A question for Anime Fans

[Spiderbri]

Hey all,

I consider myself a big fan of anime, I own the classics like Akira and Ghost in the shell, but I love lesser known ones like Blue Sub #6 and Ergo Proxy. Outlaw Star and Fullmetal Alchemist being my two favorites.

However as with most of my hobbies I don't get too hardcore. I love comic books and can tell you all about storylines, villains backgrounds, heroes origins, etc. But I don't know issue numbers or artist/writers.

So my question about anime is what makes the english dubs so hated? I don't understand Japanese, and while I don't mind watching movies/shows with subtitles the fact remains that while you are busy reading you miss the action and subtle things being shown.

And yet everyone...I was about to type "cries" but that is to insulting which I am not trying to be ..everyone is vocal about how they won't buy if there isn't original Japanese dialogue/soundtrack/subtitles. Why?

I understand that things can get lost in translationg, that makes sense, yet if they are lost vocally they will be lost in the subtitles too. Won't they?

Like I said I really love anime and cartoons in general, but I know that if I were to say something in some of these forums I'd get roasted and insulted because I "don't know what I'm talking about" or I'm "not a real fan" similar to how I must be stupid because I hate grain and don't see it as some brilliant artistic expression

thoughts?

[deckardp]

I think that with most dubbed movies the voice acting lacks some of the subtlety and emotion that is there with the original casting. That's my take on it. Some people may only want the original because they are purists. Don't know. Interesting question though.

[Kyo28]

Lately I don't have so much time anymore to watch anime and I must admit not having seen a lot of 'dubbed' anime. A few things that bothered me in such dubs are:

- some connotations get lost in the translation, simply because it's a concept that doesn't exist in western languages. You lose that too with subtitles, but at least with subtitles, you still hear the original lines and can pick up that nuance that's lost in the translation

- most western voice actors aren't as good as Japanese ones, especially the 'classic' Japanes voice actors (the newer generation in Japan also isn't so good, IMHO). I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel it is

- Some western voice actors are miscast. I once saw an episode of Saint Seiya in French. Andromeda no Shun was voice by a French landy whereas he's actually male (although androgyneous). In Japan, he had the voice of an effiminated man, which was perfect for the character.

- In most cases, western voice actors simply can't put the same emotion in their voice as the original voice actor did, which gives a different feel to the character or in worst case even the whole series or OAV.

- First viewings of anime is was/is always in Japanese in my case. You immediately identify a certain character with a certain voice. As such, it feels odd to me to all of a sudden hear another voice with that character.


Basically, seeing anime dubbed in English comes over as comically as would a Chinese dubbed Kung Fu movie to most ... it just seems ridiculous.

Well, that's just my opinion and I'm sure other members have different views on this. In the end, it's a matter of personal taste, your understanding of Japanese, your background, etc. I woudln't insult someone for liking English dubs, because it's their choice. But if you ask my opinion, I can't stand them.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Spiderbri

Hey all,

I consider myself a big fan of anime, I own the classics like Akira and Ghost in the shell, but I love lesser known ones like Blue Sub #6 and Ergo Proxy. Outlaw Star and Fullmetal Alchemist being my two favorites.

However as with most of my hobbies I don't get too hardcore. I love comic books and can tell you all about storylines, villains backgrounds, heroes origins, etc. But I don't know issue numbers or artist/writers.

So my question about anime is what makes the english dubs so hated? I don't understand Japanese, and while I don't mind watching movies/shows with subtitles the fact remains that while you are busy reading you miss the action and subtle things being shown.

And yet everyone...I was about to type "cries" but that is to insulting which I am not trying to be ..everyone is vocal about how they won't buy if there isn't original Japanese dialogue/soundtrack/subtitles. Why?

I understand that things can get lost in translationg, that makes sense, yet if they are lost vocally they will be lost in the subtitles too. Won't they?

Like I said I really love anime and cartoons in general, but I know that if I were to say something in some of these forums I'd get roasted and insulted because I "don't know what I'm talking about" or I'm "not a real fan" similar to how I must be stupid because I hate grain and don't see it as some brilliant artistic expression

thoughts?

