who still like to fondle the physical disc can play their movies directly off the disc. Those who long for a more convenient solution can have that too. Blu-Ray can STAY the dominant format (assuming they do eventually become the dominant format) for much longer if they implement my idea. If not.... they will succumb to whatever format does it first.




Think about it.... it's movie night..... all your friend's are over because you certainly have the best HT among them. What is not only MUCH more convenient.... but also more impressive to your friend's?

"Hey guys.... go crowd around that shelf over there an peruse the tiny, almost unreadable titles on the spines of all my jewel cases, and pick a film out."

OR

All your guests remain seated in their comfy HT seating as the lights dim and your entire catalogue appears on the big screen before them..... complete with easy to see covers and full movie descriptions. They choose a title together.... and you simply highlight it and press play.

The technology is already here. All that we need is a firmware update to the internet enabled BR players that we already have in our homes.


And if you REALLY think about it..... what was one of the HUGE appeals of DVD over VHS? No more fast forward..... no more rewind.... digital skipping around and chapter marking....etc.

A digital access path to your entire catalogue vs storing discs on a shelf will be an even bigger upgrade and advantage.

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by toefer

After reading the beginning of your post, I was going to play the devil's advocate and just argue the other side of everything you said, but then I saw you pretty much showed both sides. I think the biggest things holding BDs back are the price, and the perceived value.

There's nothing wrong with the resolution math up there, but you get to a point where you wonder when/if it matters anymore. If I upgrade from a bicycle to a dirt bike, I go from about 15mph to 60mph or something. But if I upgrade from a dirt bike to a McLaren, I go from 60mph to 250mph. Technically a huge jump, but it doesn't mean I'll ever get to take advantage of driving 250mph on a sidewalk.

So until people have TVs that REALLY benefit from HD, as in anything 46" up, I don't really see a sudden urge to upgrade. I'm not saying you don't notice it on smaller screens, I just think it's not as noticeable, especially if you sit 8 feet away, and/or don't have the greatest vision.

DVD brought a lot of user-friendly upgrades over VHS, which is why I think it killed VHS quicker.

BD seems to bring more tech-ier upgrades, that AV nerds wet their pants about, or some amateur movie watchers, like me, pretend they really understand. But it doesn't offer much for more normal people than "wow, it does look a little better".

The greatest thing about DVD was the idea of never having to rewind movies anymore. Kids being born today will grow up without ever knowing what "Be Kind, Rewind" refers to. I still remember getting my first DVD, and being amazed at how I could skip around to my favorite parts of the movie (well, it was Pee-wee's Big Adventure, so the whole thing was my favorite part), and then when I was done watching it, just put it back in the case, and it was ready to go for next time.

Even though people on this site will throw a fit about it, I think for most people DVD is "good enough", and they see no reason to pay $30 for a BD if they can get the "good enough" DVD for $5-10.

I used to careless buy DVDs because they were so cheap. If there was a good movie I hadn't seen, I'd just go buy it if it was on sale, since it was just as cheap as renting it. For a while during college I think I was buying a new DVD or two every week. I looked forward to Sunday mornings to check what movies were in the $5 bins at Best Buy and Circuit City.

Now with BD I'm much more selective, and of the ~32 BDs I own, there are only 7 or so that I hadn't seen until I got them on BD. Of those 7, I got 4 as part of a free special offer (the four Die Hard movies), and 3 were gifts (Casino, Chronicles of Narnia: LWWd, and Baraka).

I meant to get back to you on this, but got caught up in some birthday BBQ shenanigans. I think there could be just about any topic on the table for discussion, and you and I could wax philosophical for hours! Good times!

I think you're right on the money with the points you made about what the digital experience brought us vs. analog of VHS with the no more rewinding, chapter skipping, menus and such. That was such a huge improvement to movie watching; it often goes unmentioned these days, but imagine a movie without that option. Every once in a while, I joke around and say "don't forget to rewind" when we're done watching a disc. The kids don't really get it.

Also of note was that, yeah, most people (I think we can still say "most people" even in this day and age) do not have an HDTV, let alone a 50" HDTV. It can be argued endlessly that the sound you get from a Blu-ray is more of an upgrade over DVD than the video, but in my personal experience, the order/importance of "the average" TV-watcher goes like this:

Nice picture (i.e. good brand of television)
Large picture (i.e. the bigger the better)
Good sound (i.e. a nice surround sound setup)

You might even argue that you could put "has enough inputs for all my stuff" before good sound.

