HBO's "Game Of Thrones" Discussion (2011-2019)

[The Lizard King]

Originally Posted by myaddow

I enjoyed the battle. Sam should have and needs to die.

Sam is the one who tells the story the "Song of Ice and Fire," like Bilbo tells the story of "The Hobbit."

As such, he has complete plot armor.

[myanks12]

First of all, regarding the budget, that wasn't the problem with this episode. You can't expect HBO to spend more money than they've spent. Just wanted to make sure I mentioned that.

Originally Posted by NARMAK

That's the thing though. The white walkers were peripheral to the story of all the human characters going on through almost all the seasons until we finally got to see them fully unveiled and they ARE a threat but people are looking at them now in isolation rather than all the seasons we saw hints of them AND season 7 when their story really ramped up. The truth is that we have 6 episodes this season for the whole series to end. So how much time did people honestly want spent watching undead Wights and NK who doesn't talk? Really, a serious question.

Here's the thing...I'm not someone that loves the NK or the white walkers. I don't care if they were introduced in episode 1 before all of the other main characters and things like that. These are the typical arguments you hear when it comes to how important they are. So I didn't necessarily need to see them be the endgame of the series for any of those reasons. Just putting that out there.

Now, you mentioned something that struck a cord for me. You said that the white walkers were peripheral to the story of all of the human characters. Through most of the series, I would have to agree with you. But here's where I don't...episodes 6 and 7 of season 7. Season 7 was the first shortened season. Yet, they basically burned the final two episodes on the white walkers to the point where you had Jon risking his life to prove that the wights existed to Cersei, who we can all agree is the main villain of the show. Doesn't that remove the white walkers from being a peripheral part of the story? They're basically telling you with the writing that the conflict with Cersei does not matter. Defeating the white walker threat matters more than anything. And they needed Cersei because they needed every last person to defeat the army of the dead, setting them up as an army that is going to be next to impossible to defeat. Again, I'm going by the writing of the show..not my desire to see more white walker action.

So now we fast forward to the battle and Cersei doesn't send her army. No surprise to the viewer but does it have any kind of an impact on the battle? Absolutely not...it does not matter at all that Cersei's troops were never sent. They took down the white walkers in what was probably a 2 hour battle. In fact, in the first 30 seconds of the battle, the white walkers essentially destroy almost all of the Dothraki and it really did not matter. It didn't make it harder for everyone to defeat the white walkers because of the ending that was thrown in with Arya. My whole point is that the writers decided to hammer home this idea that the white walkers were this huge threat that was going to be impossible to stop. The writers were the ones who put the human conflict on the backburner and made the point that the white walkers were the most dangerous threat. Just go back to episodes 6 and 7 in season 7 for proof. That's why I was expecting more of a struggle to defeat them. In some ways, I was almost hoping for a NK victory in Winterfell to really make what we had been watching in these final hours worth it. Not having Cersei's troops was going to be a negative. The Dothraki getting wiped out in 30 seconds was going to be a negative. But it just wasn't a negative. All major characters survived and now we're returning to the Cersei conflict it seems. That's where the disappointment stems from, at least for me.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by ritmomundo

Am I mistaken or didn't Arya give Sansa the dagger (the "stick them with the pointy end" scene)? How does she have it at the end?

No, she gave Sansa one of those generic dragonglass knives everyone was getting (like the one Lyanna Mormont used to stab the Wight Giant).

[Rixx]

Originally Posted by ritmomundo

Am I mistaken or didn't Arya give Sansa the dagger (the "stick them with the pointy end" scene)? How does she have it at the end?

Arya gave Sansa a dragonglass dagger. She kept the Valerian steel for herself

[KcMsterpce]

I wish this show was available in a lump, so I could finally end this abysmal experience.
Seasons 1-4 were some of the best TV I've ever seen. Season 5 was crap, and season 6 was worse.
Season 7 worked a a stupid, brainless slice of entertainment fluff.
Now we have this...
I just wish I could get it over with. I hate having this dedicated sense of completionism, to "see it through to the end". I'm so stubborn.

[Rixx]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

Beric and Tormund were pretty emphatic in stating that anyone who wasn’t already at Winterfell when they got there would be overrun and absorbed into the army of the dead.

The opening credits show the army of the dead going from the wall to the last hearth then on to Winterfell. Going to Deepwood Motte would be a detour over mountains and through the forest for just a few hundred people when the main prize is at Winterfell.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

Yeah, I have super fast internet and a pretty nice TV and I was still having some issues last night, so I can only imagine what it was like for people with lower quality screens and worse connections. Not a good combo for dark content. And add the fact that the scenes weren't blocked very well to track the action, and it was just a really weird episode.