Well it's basically like the American voice actors don't sound as great as the original Japanese dub. Or there are reasons like they changed the names, chnaged the script, and like so many reasons why anime fans complain about English dubs. I'm one of the ones who like English dubs but will listen to Japanese if I have to like Clannad or some of the other anime series that are now coming to America since most of them don't include English audio unless it's from Funimation. But there is so many reasons that I could think of but would take forever to post them all. But basically it's with the dubbing process with the actors, directors, and writers but the way things are right now I wish people would leave them alone because after all English dub actors are having a hard enough time to get a job if most of the anime that's coming to America is subbed only and also the fact that a lot of English dub anime companies are going under as well do to reasons like people downloading anime off of the internet for free, and stuff like that. Even some video games are starting to go with Japanese audio only in America.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Kyo28

Lately I don't have so much time anymore to watch anime and I must admit not having seen a lot of 'dubbed' anime. A few things that bothered me in such dubs are:

- some connotations get lost in the translation, simply because it's a concept that doesn't exist in western languages. You lose that too with subtitles, but at least with subtitles, you still hear the original lines and can pick up that nuance that's lost in the translation

- most western voice actors aren't as good as Japanese ones, especially the 'classic' Japanes voice actors (the newer generation in Japan also isn't so good, IMHO). I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel it is

- Some western voice actors are miscast. I once saw an episode of Saint Seiya in French. Andromeda no Shun was voice by a French landy whereas he's actually male (although androgyneous). In Japan, he had the voice of an effiminated man, which was perfect for the character.

- In most cases, western voice actors simply can't put the same emotion in their voice as the original voice actor did, which gives a different feel to the character or in worst case even the whole series or OAV.

- First viewings of anime is was/is always in Japanese in my case. You immediately identify a certain character with a certain voice. As such, it feels odd to me to all of a sudden hear another voice with that character.


Basically, seeing anime dubbed in English comes over as comically as would a Chinese dubbed Kung Fu movie to most ... it just seems ridiculous.

Well, that's just my opinion and I'm sure other members have different views on this.

To me using examples like a live action kung fu movie is a bad example. Live action dubbing over anything animated cartoons or anime are like 2 different things.

[P@t_Mtl]

I can't speak for everyone but for me.

I started watching anime in the 70's as a kid. All of it was in French as I did not learn English until highschool in the 1980. By the time I got into highschool I started to see that something is lost in the translation (dubbing) of movies. Most of the movies I saw in the 70's as a kid were translated. One example is Sound Of Music, if you could hear the terrible hack job that was done in the traduction of the songs, you would probably want to rip your ears off. From that moment on I started to watch more and more the movies in OV with sub. I got use to it now to the point where I can't even start to think watching something in dub. I still go to theater to see must movies in French dubbing unfortunatly. Most of the time my good friend come's with me but his wife doesn's speak much English and so it's just easier for her with dubbing. Most theaters here don't go for sub.

I just feel that the anime is more interesting with the Japanese voices it seem for me too keep more of its original feel then with a dubbing.

[Spiderbri]

Some good points so far. I totally agree with the idea if they are rewriting the script that is unacceptable. Though I would never know and probably have some that are changed.

But as for better voice actors, once again if you don't speak Japanese then how does it matter? I get that you can hear the general emotion but without understanding the language you won't get a lot of the nuances. I mean a softly spoken "Perhaps" can have lots of different meanings behind it with the acting and the word within context of what is going on. But if you don't know it was "Perhaps" then you miss out. And if you are reading subtitles then it's hard to know what word goes with what spoken word.

Heck I just finished watching Heroes season 3 on DVD, the Hiro/Ando parts are almost always in Japanese. But you can clearly tell the flow of speach is different, because of when they say a word like Batman it is the last word in the subtitle yet it is first when being spoken. Or vice versa.

I don't know. I'm just not sure how someone that doesn't speak the language can enjoy it more as a "purist". Seems more egotistical to a degree. Like a music snob that only listens to bands no one has ever heard of and when you mention something mainstream like Linkin Park they look down thier nose at you.

Not trying to insult anyone. I'm just stating my feelings. Still looking forward to hearing other peoples reasons.

[iori]

I like to watch with the original voice cast because of most of the reason already stated, usually better voice acting. Sometimes I get lazy though and watch with a dub.

[mikejet]

Everything Kyo28 posted.

[Batman1980]

The way I put it is it was intended to be in Japanese, so dubbing it in English is kind of like DNRing grain on a blu-ray.

[Deadset]

Originally Posted by Spiderbri

I understand that things can get lost in translationg, that makes sense, yet if they are lost vocally they will be lost in the subtitles too. Won't they?

It's not that we don't like them in english. Voice overs can be done well, very well, just look at cowboy bebop. But most are horrid, the voice actors practically ruin certain anime films.

Look at Ghost in the Shell (1995). Watch the movie with voice overs, then watch the movie with subtitles. With subtitles the movie is extremely better.

