What are your thoughts on DVD/Blu-Ray?

[Luner_Chaos]

When DVD was released VHS died out pretty fast...
Do you think the same will happen to DVD because of Blu-ray?

My thoughts:

I don't see Blu-Ray becoming the main format anytime soon. I think DVD and Blu-Ray will alway coexist as partners untill a new format comes along that ends both of them.

What do you think?

[SkillzthatKillz]

DVD will eventually be replaced by Blu-ray just because the industry will slowly phase it out...i don't think it'll happen as quickly as the transition from VHS to DVD though

[Mr.White]

If it happens it will take a long time if at all because DVD's are backwards compatible(and cheap to make) with Blu Ray players(VHS and DVD's were 2 totally different types of media),I've got a lot of DVD's that I'm perfectly happy with and feel no need to upgrade,since they look even better upcoverted!!! Do you think we'll ever bargain racks of Blu's at our local supermarkets(like 3.99 to 9.99 releases brand new like we see w/ standard dvd's now),it'll take a long time,if at all!

[Anthony P]

When DVD was released VHS died out pretty fast...
Do you think the same will happen to DVD because of Blu-ray?

It depends what pretty fast means. But in the end BD is doing around as well as DVD was doing at the same point in its life.

[brettallica]

It is going to happen, and for a ton of reasons.

I hate sloughing you off and saying "use the search function" because that can come across as rude, so I'll entertain this a bit. Plus, I enjoy talking about it anyway.

The difference between Blu-ray and DVD when using video as a comparison is stunning.

Resolutions of a few common formats (pertinent to this discussion):
VHS: 330×480
Super VHS, LaserDisc: 560×480
Widescreen DVD: 720×480
Blu-ray: 1920×1080

So if you take the absolute best pixel count of VHS (Super VHS has 158400) and compare it with the same in DVD (345600 pixels), DVD has about twice the number of pixels as VHS. Factor in Blu-ray's pixel count (2073600) and compare it to DVD, Blu-ray has six times the pixels!!! That's a huge difference, and it's why gigantic TVs can play movies now at super-clarity. This will never happen when using a DVD, even on the best upscaling players. DVDs simply can't compete when it comes to the picture. The same can be said of audio, but I'll leave that to someone else.

The flip side of the VHS to DVD to Blu-ray argument is that VHS tapes degrade, so the chances are pretty great that when you first watched a DVD after being used to VHS, you were watching a worn-out VHS on a VCR with dirty heads, while comparing that to a DVD that relies on a laser and is digital. The difference will be "more apparent" in that situation, but in reality you're not comparing apples to apples. A clean/new VHS tape and the best VCR can match-up quite well with DVD, if the equipment is right.

Then you have the computer side of things. Currently, Blu-ray discs are commonly found in 50GB capacity — commonly. The max capacity at this point for DVDs is 17GB if I'm not mistaken. So right off the bat, you've got a capacity difference of three times in favor of Blu. In the coming years, you're going to see wallet-friendly 10-layer Blu-ray discs that have 250GB storage. This is going to do wonders for backing-up data; I mean you could quite possibly back up an entire system with only a few discs. Try that with a DVD; it won't happen.

Granted, this will take some time, as many people do not have TVs that truly show the greatness of the Blu format, among other factors. At this point, DVD players can be had for under $100, and they boast "near-HD" quality picture. This is very confusing to customers. The customers think "oh, well it's pretty much HD, so I don't need to buy a Blu-ray player." Then time goes on, and these people think "I just bought a DVD player, so I don't need to buy another player." It's kind of a vicious cycle. Then you've got the fact that since Blu-ray is the new, hot format, DVDs can be purchased for pennies, much like was the case during the VHS-to-DVD transition. But when you think about what I mentioned above in that many VHS/DVD comparisons weren't fairly set up, you're going to see people who still buy DVDs. I have a friend who actually has a huge HDTV, who just bought an upscaling DVD player, and is hell-bent on buying tons of DVDs now because "they're just so cheap, and they're good enough for [me]." Then why in the heck did you buy an HDTV if standard definition was "good enough"? It just doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, the cost of Blu-ray players will come down (they already are — I saw one at Radio Shack for $139 the other day), and when they do you're going to see more people making the switch. Combine that with the fact that computers will *eventually* come standard with Blu-ray drives, and the format will be forced on us...which if you ask me is for the better.

[Marine Mike]

One of my thoughts about DVD/Blu-ray is that Blu-rays look and sound really good while DVDs do not.

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

One of my thoughts about DVD/Blu-ray is that Blu-rays look and sound really good while DVDs do not.

well said mike!!