The people commenting get a better tv likely don’t even have Oleds they think because they could “see everything” that qualifies as black/ dark detail which is lost and different than I can see everything assuming that report is true that they purposely messed with it at the source nothing will salvage what could have been same with AVP:R

Still waiting to see some tv models posted from the get a better tv crew

[Rixx]

Thought the hound might of died but am glad Cleganebowl is still on

[bradnoyes]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

I wish this show was available in a lump, so I could finally end this abysmal experience.
Seasons 1-4 were some of the best TV I've ever seen. Season 5 was crap, and season 6 was worse.
Season 7 worked a a stupid, brainless slice of entertainment fluff.
Now we have this...
I just wish I could get it over with. I hate having this dedicated sense of completionism, to "see it through to the end". I'm so stubborn.

Ha, my wife and I were saying the same thing last night: at least it will be over soon! We were referring to both the episode and the series in general. Not gonna lie, though: I'll still read the last few books (if they ever see the light of day). Just too much invested at this point, even if it makes me miserable.

[The Lizard King]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Why didn't Arya just disguise herself as a White Walker and sneak up on the Night King that way? I mean if she can successfully impersonate Walder Frey I don't see why she couldn't do the same as a WW.

Because when white walkers die, they shatter into thousands of pieces. There would be no face left for Arya to use as a disguise.

[Jay Mammoth]

Had a Panasonic VT60 which was an amazing plasma. Wouldn’t go back to it over my C8 OLED though.

[The Lizard King]

Originally Posted by WKoA13

But they already established his "arrogance" (or whatever you want to call it) several times in the episode. And even his prior appearances. He doesn't "hesitate" about things, no, but he takes his sweet times, and even draws things out, almost for the sake of psychological F***ery. At Hardhome he waits til the survivors are already out of reach on the water to show them (Jon) how easily he can raise new soldiers. He takes his time and lines up his shot with the ice spear last season. He shows no concern as his wight dragon is being attacked, and no concern after he's knocked off of it. He stands there and lets Dany flash fry him and even lose sight of him in the flames, and THEN after they die down, smirks, and grabs another spear.

When he hears Jon Snow following him, he doesn't turn back, or try to instantly end it himself. He doesn't even immediately raise new dead. He just looks him dead in the eye for a moment, and THEN raises his hands. Even when he's finally alone with Bran....he slowly approaches him, and then takes a moment to just stare him down before even starting to reach for his sword.

MY issue with the Arya thing was....where did she jump from? She was coming from almost above him, it looked like, but then they seemed to be almost center of the goodswood, so there didn't seem to be any walls or roofs close enough. But, it's a minor one really.

She probably approached the NK the exact same way she approached Jon in Episode 1. I'm guessing through the tree limbs.

[mredman]

What the hell happened to Ghost ?

[jayman3]

“I think the issue is either with HBO or the TV providers delivering the signal,” Willcox said. “It's uniformly bad across both streaming and pay TV. We started noticing it during dark scenes last week, but it was even worse this week due to the amount of very dark scenes in the episode. Not only is the show losing black detail—so you can't make out what's happening with dark scenes—but we're also seeing compression artifacts and a significant amount of false contouring, also called banding.

So either HBO is screwing up the encoding of the show, or there's not sufficient bandwidth to transmit the show without losing the bit detail in darker images,” he said. “You don't really notice it as much in brighter scenes. I was able to watch it on an OLED TV, which does a better job with blacks, and even on these sets the issue remains. It's not the TV technology.”

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...tm_source=dmfb

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by mredman

What the hell happened to Ghost ?

Hes in the trailer he also magically had armor

[jon angell]

Originally Posted by The Lizard King

Because when white walkers die, they shatter into thousands of pieces. There would be no face left for Arya to use as a disguise.

wait you are trying to use LOGIC to people on this site, they will never understand it. I mean the show has dragons & the dead & magic, so I think that anything is possible

[PissedOffPeoN]

Originally Posted by jayman3

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...tm_source=dmfb

Ya it was pretty bad, i just got my c8 and that was the only thing i watched that looked horrible.. my dvd upscaled of babylon 5 im rewatching looked better lol.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by myanks12

First of all, regarding the budget, that wasn't the problem with this episode. You can't expect HBO to spend more money than they've spent. Just wanted to make sure I mentioned that.