Cowboy Bebop is probably the only exception that I know of. I'm sure there are others, but when I watch anime like, wicked city, golgo 13, ninja scroll and others, I tend to watch them with subtitles. The tone of the voices and the text is much better than any voice over.

[Kyo28]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

To me using examples like a live action kung fu movie is a bad example. Live action dubbing over anything animated cartoons or anime are like 2 different things.

I don't know. Both sound just as silly to me. I've bought one of the DBZ movie Blu-rays from the US and just for the heck of it tried the English track out.
It's a pretty big shock hearing Vegeta address Trunks with : "Shut up you little brat" or something along those lines, with a thick american accent, when you're used to Ryou Horikawa's voice

Originally Posted by Spiderbri

Heck I just finished watching Heroes season 3 on DVD, the Hiro/Ando parts are almost always in Japanese. But you can clearly tell the flow of speach is different, because of when they say a word like Batman it is the last word in the subtitle yet it is first when being spoken. Or vice versa.

Speaking of which, I love how they've cast Masi Oka in Heroes but Ando's lines always stick out like a sore thumb. His Korean accent really sticks out every time he speaks Japanese. I wish they had cast another Japanese actor for Ando.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by JHM

I like to watch with the original voice cast because of most of the reason already stated, usually better voice acting. Sometimes I get lazy though and watch with a dub.

Everytime I hear Jackie Chan voice in French dubbing I want to cry

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by JHM

I like to watch with the original voice cast because of most of the reason already stated, usually better voice acting. Sometimes I get lazy though and watch with a dub.

I think Crispin Freeman made a good Alucard. Sure it's not Jouji Nakata's voice but still very much passable.

[iori]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

I think Crispin Freeman made a good Alucard. Sure it's not Jouji Nakata's voice but still very much passable.

Yeah, he was good. I wasn't to impressed with most of the other cast though.

[Beefbowl]

I started watching anime back in the 80's and the dubs were really bad back then (except for Streamline) and I've pretty much gotten used to watching anime with the japanese language with english subs. I don't really hate english dubs but I don't really enjoy them either. There are some good ones like FMA, but then I watch Naruto and hear him say "pervy sage" and that other word he says a lot and it just makes me cringe.

[Beefbowl]

Originally Posted by Kyo28

I don't know. Both sound just as silly to me. I've bought one of the DBZ movie Blu-rays from the US and just for the heck of it tried the English track out.
It's a pretty big shock hearing Vegeta address Trunks with : "Shut up you little brat" or something along those lines, with a thick american accent, when you're used to Ryou Horikawa's voice

Speaking of which, I love how they've cast Masi Oka in Heroes but Ando's lines always stick out like a sore thumb. His Korean accent really sticks out every time he speaks Japanese. I wish they had cast another Japanese actor for Ando.

Seems like there are more Korean actors playing Japanese roles than they are Japanese actors playing them.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Kyo28

I don't know. Both sound just as silly to me. I've bought one of the DBZ movie Blu-rays from the US and just for the heck of it tried the English track out.
It's a pretty big shock hearing Vegeta address Trunks with : "Shut up you little brat" or something along those lines, with a thick american accent, when you're used to Ryou Horikawa's voice

Speaking of which, I love how they've cast Masi Oka in Heroes but Ando's lines always stick out like a sore thumb. His Korean accent really sticks out every time he speaks Japanese. I wish they had cast another Japanese actor for Ando.

Well just letting you know Canada has a totally different voice actor for Vegeta. In the American version the guy who plays Vegeta also plays Piccolo, Yamcha, Master Roshi's turtle, and about 50 other characters in the series(most are episode characters but still he is like the voice of the American version of DBZ). The worse I ever heard in the DBZ script for America is just like hell and maybe damn but since there are so many children who love it in America if they started saying like b**ch, bastard, or anything like that then guess what parents would get really upset and may even make a lawsuit that DBZ shouldn't have strong swearing in it if it's marketed as a kids show. I remember when they started showing DBZ uncut on Cartoon Network and I was like wow how are they going to pull this off? Well needless to say not a lot of people watched it and so they canned that idea.

[cathexist]

English dubs rarely seem to have very much talent involved in them. The quality usually relies on the director though, and good dubs are out there (Princess Mononoke for one, Cowboy Bebop is decent as well).

I just feel that the writing was intended for the Japanese language, and although I may not understand the language, the emotion in the dialog is always more clear in the original language than in a translation.

[iori]

I wish I still had my old Pioneer VHS DBZ tapes, I think Tree of Might might be up in the attic probably melting. I like those dubs, but I might be alone on that one.