Dressed to Kill (1980)

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Criterion released more mainstream titles on Laserdisc in the 90s and in the early days of DVD, than what they release now on Blu-ray. With Laserdisc there was less competition and they covered a wider base. Now they are much more tightly focused on more esoteric titles. The company has changed, it happens over several decades.

Dressed to Kill is anything but esoteric. Same with Tootsie, The Black Stallion, The Fisher King, Time Bandits, All That Jazz, The Big Chill, the films of Wes Anderson. These are all pretty mainstream and released alongside the foreign and arthouse releases that people "know them for". Criterion released Tootsie on laserdisc back in the day, and released it on blu-ray quite recently. A re-release of Carrie would absolutely in keeping with their business model and would fit in nicely alongside the other De Palma films they have released / are releasing.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Dressed to Kill is anything but esoteric. Same with Tootsie, The Black Stallion, The Fisher King, Time Bandits, All That Jazz, The Big Chill, the films of Wes Anderson. These are all pretty mainstream and released alongside the foreign and arthouse releases that people "know them for". Criterion released Tootsie on laserdisc back in the day, and released it on blu-ray quite recently. A re-release of Carrie would absolutely in keeping with their business model and would fit in nicely alongside the other De Palma films they have released / are releasing.

OK, I'm done splitting hairs and shall go and watch a De Palma film rather than bicker about them.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Blow Out is considered by many to be De Palma's best film

I would say The Untouchables, or maybe Scarface (although it has a better reputation than it is an actual movie). I do like Blow Out a lot, as a variation of Antonioni's Blow Up by way of Hitchcock. Never liked Dressed to Kill much, or any of his films post-Carlito's Way.

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by JoeBuck

Everything is preferable to The Untouchables as far as Im concerned.

So true.

[Arlington]

Originally Posted by JoeBuck

Everything is preferable to The Untouchables as far as Im concerned.

That's a shame. You're missing out on one hell of a score if nothing else.

[StingingVelvet]

Untouchables is definitely not the classic it tends to be billed as but it's still great pop entertainment with some brilliant moments and one hell of a score.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

I would say The Untouchables, or maybe Scarface (although it has a better reputation than it is an actual movie). I do like Blow Out a lot, as a variation of Antonioni's Blow Up by way of Hitchcock. Never liked Dressed to Kill much, or any of his films post-Carlito's Way.

As I already said, casual De Palma viewers would chose a mainstream studio film like The Untouchables which De Palma did as a job for hire. Genuine De Palma fans would chose a more personal, edgy and initially underappreciated film like Blow Out or Dressed to Kill.

There used to be a website with a forum devoted to De Palma and it was the film forum I used to enjoy posing the most in until it closed down. A couple of members went on to become respected film critics, like Keith Uhlich at Time Out New York. It gave an insight what films genuine De Palma fans would chose and it certainly wasn't The Untouchables.

[cropsy]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

As I already said, casual De Palma viewers would chose a mainstream studio film like The Untouchables which De Palma did as a job for hire. Genuine De Palma fans would chose a more personal, edgy and initially underappreciated film like Blow Out or Dressed to Kill.

There used to be a website with a forum devoted to De Palma and it was the film forum I used to enjoy posing the most in until it closed down. A couple of members went on to become respected film critics, like Keith Uhlich at Time Out New York. It gave an insight what films genuine De Palma fans would chose and it certainly wasn't The Untouchables.

Maybe the most ridiculous pretentious post i have ever seen on this forum. Let people like what they want without denigrating them. Why would anyone choose " an initially underappreciated film"? how the film was recieved should have no bearing on ones opinion of it surely.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

As I already said, casual De Palma viewers would chose a mainstream studio film like The Untouchables which De Palma did as a job for hire. Genuine De Palma fans would chose a more personal, edgy and initially underappreciated film like Blow Out or Dressed to Kill.

There used to be a website with a forum devoted to De Palma and it was the film forum I used to enjoy posing the most in until it closed down. A couple of members went on to become respected film critics, like Keith Uhlich at Time Out New York. It gave an insight what films genuine De Palma fans would chose and it certainly wasn't The Untouchables.

Oh so now you're talking about "genuine" DePalma fans?

I would think genuine DePalma fans (and general MOVIE fans) would pick a real Hitchcock film over one of his many ripoff attempts, because "genuine" fans would recognize it as such.

You also said this:

"Blow Out is considered by many to be De Palma's best film"

Considering it was a flop, I again disagree. You conveniently neglected to add that you were only talking about "genuine" DePalma fans, not the masses who go to the movies. So my assumption stands. Many would consider Untouchables or Scarface his best film, and the proof is in the box office.

[Lutz]

DePalma only uses Hitchcock as a launching pad but what he develops is very different and worthwhile in it's own right.

But, ah, why am I mansplaining this?

By using the term "ripoff" you're really just validating the original point about "genuine DePalma fans" aka anyone who has sat down to watch and enjoy and engage with a good deal of his work...

FYI it is commonly agreed that DePalma's best work (google "Brian DePalma red period" it's a real thing!) starts with SISTERS and ends with BODY DOUBLE. The Untouchables doesn't fall within that range.

[klauswhereareyou]

My De Palma top 10 as of today (seen every movie except Get to Know Your Rabbit):

1. Carlito's Way
2. Carrie
3. Body Double
4. Femme Fatale
5. Casualties of War
6. Phantom of the Paradise
7. Snake Eyes
8. Dressed to Kill
9. Blow Out
10. Obsession

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Oh so now you're talking about "genuine" DePalma fans?

