Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't. Lucas basically ghost-directed ROTJ, officially (though not credited as such) he was heading up the second unit and so was usually on-set whenever first-unit was shooting. Tony Daniels cryptically remarked that if he had a question he always went to one of the two directors for answers, and although he didn't say who it's pretty obvious he meant Lucas. As soon as Marquand had delivered his contractually-obliged "director's cut" Lucas booted him out, brought in his own editor and that was the end of that.

Kersh's fingerprints are all over Empire because Lucas really wasn't there for that one, he was too busy trying to keep his fledgling empire together as production overran, having put his business and even his ownership of SW itself at stake in order to get the banks to finance the movie. He did of course partake of editing, VFX approval and so on during the latter stages of the film's production, but he couldn't undo Kersh's influence in the edit...whilst ROTJ plays every bit like a giant effects-fuelled toy commercial, a charge levied not unfairly at the creator's prequels two decades hence.
.

I try looking for sings that there's a Richard Marquand movie (whatever that is) that's been abridged or suppressed by Lucas's cut. But it's just not there. You get the feeling that Lucas doesn't really have too much time for the notion that audiences might appreciate, even subconsciously, the cinematic properties of a shot and how it was achieved in and of itself. He clearly values the interrelation of shots between each other. Which is why material that stands out is often the stuff he had little to no control over when it was being captured. Effects shots (except in the prequels where Lucas had more facility to previsualise for himself what ILM would go on and develop) and the footage Kershner shot for Empire being the obvious ones. Kershner was quite open about his efforts to almost create the edited film on the stage with direction that meant that you either couldn't or didn't want to cut into or that had an obvious place where you had to cut. The effect is that Empire, for the most part, cuts like butter as it was intended to.

The most telling quote is from Lucas himself, after only seeing the dailies for Raiders, unedited!, he turned to Spielberg and said. "Do you know something? You're a really good director."

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Couldn't have been Warners, their animation division went down with the market for shorts and transitioned to a tv unit with budgets to match.

But Geoff -- both Steven and George were big into Disney, that whole generation was, they grew up mesmerized by his "Hey gang, here's how we do this" episodes. It's unwritten, but they're huge Disney fans. I grew up with Leonard Nimoy on Nickelodeon showing young kids how films were made. Same thing with George and Steven. There are so many Disney references in Spielberg's films, I can't believe no one's catalogued them. George had both affection and criticism -- he didn't want to be seen in the same mold, yet went out and made....a Disney film. He wanted to make one thing, wound up making something he didn't intend. George Lucas was disappointed with Star Wars, calling it a Disney film in disparaging terms according to Brian DePalma, when that's exactly what people loved about it -- Leonard Maltin wrote that Star Wars was so Disney it shook the Disney studio because it was the sort of thing Disney should have been doing at the time...and then Disney didn't remember how to do Disney anymore and we got botched stuff like The Black Hole and Tron and The Black Cauldron (all of which I kinda love, but they ain't exactly at the studio at their peak).

What are you telling me, that a love for animation itself = love for Disney? There doesn't necessarily need to be that corollary. Or am I misunderstanding?

[Memon]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Yeah, it would have happened by now. The studio just doesn't want to spend the money to complete shots that were never inked, and even though complete workprints of the orginal exist, they're unfinished. That's the holdup.

They released the workprint version of Beauty and the Beast on its first (I don't know if they kept it in the latter ones) blu-ray edition (Diamond?), so they could do that. But of course tBC is not BatB. It would mean they cared about cult followings, catalogue releasing, or about physical media in general.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Takeshi666

Oh I thought they'd completed the footage and cut it out after a poor test audience reaction, like what happened with Tod Browning's Freaks.

Sadly, no, although the story seems to change year to year depending on who opens up about it. The latest version is Jeffery Katzenberg feeling the film was running too long and wanted ten minutes cut (indiscriminately, he just wanted the entire movie shorter and faster) and finally wound up cutting twelve, but it was a workprint, and some of the animated shots were drawn but never inked even though the uncut version was scored by Bernstein. That's the hold-up. Disney just doesn't want to spend the money on finishing a movie they regard as a mistake in the first place.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Bobbyjoe766

Revenge of the Sith is just as editorially bloated as the previous two chapters imo.

i was surprised how long the opening battle/rescue of Palpatine actually runs when I saw the marathon a few years back. It may not run 40 minutes but it sure feels like it.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What are you telling me, that a love for animation itself = love for Disney? There doesn't necessarily need to be that corollary. Or am I misunderstanding?

Certainly not, Geoff. Chuck Jones called Walt the patron saint of animation, but animation isn't a church. It existed before him and its practically pervasive decades after his death. I'm just telling you Lucas and Spielberg grew up as kids with "Uncle Walt" on TV when he was producing TV episodes giving people a glimpse into certain fundamentals of animation and filmmaking, and they were fans. Spielberg particularly, not just Disney. He was also big into Warner's shorts (which receive cameos in Sugarland Express and Close Encounters). Shark not working in Jaws, how do we solve this in editorial...Spielberg said the first thing that came to his mind was Disney. Go watch Bambi, off-screen never viewed predator, all suggested with a low repeating motif. Williams saved the movie using the same exact technique as Ed Plumb's score for Bambi. Bambi and Jaws makes for a fun double-feature, same thing with Pinocchio and Close Encounters. Dumbo and 1941. Steamboat Willie and Saving Private Ryan. Peter Pan and Hook. There are even Disney nods in The Terminal, Last Crusade, and Always. Spielberg produced Roger Rabbit and said it was a movie he was making "for" Walt Disney (I've still got his interview on tape saying it).

