Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Nobody at any point in that video said that George had no input in the editorial process or had nothing to do with the film being successful, they're just pointing out that Marcia made significant contributions to the film herself. If anybody needs to stop with anything, it's you.

Back with the attacks I see.
One post and I "need to stop".

Originally Posted by ambient_indie

And Marcia Lucas won an Oscar for Best Film Editing in Star Wars soooooo.

Again, George was uncredited.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Back with the attacks I see.
One post and I "need to stop".

I make a post pointing something out to you and that's the equivalent of an attack?

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Back with the attacks I see.
One post and I "need to stop".

Where was the attack???

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

I make a post pointing something out to you and that's the equivalent of an attack?

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Where was the attack???

I make an observation for the first time in a while and "I need to stop". Stop what? Pointing out George Lucas edited Star Wars and saying otherwise is revisionist?

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Again, George was uncredited.

Uncredited for what? Because "best script" wasn't one of the Oscars Star Wars won?

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Someone should make a fan edit of the original Star Wars and replace Leia’s voice with Jar Jar’s. “Meesa recognized you foul stench when meesa brought on board! The mo yousa tighten you grip, Tarkin, the mo star systems will slip through yousa fingas!”

[motorheadache95]

If Lucas was ever talented at film editing back then, he definitely lost his sense for it later on. The prequels are definitely bloated films, and even the Special Editions of the originals come off worse on that front. The original Star Wars now has 2 scenes repeating the same exposition and sometimes even identical dialog (Greedo and then Jabba). Then there was the totally unnecessary pasting in of Darth Vader's shuttle to Star Destroyer sequences in Empire. Finally, Jedi Rocks, aside from being terrible, also stops the entire film to show you a silly cartoon music video.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I make an observation for the first time in a while and "I need to stop". Stop what? Pointing out George Lucas edited Star Wars and saying otherwise is revisionist?

That's not an answer to my question.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

George is a great idea man and visual artist. That's his strong suit. Star Wars is built on his imagination and wouldn't exist without him. However the classic films are beloved for a lot of reasons outside of Lucas' strengths. They're good FILMS because of the work of many others as well as him. That's why the prequels... where he had much more control and was surrounded by yes-men... are much worse films.

As they say in Scotland "You're talking mince, laddie."

[peschi]

pfew for a moment I thought we had actual meaningful discussion in this thread

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

If Lucas was ever talented at film editing back then, he definitely lost his sense for it later on. The prequels are definitely bloated films, and even the Special Editions of the originals come off worse on that front. The original Star Wars now has 2 scenes repeating the same exposition and sometimes even identical dialog (Greedo and then Jabba). Then there was the totally unnecessary pasting in of Darth Vader's shuttle to Star Destroyer sequences in Empire. Finally, Jedi Rocks, aside from being terrible, also stops the entire film to show you a silly cartoon music video.

Lucas loved editing because that was where he most comfortable crafting his stories, several of his student films were documentaries. He hated writing, he hated shooting even more, but in the edit he finally felt at home. He also professed a liking for animation (again, no actors to deal with) but a big studio basically shuttered their animation division right when he was about to start work there (Warners, possibly? Can't remember).

He's had a gift for editing, always has, not only on his own films but helping out Coppola from time to time as well, lending a hand on The Godfather for example. Alas, as editing evolved from analogue to digital - spurred on by Coppola's penchant for spending loads of money on the latest gadgets and gizmos, the baton was picked up by Lucas in earnest - it gave him far too many choices, far too many roads to take, and the nascent animator in him thralled at all the digital creations he was now able to will into filmic existence, all too often losing sight of story at the expense of spectacle.

Even when he edited something as superb as the pod race in Phantom Menace (still a fantastic scene, basically Ben-Hur's chariot race reimagined in a galaxy far, far away) he couldn't help but add some bloat back in for the extended DVD cut which only served to unseat the pacing. He finally got his groove back for Revenge of the Sith, having come to terms with the 'kid in a candy store' aspect of all his digital toys, but it was too late.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Takeshi666

I think Richard Marquand deserves more credit.

I don't. Lucas basically ghost-directed ROTJ, officially (though not credited as such) he was heading up the second unit and so was usually on-set whenever first-unit was shooting. Tony Daniels cryptically remarked that if he had a question he always went to one of the two directors for answers, and although he didn't say who it's pretty obvious he meant Lucas. As soon as Marquand had delivered his contractually-obliged "director's cut" Lucas booted him out, brought in his own editor and that was the end of that.

Kersh's fingerprints are all over Empire because Lucas really wasn't there for that one, he was too busy trying to keep his fledgling empire together as production overran, having put his business and even his ownership of SW itself at stake in order to get the banks to finance the movie. He did of course partake of editing, VFX approval and so on during the latter stages of the film's production, but he couldn't undo Kersh's influence in the edit...whilst ROTJ plays every bit like a giant effects-fuelled toy commercial, a charge levied not unfairly at the creator's prequels two decades hence.

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Guys, Carrie was taking acting classes in England during the shooting of Star Wars and it bled into her performance and they never decided to "fix it". That's all that was. The excuse I heard from a board user named Go-Mer Tonic said it was "diplo-dialect" or something like that, where everyone in the Senate spoke with an English accent, so Padme speaks with an American accent while Amidala (same person) speaks with an English accent.

No.

Carrie was a kiddo taking acting classes in England. Her accent is all over the place. It happens. No mega-ultra-well-thought-"diplo-dialect"-world-building, just a movie set and a day's work.

