Linear PCM vs Bitstream

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by Luis_A51

When you set your PS3 to bitstream, it will send DD5.1 as bitstream but it will limit PCM to 2.0 channels.

If you set your PS3 to PCM, it will internally decode everything and send it as pcm. It will send PCM in its original form, either 5.1 or 7.1

With that in mind, there is no reason why you should set you PS3 to bitstream.

Actually, if you have a newer capable receiver, like his 605, you should always set your PS3 to bitstream. His receiver should be able to decode PCM into 5.1, just not 7.1 The only time you do not set it is when you want to play the TrueHD track on BD's, then you have to set the PS3 to LPCM so it decodes the TrueHD track first and sends it out as PCM. His receiver can decode all the codecs correctly. And frankly, that is why you buy the receiver so it does the decoding for you.

[neckedness]

My conclusion is that Dolby Digital 5.1 sounds better than PCM uncompressed. With the PS3 set to LPCM, both soundtracks sound the exact same and very dull. But Bitstream Dolby Digital is fantastic. I connect via HDMI. Something may be wrong with my reciever or the PS3 since the lossless soundtracks just isn't good at all.

[sj001]

My understanding is that the PS3 currently is unable to output any Hi Def codecs via Bitstream, that being DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD, let alone PCM. However with PCM it will decode TrueHD internally, and send it to your receiver, and you will get the CORE DTS-HD (1.5Mbps), but not full as of yet. PCM uncompressed should definitely sound better than Dolby Digital.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Actually, if you have a newer capable receiver, like his 605, you should always set your PS3 to bitstream. His receiver should be able to decode PCM into 5.1, just not 7.1 The only time you do not set it is when you want to play the TrueHD track on BD's, then you have to set the PS3 to LPCM so it decodes the TrueHD track first and sends it out as PCM. His receiver can decode all the codecs correctly. And frankly, that is why you buy the receiver so it does the decoding for you.

No you should always have it set to PCM if you're using HDMI.
You should only set it to bitstream if you're using optical.

If you set HDMI to bitstream you'll only get Dolby Digital from the TrueHD tracks. The PS3 does not output TrueHD and DTS-MA in bitstream format, it is a limitation of the hardware, so it doesn't matter if your receiver decodes as it will not be sent the lossless track.

[LembasBread]

From my experience with the TX-SR605, the receiver inexplicably boosts DD tracks by +3dB than if it is decoded within the player. So, comparing it to the 5.1 LPCM track (which I assume your hearing all 6 channels if you're connected with HDMI), the PCM will sound lower and washed out. Just turn it up and you'll hear a difference.

There is absolutely no reason why a 5.1 Dolby Digital track should sound better than an uncompressed LPCM track. I trust the decoder within the PS3 more than I do the Onkyo because I don't know what other artificial crap the receiver's doing to the DD audio track.

When comparing a DD track decoded within the PS3 to the same LPCM track on a BD, then the differences are striking. No volume tinkering needed with the LPCM track; if anything you'll now have to turn up the DD track to level match and you'll discover just how hollow and flat it sounds compared to the far more dynamic uncompressed track.

[LembasBread]

The only reason you may want to use bitstream with the PS3 is for 6.1 to 7.1 DTS (ES or HD or HD MA). The PS3 only decodes 5.1 channels for DTS-ES tracks. The only way to get all 6.1 channels is to have the Onkyo decode the ES track.

[Luis_A51]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Actually, if you have a newer capable receiver, like his 605, you should always set your PS3 to bitstream. His receiver should be able to decode PCM into 5.1, just not 7.1 The only time you do not set it is when you want to play the TrueHD track on BD's, then you have to set the PS3 to LPCM so it decodes the TrueHD track first and sends it out as PCM. His receiver can decode all the codecs correctly. And frankly, that is why you buy the receiver so it does the decoding for you.

False.