[toef]

Originally Posted by brettallica

So if you take the absolute best pixel count of VHS (Super VHS has 158400) and compare it with the same in DVD (345600 pixels), DVD has about twice the number of pixels as VHS. Factor in Blu-ray's pixel count (2073600) and compare it to DVD, Blu-ray has six times the pixels!!! That's a huge difference, and it's why gigantic TVs can play movies now at super-clarity. This will never happen when using a DVD, even on the best upscaling players. DVDs simply can't compete when it comes to the picture. The same can be said of audio, but I'll leave that to someone else.

The flip side of the VHS to DVD to Blu-ray argument is that VHS tapes degrade, so the chances are pretty great that when you first watched a DVD after being used to VHS, you were watching a worn-out VHS on a VCR with dirty heads, while comparing that to a DVD that relies on a laser and is digital. The difference will be "more apparent" in that situation, but in reality you're not comparing apples to apples. A clean/new VHS tape and the best VCR can match-up quite well with DVD, if the equipment is right.

Then you have the computer side of things. Currently, Blu-ray discs are commonly found in 50GB capacity — commonly. The max capacity at this point for DVDs is 17GB if I'm not mistaken. So right off the bat, you've got a capacity difference of three times in favor of Blu. In the coming years, you're going to see wallet-friendly 10-layer Blu-ray discs that have 250GB storage. This is going to do wonders for backing-up data; I mean you could quite possibly back up an entire system with only a few discs. Try that with a DVD; it won't happen.

Granted, this will take some time, as many people do not have TVs that truly show the greatness of the Blu format, among other factors. At this point, DVD players can be had for under $100, and they boast "near-HD" quality picture. This is very confusing to customers. The customers think "oh, well it's pretty much HD, so I don't need to buy a Blu-ray player." Then time goes on, and these people think "I just bought a DVD player, so I don't need to buy another player." It's kind of a vicious cycle. Then you've got the fact that since Blu-ray is the new, hot format, DVDs can be purchased for pennies, much like was the case during the VHS-to-DVD transition. But when you think about what I mentioned above in that many VHS/DVD comparisons weren't fairly set up, you're going to see people who still buy DVDs. I have a friend who actually has a huge HDTV, who just bought an upscaling DVD player, and is hell-bent on buying tons of DVDs now because "they're just so cheap, and they're good enough for [me]." Then why in the heck did you buy an HDTV if standard definition was "good enough"? It just doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, the cost of Blu-ray players will come down (they already are — I saw one at Radio Shack for $139 the other day), and when they do you're going to see more people making the switch. Combine that with the fact that computers will *eventually* come standard with Blu-ray drives, and the format will be forced on us...which if you ask me is for the better.

After reading the beginning of your post, I was going to play the devil's advocate and just argue the other side of everything you said, but then I saw you pretty much showed both sides. I think the biggest things holding BDs back are the price, and the perceived value.

There's nothing wrong with the resolution math up there, but you get to a point where you wonder when/if it matters anymore. If I upgrade from a bicycle to a dirt bike, I go from about 15mph to 60mph or something. But if I upgrade from a dirt bike to a McLaren, I go from 60mph to 250mph. Technically a huge jump, but it doesn't mean I'll ever get to take advantage of driving 250mph on a sidewalk.

So until people have TVs that REALLY benefit from HD, as in anything 46" up, I don't really see a sudden urge to upgrade. I'm not saying you don't notice it on smaller screens, I just think it's not as noticeable, especially if you sit 8 feet away, and/or don't have the greatest vision.

DVD brought a lot of user-friendly upgrades over VHS, which is why I think it killed VHS quicker.

BD seems to bring more tech-ier upgrades, that AV nerds wet their pants about, or some amateur movie watchers, like me, pretend they really understand. But it doesn't offer much for more normal people than "wow, it does look a little better".

The greatest thing about DVD was the idea of never having to rewind movies anymore. Kids being born today will grow up without ever knowing what "Be Kind, Rewind" refers to. I still remember getting my first DVD, and being amazed at how I could skip around to my favorite parts of the movie (well, it was Pee-wee's Big Adventure, so the whole thing was my favorite part), and then when I was done watching it, just put it back in the case, and it was ready to go for next time.

Even though people on this site will throw a fit about it, I think for most people DVD is "good enough", and they see no reason to pay $30 for a BD if they can get the "good enough" DVD for $5-10.

I used to careless buy DVDs because they were so cheap. If there was a good movie I hadn't seen, I'd just go buy it if it was on sale, since it was just as cheap as renting it. For a while during college I think I was buying a new DVD or two every week. I looked forward to Sunday mornings to check what movies were in the $5 bins at Best Buy and Circuit City.