Have you read the Princess Diarist? Fisher sorta says that her accent was an unconscious reaction at performing with one of the greats, that she was so nervous she basically reflected Cushing's upper-crust affectation back at him. Makes as much sense as anything else I've heard.

[Killer Meteor]

Originally Posted by Takeshi666

I think Richard Marquand deserves more credit.

Apparently, Dave Prowse hates Marquand even more than he hates Lucas.

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Lucas loved editing because that was where he most comfortable crafting his stories, several of his student films were documentaries. He hated writing, he hated shooting even more, but in the edit he finally felt at home. He also professed a liking for animation (again, no actors to deal with) but a big studio basically shuttered their animation division right when he was about to start work there (Warners, possibly? Can't remember).

He's had a gift for editing, always has, not only on his own films but helping out Coppola from time to time as well, lending a hand on The Godfather for example. Alas, as editing evolved from analogue to digital - spurred on by Coppola's penchant for spending loads of money on the latest gadgets and gizmos, the baton was picked up by Lucas in earnest - it gave him far too many choices, far too many roads to take, and the nascent animator in him thralled at all the digital creations he was now able to will into filmic existence, all too often losing sight of story at the expense of spectacle.

Even when he edited something as superb as the pod race in Phantom Menace (still a fantastic scene, basically Ben-Hur's chariot race reimagined in a galaxy far, far away) he couldn't help but add some bloat back in for the extended DVD cut which only served to unseat the pacing. He finally got his groove back for Revenge of the Sith, having come to terms with the 'kid in a candy store' aspect of all his digital toys, but it was too late.

Revenge of the Sith is just as editorially bloated as the previous two chapters imo.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Have you read the Princess Diarist? Fisher sorta says that her accent was an unconscious reaction at performing with one of the greats, that she was so nervous she basically reflected Cushing's upper-crust affectation back at him. Makes as much sense as anything else I've heard.

Some people in this thread would do well to go out of their way to avoid ever listening to Aaron Fearne:

Defensive rotation off dribble penetration - Aaron Fearne - Basketball Fundamentals - YouTube

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Bobbyjoe766

Revenge of the Sith is just as editorially bloated as the previous two chapters imo.

Not really, the pace is pretty breakneck. Not much fat to cut.

The Jedi massacre mirrors his work on The Godfather (Michael settling family business).

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Lucas loved editing because that was where he most comfortable crafting his stories, several of his student films were documentaries. He hated writing, he hated shooting even more, but in the edit he finally felt at home. He also professed a liking for animation (again, no actors to deal with) but a big studio basically shuttered their animation division right when he was about to start work there (Warners, possibly? Can't remember).

He's had a gift for editing, always has, not only on his own films but helping out Coppola from time to time as well, lending a hand on The Godfather for example. Alas, as editing evolved from analogue to digital - spurred on by Coppola's penchant for spending loads of money on the latest gadgets and gizmos, the baton was picked up by Lucas in earnest - it gave him far too many choices, far too many roads to take, and the nascent animator in him thralled at all the digital creations he was now able to will into filmic existence, all too often losing sight of story at the expense of spectacle.

Even when he edited something as superb as the pod race in Phantom Menace (still a fantastic scene, basically Ben-Hur's chariot race reimagined in a galaxy far, far away) he couldn't help but add some bloat back in for the extended DVD cut which only served to unseat the pacing. He finally got his groove back for Revenge of the Sith, having come to terms with the 'kid in a candy store' aspect of all his digital toys, but it was too late.

Couldn't have been Warners, their animation division went down with the market for shorts and transitioned to a tv unit with budgets to match.

But Geoff -- both Steven and George were big into Disney, that whole generation was, they grew up mesmerized by his "Hey gang, here's how we do this" episodes. It's unwritten, but they're huge Disney fans. I grew up with Leonard Nimoy on Nickelodeon showing young kids how films were made. Same thing with George and Steven -- they grew up with Walt showing how animation was achieved. There are so many Disney references in Spielberg's films, I can't believe no one's catalogued them. George had both affection and criticism of Disney's films -- he didn't want to be seen in the same mold, yet went out and made....a Disney film. He wanted to make one thing, wound up making something he didn't intend. George Lucas was disappointed with Star Wars, calling it a Disney film in disparaging terms according to Brian DePalma, when that's exactly what people loved about it -- Leonard Maltin wrote that Star Wars was so Disney it shook the Disney studio because it was the sort of thing Disney should have been doing at the time...and then Disney didn't remember how to do Disney anymore and we got botched stuff like The Black Hole and Tron and The Black Cauldron (all of which I kinda love, but they ain't exactly the studio at their peak when it comes to writing).

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not really, the pace is pretty breakneck. Not much fat to cut.

The Jedi massacre mirrors his work on The Godfather (Michael settling family business).

The opening, General Grievous pursuit and the final lightsaber duel could use some tightening.

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The Black Cauldron

Another movie we'll probably never see the original cut of.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Takeshi666

Another movie we'll probably never see the original cut of.

Yeah, it would have happened by now. The studio just doesn't want to spend the money to complete shots that were never inked, and even though complete workprints of the orginal exist, they're unfinished. That's the holdup.

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Yeah, it would have happened by now. The studio just doesn't want to spend the money to complete shots that were never inked, and even though complete workprints of the orginal exist, they're unfinished. That's the holdup.

Oh I thought they'd completed the footage and cut it out after a poor test audience reaction, like what happened with Tod Browning's Freaks.