[Show spoiler]Here's the thing...I'm not someone that loves the NK or the white walkers. I don't care if they were introduced in episode 1 before all of the other main characters and things like that. These are the typical arguments you hear when it comes to how important they are. So I didn't necessarily need to see them be the endgame of the series for any of those reasons. Just putting that out there.

Now, you mentioned something that struck a cord for me. You said that the white walkers were peripheral to the story of all of the human characters. Through most of the series, I would have to agree with you. But here's where I don't...episodes 6 and 7 of season 7. Season 7 was the first shortened season. Yet, they basically burned the final two episodes on the white walkers to the point where you had Jon risking his life to prove that the wights existed to Cersei, who we can all agree is the main villain of the show. Doesn't that remove the white walkers from being a peripheral part of the story? They're basically telling you with the writing that the conflict with Cersei does not matter. Defeating the white walker threat matters more than anything. And they needed Cersei because they needed every last person to defeat the army of the dead, setting them up as an army that is going to be next to impossible to defeat. Again, I'm going by the writing of the show..not my desire to see more white walker action.

So now we fast forward to the battle and Cersei doesn't send her army. No surprise to the viewer but does it have any kind of an impact on the battle? Absolutely not...it does not matter at all that Cersei's troops were never sent. They took down the white walkers in what was probably a 2 hour battle. In fact, in the first 30 seconds of the battle, the white walkers essentially destroy almost all of the Dothraki and it really did not matter. It didn't make it harder for everyone to defeat the white walkers because of the ending that was thrown in with Arya. My whole point, is that the writers decided to hammer home this idea that the white walkers were this huge threat that was going to be impossible to stop. The writers were the ones who put the human conflict on the backburner and made the point that the white walkers were the most dangerous threat. Just go back to episodes 6 and 7 in season 7 for proof. That's why I was expecting more of a struggle to defeat them. In some ways, I was almost hoping for a NK victory in Winterfell to really make what we had been watching in these final hours worth it. Not having Cersei's troops was going to be a negative. The Dothraki getting wiped out in 30 seconds was going to be a negative. But it just wasn't a negative. All major characters survived and now we're returning to the Cersei conflict it seems. That's where the disappointment stems from, at least for me

.

So this is my take on it at least. The white walkers like i said were peripheral and "something out there" for the Nights Watch to come across and then try to warn the rest of Westeros about but they all went about their dubious machinations to play for power, money etc. and we saw the meat and potatoes of the show which was the human drama and element viewers enjoy. They carefully ramped up the white walkers and the threat they posed and made the show more fantastical as time went on from the much more grounded show we saw in the first few seasons.

The NK building his army and White Walkers was slowly being built up as an existential threat to all in Westeros and we then see them pay a huge focus on that threat during Season 7 and Cersei and the parts you mentioned were designed to set up a huge war with the NK army and all of the living before she is shown as lying and keeps back which based on how episode 3 just ended was a brilliant tactical play on her part. To "Mop up what's left" or however she said it. Because when it comes down to it, audiences want to go back to seeing Cersei, The Mountain, Euron etc. get their comeuppance at the hands of the other human characters. It's more dramatic. The NK beating our heroes at Winterfell and then going to Kings Landing tand killing Cersei etc. wouldn't have had the same dramatic impact.

Also remember, the fight at Winterfell was basically lost before those last 20 seconds with Arya changed everything. Killing the NK and his army in one stabbing. So the threat the NK and his army posed was built up to convey to viewers how dangerous of a threat it really was. They barely survived that battle. That dramatically makes viewers more engaged back into the human element and stories yet to be told. Honestly, did you hear the NK or wights speak a single word? How boring would the show have been if an entire focus got placed on them? Hell, even Orcs in LOTR talked. Here we get nothing from them. So i'm glad to see they didn't roll NK out more than necessary.

[jetthead]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Or there is a much much simpler explanation when she left the hall she used one of the secret passages to get to the Godswood and had just simply been hiding until the NK showed himself. She could not save Theon or the Ironborn protecting Bran she had to wait until they were 1 on 1.

Kind just waiting for them to tell us Gendry knocked her up to fulfill the Stark/Baratheon prophecy from season 1.

This is the most obvious explanation. She knew what the plan was and that the Night King would eventually go there. Remember, after she leaves Melisandre & The Hound, she is not seen again for a long period of time (I believe it's about 25 minutes until she reappears to kill the NK).

[mredman]

Originally Posted by supersix4

Hes in the trailer he also magically had armor

He isnt in the trailer for ep 4