I would say "most people" (used in the same context as before) don't even have a decent surround sound setup with their television; at the very least, these people do not have a receiver that can decode and output the high-end audio that a Blu-ray will give it. Then there's the issue of the speakers...

So if you're not utilizing the sound of a Blu-ray, that leaves the judgment of the consumer almost solely in what they perceive in the video output. If you're talking about the average joe (at this point) who doesn't have HDTV — or more specifically a large HDTV — then you're just not going to get people buying into the format too quickly.

The best way to set up a comparison or demonstration of how a DVD looks vs. how a Blu-ray looks would be to have two identical TVs playing the same movie, only one is DVD being played through component (or better yet, composite ) and the other is Blu-ray on HDMI. If B&Ms wanted to move these units and titles at a faster rate, they'd have more setups like this. How much selling power would you have if you were to say "see how this looks on this TV when compared to the other? The difference is obvious." You'd have the upper-hand/expert opinion (e.g. "you can't see that? You must be blind" which even though sounds rude, that kind of persuasion tactic leads to sales), as well as "proof" for the skeptic since the video will be right there for them to see. The problem (or more like one of the problems) is that people just don't have that luxury. They buy a $2000+ HDTV, but still use their DVD player and are somehow still blown away — mostly due to the fact that the picture is simply larger; leaving out completely the fact that it's as grainy and unsharp as $hit.

Take into consideration that the studios will eventually begin to not have DVDs more readily available and will have the Blu-ray format forced on us, that is going to be a huge step in making the switch. The crappy thing is DVDs are just too cheap to buy right now and not enough people can see/hear enough of a difference to make that leap.

I mentioned one friend in my first post who has the killer HDTV and yet still uses DVD. I actually have other people in my circle who are the exact same way: my uncle and a few other good buddies. They say DVDs are "good enough." I don't really force the issue too much with my uncle (out of respect mostly), but I let my buddies know that they're being kind of blind to the benefits, especially with TVs of their size and quality. I have to walk a fine line sometimes, though, because I can come across as over-evangelical or even condescending ("Pssh. You don't have a Blu-ray player yet?!")

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

I agree completely. DVD will stay alive until the next format comes around because... right or wrong... many people just don't see enough difference to upgrade. I don't think that Blu-ray will last as long as DVD has because people are HUNGRY for a format that will allow them to have a convenient digital access path to all of their media. They want all their media stored in one digital location so that they can select the film they want to watch from a library shown on their big screen..... and then just hit the play button and go.

Blu-ray could of course go ahead and give us that now by allowing full quality digital copies to be transferred from the disc to our home networks. Internet enabled BR players that we already have in our homes, such as the PS3, would only require a firmware update to provide a catalogue app and give us access to our home network storage. People who are still married to the idea of physical media would have the choice to play directly from disc, and those who crave a more streamlined and convenient digital access path could be accommidated as well. A step like this could prolong the lifespan of BR by years AND speed up it's adoption rate. Many who don't think the AV quality is worth upgrading over may think the convenience factor was.

Originally Posted by robinandtami

The beauty of blu-ray allowing full quality digital copies is that BOTH types of people get what they want. Those who still like to fondle the physical disc can play their movies directly off the disc. Those who long for a more convenient solution can have that too. Blu-Ray can STAY the dominant format (assuming they do eventually become the dominant format) for much longer if they implement my idea. If not.... they will succumb to whatever format does it first.

Think about it.... it's movie night..... all your friend's are over because you certainly have the best HT among them. What is not only MUCH more convenient.... but also more impressive to your friend's?

"Hey guys.... go crowd around that shelf over there an peruse the tiny, almost unreadable titles on the spines of all my jewel cases, and pick a film out."

OR

All your guests remain seated in their comfy HT seating as the lights dim and your entire catalogue appears on the big screen before them..... complete with easy to see covers and full movie descriptions. They choose a title together.... and you simply highlight it and press play.

The technology is already here. All that we need is a firmware update to the internet enabled BR players that we already have in our homes.

I like the way you pitch/sell this idea. I agree that this would be better than simply having the disc by itself. I also kind of think, however, that something like this will take a while to implement into mainstream not because it's a complicated thing or that it takes too much horsepower for a computer/media center to accomplish, but that there are still too many people who aren't tech-savvy enough to "get" how that all works. I could only imagine my mother trying to make this happen, and that's saying something because she works for our local County/courthouse in the department that maintains every computer in the entire county for its employees. She just doesn't get a lot of this techy stuff. She has what I like to call "teacheritis" which is a term I coined in or around second grade when I'd watch teachers fumble to get VHS tapes to play on the TV.