I would think genuine DePalma fans (and general MOVIE fans) would pick a real Hitchcock film over one of his many ripoff attempts, because "genuine" fans would recognize it as such.

You also said this:

"Blow Out is considered by many to be De Palma's best film"

Considering it was a flop, I again disagree. You conveniently neglected to add that you were only talking about "genuine" DePalma fans, not the masses who go to the movies. So my assumption stands. Many would consider Untouchables or Scarface his best film, and the proof is in the box office.

Well done for trolling a thread about one of these supposed Hitchcock ripoff attempts.

Since when does a film's box office chops indicate quality or critical standing? By that logic classics like Vertigo, Blade Runner and The Night of the Hunter would still be considered critical flops.

I don't find anything more boring than the De Palma "Hitchcock rip-off" allegation. I takes a total lack of understanding of what De Palma does and how opposed Hitchcock's and De Palma's styles are. I get it, you are not a De Palma fan. But also please don't tell me what De Palma fans are supposed to like when you show nothing but contempt for his most personal films.

BTW did you miss the part where I mention that there used to be a great De Palma fan forum on the web and therefore therefore unlike you I don't have to go by assumptions ?

Anyways, that's all to you from me, I really don't think you are worth the energy.

[notops]

My DePalma list:
1. Carlito's Way
2. Body Double
3. Blow Out
4. Dressed To Kill
5. Carrie
6. Femme Fatale
7. Mission: Impossible
8. Scarface
9. The Untouchables
10.Phantom of Paradise

[spargs]

My De Palma Top 10:

1. Blow Out
2. Femme Fatale
3. Scarface
4. Carrie
5. Carlito's Way
6. Dressed to Kill
7. Body Double
8. Obsession
9. Sisters
10. Phantom of the Paradise

I have not seen The Wedding Party, Get to Know Your Rabbit, Home Movies, and Redacted.

Roger Ebert was a big admirer of De Palma... by my count, he gave 14 of his films a rating of 3 stars or higher. One of the current reviewers on rogerebert.com, Peter Sobczynski, has posted about his love of De Palma and actually did a blog entry a couple years ago ranking De Palma's films - here's the link for those interested in reading... http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and...s-films-ranked

[klauswhereareyou]

There are very few directors in this day and age that don't "rip-off" someone. I like Woody Allen but almost everyone of his films is a rip-off of someone, but I guess it's okay to rip-off art house directors.

[dallywhitty]

There's a difference between being inspired and plain ripping off other artists. Yes, his films are clearly inspired by Hitchcock's, but I don't feel like I'm watching a poor man's Hitchcock imitation when I'm watching Dressed to Kill. When it all comes down to it, De Palma births something new out of his influences. He's not Tarantino.

I think the 'a genuine De Palma fan would pick [insert title here] as the best' statement is a silly argument, though. That's like saying a true Lynch fan shouldn't regard Blue Velvet as their favourite because it's too mainstream.

[thornhill]

Originally Posted by spargs

My De Palma Top 10:

1. Blow Out
2. Femme Fatale
3. Scarface
4. Carrie
5. Carlito's Way
6. Dressed to Kill
7. Body Double
8. Obsession
9. Sisters
10. Phantom of the Paradise

I'd love to have Femme Fatale on Blu!

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by thornhill

I'd love to have Femme Fatale on Blu!

As I'd gather just about everyone posting in this thread! Heck, Raising Cain isn't in my top ten of his movies and I'd love to see a release of that too!

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Well done for trolling a thread about one of these supposed Hitchcock ripoff attempts.

Since when does a film's box office chops indicate quality or critical standing? By that logic classics like Vertigo, Blade Runner and The Night of the Hunter would still be considered critical flops.

I don't find anything more boring than the De Palma "Hitchcock rip-off" allegation. I takes a total lack of understanding of what De Palma does and how opposed Hitchcock's and De Palma's styles are. I get it, you are not a De Palma fan. But also please don't tell me what De Palma fans are supposed to like when you show nothing but contempt for his most personal films.

BTW did you miss the part where I mention that there used to be a great De Palma fan forum on the web and therefore therefore unlike you I don't have to go by assumptions ?

Anyways, that's all to you from me, I really don't think you are worth the energy.

You're doing this yourself when talking about the Untouchables. I think it's a fantastically fun film, and one that I can watch over and over again. You're right, it's not one of his more personal films because he was a hired gun, but it still displays a lot of stylistic flourishes that would be absent from a lesser director.

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

There are very few directors in this day and age that don't "rip-off" someone. I like Woody Allen but almost everyone of his films is a rip-off of someone, but I guess it's okay to rip-off art house directors.

As for Hitchcock rip-off, I've used that term myself in an affectionate way. I don't feel like he's truly ripping off Hitchcock but those films do use plot points and scenes from Hitchcock as a major jumping off point, and in a very obvious way. It doesn't take an expert to peg Obsession as being a re-dress of Vertigo in the most basic sense. But you can accept that fact and still enjoy the film on its own merits because of the style and technique De Palma brings to it.

[Lutz]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

There are very few directors in this day and age that don't "rip-off" someone. I like Woody Allen but almost everyone of his films is a rip-off of someone, but I guess it's okay to rip-off art house directors.

But there is also a denial and lack of understanding regarding cinematic language in statements about films being a "rip off". I never see anyone telling an author they rip off other authors because they are using English to write their novel instead of creating a new language...

This is what Greenaway is talking about when he describes "visual language".