Now with BD I'm much more selective, and of the ~32 BDs I own, there are only 7 or so that I hadn't seen until I got them on BD. Of those 7, I got 4 as part of a free special offer (the four Die Hard movies), and 3 were gifts (Casino, Chronicles of Narnia: LWWd, and Baraka).

[Grumpz]

I feel it's going to be a lot quicker than then the VHS to DVD transition.

I'm blown away at the fact that my parents and in-laws both have HD TV's, subscribe to HD channles and have Blu-ray players. When I walk the through BB or Futureshop, I see people of all ages buying LCD's and Plasma's.

But what's even more amazing is the heads that turn on people that normally don't notice PQ or care. My wife couldn't care less about PQ, now she won't watch SD channels.

My inlaws have a 720p HD rear projection TV that's 3 yrs old, until they saw my TV, they had never subscribed to HD TV. They couldn't be bothered they said. That changed when my father in law watched Blade Runner on Blu.

My parents actually bought there XBR before I bought my first flat panel.

The PQ on HD content is so much better than SD that Stevie Wonder just bought a 60" LCD! It's true!

And for all the people who think the Blu-ray price point is a problem, think again. The first VHS player my parents bought was $1000 bucks...that was close to 30 yrs ago and you couldn't even buy movies. The first DVD player I bought was an Onkyo and it was damn good machine. I paid $400 bucks for it, 10 yrs ago and new release to buy were over $25 bucks. So relavtively speaking, $200 dollars for a standalone Blu-ray player and approx $25 for a new Blu is actually cheap.

Coles notes version...in adjusted dollars for inflation, Blu-ray players and movies are way cheaper than any other format we've seen...and rediculously better.

[OrlandoEastwood]

VHS didn't officially die until 2006, sure most companies dropped VHS around 2004/2005 but that was 8 years after DVD came out and when it officially died, we had Blu-Rayand HD-DVD.

[Chevypower]

Once you have seen true Super HD 2160x3840, Blu-ray starts to look a bit ordinary too. It will eventually be replaced by something else. When DVD came along, everyone thought it was crystal clear. Perception always changes with new technology.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by Chevypower

Once you have seen true Super HD 2160x3840, Blu-ray starts to look a bit ordinary too. It will eventually be replaced by something else. When DVD came along, everyone thought it was crystal clear. Perception always changes with new technology.

On a 52" screen I can see the pores on a dudes face. Are you saying I'll be able to see a pore inside a pore?

[toef]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

I feel it's going to be a lot quicker than then the VHS to DVD transition.

I'm blown away at the fact that my parents and in-laws both have HD TV's, subscribe to HD channles and have Blu-ray players. When I walk the through BB or Futureshop, I see people of all ages buying LCD's and Plasma's.

And for all the people who think the Blu-ray price point is a problem, think again. The first VHS player my parents bought was $1000 bucks...that was close to 30 yrs ago and you couldn't even buy movies. The first DVD player I bought was an Onkyo and it was damn good machine. I paid $400 bucks for it, 10 yrs ago and new release to buy were over $25 bucks. So relavtively speaking, $200 dollars for a standalone Blu-ray player and approx $25 for a new Blu is actually cheap.

Coles notes version...in adjusted dollars for inflation, Blu-ray players and movies are way cheaper than any other format we've seen...and rediculously better.

I think you can't take examples from VHS to DVD and assume they'll be similar this time around.

As someone else pointed out, all BD players can play DVDs. So one reason VHS might have died out, among others, is people were tired of having two things hooked up to their TV, and took their VHS player down. Unless they were one of those people who waited and got one of those VHS/DVD combo units. As long as they have their cool little BD player hooked up, they can always watch DVDs.

The people who bought $1,000 VHS players were a very select group of people. They probaby bought Laserdisc players, and listen to vinyl records still. They're certainly a much smaller group than the people who casually buy DVDs. And as long as those people exist, DVDs will keep going strong.

And, again, VHS and DVD had more noticeable differences, that maybe people could convince themselves they were worth buying.

Before the $1,000 VHS player, how did you watch movies at home? You didn't... unless a movie you wanted to watch was on TV, and you were home to watch it when it aired. So here were these expensive VHS/Beta players, which promised the idea of being able to watch movies in your house whenever you wanted. Even if you couldn't own them, you could go rent them from a store. That's a big change.

With a DVD player you had better picture, better sound, and they didn't degrade over time like VHS did. You could easily fast forward and rewind, or just back and forth all over a movie. And they weren't absurdly large like Laserdiscs. DVD players fairly quickly became standard on computers and laptops, and now you could take movies wherever you go. BD players in computers (especially Apple computers ) and in cars, or wherever else, are still fairly uncommon, all these years later.