Firstly you dont "decode" pcm into anything, its already decoded. There is also no such thing as "better" decoding. So just because your receiver can decode it doesnt mean it has to. As long as your receiver can handle 5.1 PCM (or 7.1 PCM) then you should set it to PCM. THis way you dont have to go back and change the settings for TrueHD

With the PS3 there is no reason to own a receiver that does TrueHD or DTS MA through bitstream. The 1st reason is that the PS3 cannot send these as bitstream, the second being that having the receiver decode it does not provide any benefits. It is pure marketing. What you should REALLY look for when buying a receiver is 7.1 PCM support.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

No you should always have it set to PCM if you're using HDMI.
You should only set it to bitstream if you're using optical.

If you set HDMI to bitstream you'll only get Dolby Digital from the TrueHD tracks. The PS3 does not output TrueHD and DTS-MA in bitstream format, it is a limitation of the hardware, so it doesn't matter if your receiver decodes as it will not be sent the lossless track.

Come on wake up, Did you read my post? I said to set it to LPCM when you want the TrueHD track. Be careful before you post. You have been here long enough and should know better.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by Luis_A51

False.

Firstly you dont "decode" pcm into anything, its already decoded. There is also no such thing as "better" decoding. So just because your receiver can decode it doesnt mean it has to. As long as your receiver can handle 5.1 PCM (or 7.1 PCM) then you should set it to PCM. THis way you dont have to go back and change the settings for TrueHD

With the PS3 there is no reason to own a receiver that does TrueHD or DTS MA through bitstream. The 1st reason is that the PS3 cannot send these as bitstream, the second being that having the receiver decode it does not provide any benefits. It is pure marketing. What you should REALLY look for when buying a receiver is 7.1 PCM support.

Actually, a high-quality receiver can decode and output codecs better than some players can, especially DTS-ES, like the post before yours stated. The better the DAC in a receiver, the more dynamic range the soundfield will have. When the PS3 decodes it, it only applies what the software in the cell processor tells it to apply. When a better quality BD player decodes the codec, like a Pioneer Elite, it applies more dynamic range to the sound then the standard that the PS3 applies.
It is a big difference in what you get out of the player. There are reasons the players are more money than others. They DO have better video and audio processing. A DTS track is not decoded the same in every player. The bitstreaming of audio is key to a receivers worth.
You are correct, a PCM track is the same whether it comes from the receiver or player. As for the new HD codecs, when the new players come out and can bitstream those codecs, you will hear a different sound from those than you will the PS3 decoding. You are correct, the PS3 will never bitstream those codecs, as the HDMI 1.3 was not really a true 1.3 plug. I do not know why the DTS-HDMA firmware has not hit yet. I am a little worried as to the complexity of the decoding in relation to the PS3's ability to truly decode it. Again, the better the player, the easier it can do things.
Do not get me wrong, I own a PS3 and think it is the best player on the market. But if the format is moving forward, the audio needs to also. That is why all these new players are coming out. The PS3's cell can only do so much. Remeber, it is there for many other things, besides playing BD movies. Be careful with your cynicism with the 'marketing' comment. Any audiophile will tell you that the better the player/receiver, the more you will get out of it.

[vanstone]

With the ability to Play PCM is there any reason to have anything else? oh wait people are still using HD-DVD's

[Footloose301]

Originally Posted by vanstone

With the ability to Play PCM is there any reason to have anything else? oh wait people are still using HD-DVD's

They claim TrueHD sounds just as good..... I've heard both on the same movie and PCM sounds better hands down

P.S. You should probably change your sig..... almost sounds like you're being a sarcastic HD DVD fanboy..... just a heads up

[vanstone]

Originally Posted by Footloose301

Whats that all about?

Can't tell if you're a troll.... or if you're taking that quote in your signature from somebody else. You should probably change it before people start up....

We all know PCM is the way to go..... and your signature says its a waste of space and its coming from a "true HD DVD fan!" <---meaning you?

No really! If you have PCM is there a need for any of the other formats?

Like Dolby Digital, DTS, TrueHD, etc...etc... dont all of them just compress PCM?

Sorry about the Sig, it's a quote from someone on another forum, and is meant to show how HD DVD fans! try to defend there choice.