As for Mr. Lucas, it was the opposite -- he didn't intend to make Star Wars a Disney film and called it "a damn Disney film" before release in disparaging terms (if you believe De Palma), it just kinda worked out that way, and the parallels were not lost on people at the Disney studio (if you believe Leonard Maltin, Disney had become moribund taking their audience for granted, Star Wars shook them up)...want another fun double-feature? Go watch Snow White and Return of the Jedi.

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

i was surprised how long the opening battle/rescue of Palpatine actually runs when I saw the marathon a few years back. It may not run 40 minutes but it sure feels like it.

It's about 20 minutes long, and it goes by pretty quick imo. Jabba's palace goes on for like 35 minutes and it does feel long, but it's still amazing nonetheless.

[Jhicks11]

Just ordered this off EBay, and I was surprised to open my copy and find out it was a fake! FFS!

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by Jhicks11

Just ordered this off EBay, and I was surprised to open my copy and find out it was a fake! FFS!

I'm assuming I'm missing the smiley face sarcasm given that somewhere around 75% of the copies sold over the last year are Boots.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Jhicks11

Just ordered this off EBay, and I was surprised to open my copy and find out it was a fake! FFS!

Not surprising. I would say at least half of the bootleg BDs you find on eBay are Disney related because they tend to carry a higher price for a longer period.

[See Rad]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The Jedi massacre mirrors his work on The Godfather (Michael settling family business).

Whose work? Are you saying Lucas was involved with making The Godfather?

[JEDGAR1000]

Originally Posted by See Rad

Whose work? Are you saying Lucas was involved with making The Godfather?

Lucas was involved with making the Godfather

The friendship between Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas goes back decades, to when they were both relatively unknown filmmakers in Northern California. Coppola served as executive producer on THX 1138, Lucas’ first film, and the year after it was finished, Lucas worked as an assistant on The Godfather. Lucas shot the footage of newspaper inserts that show major events during the scenes where the families go to the mattresses as well as the one above, which reveals to Michael the shooting of his father. But perhaps his biggest contribution to the film was a small suggestion he made to Coppola. After filming the scene in which Michael fends off would-be assassins while the don is in the hospital, Coppola realized he didn’t have extra shots to feature the sound of footsteps in the hallways. So Lucas suggested that he use the leftover shots of empty hallways just after the actors had left the frame. Lucas helped Coppola scour his original footage for those precious few seconds, which Coppola used in the film, greatly adding to the tension of an already white-knuckle scene.

http://entertainment.time.com/2012/0...-some-footage/

[Martoto]

The exact same trick was repeated by Tommy Wallace and John Carpenter for the montage at the end of Halloween. I wonder if they were aware they were using the same method. Being USC alumni, with Wallace attending around the time of Godfather's release(I think), it's possible that Lucas told the story to a class at the cinema school. Maybe.

[crissrudd4554]

I was just watching Episode IV and something just dawned on me for the first time. Sure everyone complains Chewbacca didn’t get a medal but darn it give R2-D2 a Purple Heart or something. They may have fixed him in time for the ceremony but this is what he looked like after returning from battle!

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

I was just watching Episode IV and something just dawned on me for the first time. Sure everyone complains Chewbacca didn’t get a medal but darn it give R2-D2 a Purple Heart or something. They may have fixed him in time for the ceremony but this is what he looked like after returning from battle!

[Show spoiler]

Yeah. And it might get a tomato thrown at me, but this is even worse considering what he did in Phantom Menace. Luke and Leia wouldn't even be around without him.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Yeah. And it might get a tomato thrown at me, but this is even worse considering what he did in Phantom Menace. Luke and Leia wouldn't even be around without him.

That droid has been through a lot in over 66 years, hasn't he?

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

I was just watching Episode IV and something just dawned on me for the first time. Sure everyone complains Chewbacca didn’t get a medal but darn it give R2-D2 a Purple Heart or something. They may have fixed him in time for the ceremony but this is what he looked like after returning from battle!

Watching The Clone Wars makes that even more messed up when you realize the special bond that Anakin and Artoo had

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Yeah. And it might get a tomato thrown at me, but this is even worse considering what he did in Phantom Menace. Luke and Leia wouldn't even be around without him.

In the prequels, Artoo continues his tradition of playing a pivotal role in the story with the numerous times he saves the lives of major characters. Meanwhile, Threepio's role is diminished to such a degree he serves no purpose to the story whatsoever.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by Martoto

You get the feeling that Lucas doesn't really have too much time for the notion that audiences might appreciate, even subconsciously, the cinematic properties of a shot and how it was achieved in and of itself. He clearly values the interrelation of shots between each other.

This is a really good observation.

[drush9999]

Artoo is severely underused in the sequel trilogy.