I had a DVD-burner by late 99/early 2000. BD-burners are still incredibly rare, and blank BD-r's are very expensive (~$300 for a 25 pack of name-brand, $3+/disc for non-name-brand).

Even if BD players and movies cost roughly the same today as DVD players did when they were relatively new (BD is coming up on it's 3rd birthday in a month or two), that's to be expected. As technology gets better, we should be getting better stuff for the same amount of money. There are clearly plenty of people who don't think Blu-ray is better enough, and don't buy it. Sure, DVDs may have cost $25 10 years ago, but they're $5 now, so the choice is between a $5 DVD version or a $25 version Blu-ray.

The only differences are the quality of the picture and audio, and that may not be worth paying 5x more to some people, especially in the cases where you can hardly notice a difference (look up all the 1-2 star PQ reviews on this site). DVD offered relatively more of an upgrade from a VHS, beyond just audio and visual. BD adds menus that appear during a movie... wow. I always hated on DVDs how I had to stop the movie to go back to the menu. What exactly is the point of digging through a menu while a movie is playing anyway?

Sure, BD sales might be doing just as well as DVD did at this point in its life-cycle, but I bet that DVDs are still doing A LOT better than VHS was doing at this point.

I'm sure BD will replace DVD at some point, but not any time soon. Until then I'll stick to just getting BDs when it's a huge upgrade over a DVD (like Blade Runner) and stick to DVDs when I just want to see a movie, and it happens to be cheap, and/or it's not on BD, and/or it's not much of an upgrade.

[Grumpz]

Baby boomers have a lot of money to spend.

Blu-ray will outsell DVD in less than 3 yrs.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Baby boomers have a lot of money to spend.

Blu-ray will outsell DVD in less than 3 yrs.

A lot of baby boomers lost a lot of their retirement savings in the last year, and probably don't have Blu-ray's high on their list of things to spend their retirement money on.

My parents are well-off, own 3 houses and could've retired already if they wanted to (they're on the young end of the baby boomer generation), but neither could care less about BD. The only DVDs my dad owns are ones I gave him for Christmas over the years (LotR, James Bond, Babylon 5, and some other random stuff).

There are obviously exceptions, but for the most part I think the success of Blu-ray is in the hands of younger people (18-35). Old enough to have a job to buy them, and young enough that they grew up in the days when buying/owning movies was a normal thing.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by toefer

A lot of baby boomers lost a lot of their retirement savings in the last year, and probably don't have Blu-ray's high on their list of things to spend their retirement money on.

My parents are well-off, own 3 houses and could've retired already if they wanted to (they're on the young end of the baby boomer generation), but neither could care less about BD. The only DVDs my dad owns are ones I gave him for Christmas over the years (LotR, James Bond, Babylon 5, and some other random stuff).

There are obviously exceptions, but for the most part I think the success of Blu-ray is in the hands of younger people (18-35). Old enough to have a job to buy them, and young enough that they grew up in the days when buying/owning movies was a normal thing.

With an aging population, you can't rule the Boomers out. That being said, my parents lost quite a bit of money, however they've made back about 20% of their losses in the past 2 months. The economy may not of bounced back, but the markets clearly have bottomed out and are slowly on the rise.

Seriously, I'm only speaking from my perspective. My wife only works 3 days a week and we've got 2 kids. A mortgage payment and a car payment. To me, Blu-ray is cheap. Dirt cheap!

Do you find it expensive?

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

One of my thoughts about DVD/Blu-ray is that Blu-rays look and sound really good while DVDs do not.

i always found this argument odd. it's like overnight all of a sudden dvd's became shitty. when before they were hailed and loved by all. we are a finicky bunch aren't we?

[[1080-p]]

Originally Posted by Luner_Chaos

When DVD was released VHS died out pretty fast...
Do you think the same will happen to DVD because of Blu-ray?

My thoughts:

I don't see Blu-Ray becoming the main format anytime soon. I think DVD and Blu-Ray will alway coexist as partners untill a new format comes along that ends both of them.

What do you think?

well they keep making 3 disc sets so dvd won't die and they can save room on shelves buy doing that having dvd-blu-ray-with digital copy

[Teabaggins]

it's like having driven nothing except a saturn for years and then for a week or so you drive a new mercedes...it's difficult going back to the saturn

[Batman1980]

At one point I had over 500 movies on DVD, now I doubt I have 200. I've been selling them like crazy for the last 4-5 months. Still waiting to sell the ones without a confirmed or current blu-ray release in or before 2009.