I am Blu-ray all the way, check out some of my other posts.

[Footloose301]

Originally Posted by vanstone

No really! If you have PCM is there a need for any of the other formats?

Like Dolby Digital, DTS, TrueHD, etc...etc... dont all of them just compress PCM?

Sorry about the Sig, it's a quote from someone on another forum, and is meant to show how HD DVD fans! try to defend there choice.

I am Blu-ray all the way, check out some of my other posts.

Gotcha.

Yes, if its not labeled PCM then its compressed, unless you're talking about DTS HD-MA.

[Disco_And]

Originally Posted by neckedness

I'm new to this. I just got the Onkyo TX-SR605. I been playing with the PS3's Blu-ray settings and notice if it's set to Bitstream and blu-ray disc soundtrack set to Dolby Digital 5.1 sounds amazing and can see the dolby digital sign lit on the receiver. But the PCM uncompressed soundtrack isn't as good.

Can someone explain?

I have the onkyo 875
And I have mine on bit stream, by using the hdmi lead to the amp it decodes the PCM track on the onkyo and sounds better than the PS3 decoding it , but if you want to hear TrueHD you have to let the PS3 do it in LPCM because the PS3 cant send it in bit stream even with hdmi 1.3 it's down to the hardware so it makes it into LPCM then sends it to the Amp, but like I said don’t leave it in LPCM because all you are doing is letting the PS3 do all the decoding for everything and as you have herd it’s not as good as the onkyo

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by Disco_And

I have the onkyo 875
And I have mine on bit stream, by using the hdmi lead to the amp it decodes the PCM track on the onkyo and sounds better than the PS3 decoding it , but if you want to hear TrueHD you have to let the PS3 do it in LPCM because the PS3 cant send it in bit stream even with hdmi 1.3 it's down to the hardware so it makes it into LPCM then sends it to the Amp, but like I said don’t leave it in LPCM because all you are doing is letting the PS3 do all the decoding for everything and as you have herd it’s not as good as the onkyo

Thank you, as this was what I have been trying to say 5 or so posts ago.

[shatta]

whoa whoa whoa whoa...hold up......right now my ps3 is using optical output...and set to bitstream...with this..my 5.1 sounds good...when for example..in POTC 2 when jack knock off the head of that snail head guy with the coconut..and he fell to the right...the sound came out of the right front speaker only...very nice....my receiver had and orgasm at that moment


so ur tellin me,,the only way i can experience the above with truehd and pcm..is if i have an hdmi input and output for the receiver.....and set my ps3 to linear pcm?

[neckedness]

Originally Posted by Disco_And

I have the onkyo 875
And I have mine on bit stream, by using the hdmi lead to the amp it decodes the PCM track on the onkyo and sounds better than the PS3 decoding it , but if you want to hear TrueHD you have to let the PS3 do it in LPCM because the PS3 cant send it in bit stream even with hdmi 1.3 it's down to the hardware so it makes it into LPCM then sends it to the Amp, but like I said don’t leave it in LPCM because all you are doing is letting the PS3 do all the decoding for everything and as you have herd it’s not as good as the onkyo

So it's best to leave on Bitstream for PCM 5.1? Even though the volume is lower than DD, just turn it up alot more? Thanks for the answer.

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by Luis_A51

With that in mind, there is no reason why you should set you PS3 to bitstream.

Well unless you're me in which case setting your PS3 to LPCM results in only 2-channel 48 KHz output. In that case bitstream is far better even if if precludes hearing the uncompressed soundtracks on BD discs.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Actually, a high-quality receiver can decode and output codecs better than some players can, especially DTS-ES, like the post before yours stated. The better the DAC in a receiver, the more dynamic range the soundfield will have.

DAC = digital-to-analog converter

PCM is also digital, there's no DAC involved.

enjoy
gandalf

[neckedness]

You know, in APOCALYPTO, the menu sound clicks can be heard when set to Linear PCM, but when set to Bitstream, there's no clicks.