Originally Posted by robinandtami

It's already here. Look at Media Center and other such apps. It's so much more elegant and convenient to be able to scroll through your entire library on the big screen, complete with cover pics and descriptions; than it is to walk over to your shelves and pick out a disc. The first format to give us this method of delivery with blu-ray quality, will take over easily and quickly. The technology needed to implement it has already been in place for years and people are hungry for it. The studios' concerns about DRM are the only thing holding it back.

It is way more elegant, and if we could get this going, I'd be on board in a heartbeat. My setup is already kind of like that (I have many of my DVDs copied onto my server, but I don't have Media Center Windows so they're all just in a directory), and it's really cool. I also have this sweet application called Intelliremote that allows me to use a USB IR receiver that's hooked up to my PC with my Harmony One remote. That is a sweet feature.

The hang-up in the move to this is simply going to be the people who don't understand the technology (as well as the DRM thing like you mentioned, but I'm sure that'll get worked out before those afflicted by teacheritis are gone).

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by brettallica

I like the way you pitch/sell this idea. I agree that this would be better than simply having the disc by itself. I also kind of think, however, that something like this will take a while to implement into mainstream not because it's a complicated thing or that it takes too much horsepower for a computer/media center to accomplish, but that there are still too many people who aren't tech-savvy enough to "get" how that all works. I could only imagine my mother trying to make this happen, and that's saying something because she works for our local County/courthouse in the department that maintains every computer in the entire county for its employees. She just doesn't get a lot of this techy stuff. She has what I like to call "teacheritis" which is a term I coined in or around second grade when I'd watch teachers fumble to get VHS tapes to play on the TV.

It is way more elegant, and if we could get this going, I'd be on board in a heartbeat. My setup is already kind of like that (I have many of my DVDs copied onto my server, but I don't have Media Center Windows so they're all just in a directory), and it's really cool. I also have this sweet application called Intelliremote that allows me to use a USB IR receiver that's hooked up to my PC with my Harmony One remote. That is a sweet feature.

The hang-up in the move to this is simply going to be the people who don't understand the technology (as well as the DRM thing like you mentioned, but I'm sure that'll get worked out before those afflicted by teacheritis are gone).

The way I envision it... when you put a disc in... if it isn't already copied over.... you get an option to play from disc or install digital copy. Those who don't feel tech savy enough to set up a network drive can still just play the movie direct from the disc. Or they can even add an option to never ask to install and always play directly from disc.

It really would be a way for Blu-Ray to satisfy BOTH those people who still like physical media AND those who want digital access to their media. It's a win win all around. When the day comes (and it will come eventually) where internet download and streaming speeds are able to deliver media at a quality that is competitive to blu-ray.... people won't be so quick to jump blu-ray ship if blu-ray has long ago provided them with one of the main attractions that downloadable media offers... convenient digital storage and access path. Many will even prefer the added security of knowing that they still have the physical disc on hand if something should ever go wrong with their storage.


DRM would be the only issue... but they are satisfied enough with current DRM to offer SD digital copies and HD downloadable movies via PSN and XBL.... so why not just go one step further and offer us full 1080P video and lossless audio digital copies?

My opinion is that if Blu-Ray does not do this... they will not last nearly as long as they could have.

[Anthony P]

As someone else pointed out, all BD players can play DVDs. So one reason VHS might have died out, among others, is people were tired of having two things hooked up to their TV, and took their VHS player down.

actually it is the other way around. People that did not want (or could not have) two players opted to stick with VHS for longer, which slowed DVD growth. If they had both (even as separate units) it is most likely that they felt they needed the VHS (maybe to record, maybe to watch home movies, maybe for their VHS collection) chances are that new content they bought after the DVD player was on DVD, so if it was connected it was for content they already had which would not count.

That is the difference now VHS held DVD back, there is nothing to hold BD back (in the same way)

[[1080-p]]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Agreed, but how many blu's are that much?

The most I've paid so far, was $30.99 for Bladerunner. That has 5 versions of the movie so I found it worth it.

I don't think any format could survive today or 10 yrs from now, if the cheap movies were $30.

well look at the trilogy star trek original tv show and movies
http://www.bluraywire.com/2009/02/page/2/

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....A%3E1900-01-01