Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by reanimator

Darth Vader's turn can be seen as the resolution to the Darth Vader subplot, but not the resolution of the OT.

The OT is definitely about Luke's journey. He's the audience character. The one we're supposed to relate to. A farm boy who wants to go somewhere beyond his dreary life and when he goes on this journey, we live vicariously through him.

Vader becomes his conflict. At first, merely as foe. Later, Vader becomes a deeper, multi-layered conflict. On one level, he believes there is still good left in his father. But on another level, Vader represents what Luke could become.

But while Vader is the central focus of Luke's conflict, Luke is the central focus of the film, along with the rest of the OT. It is more about him than it is Vader. In the end, Luke is proven right and, yes, Vader saves his son. It's a very powerful moment that for a short second brings the focus on Vader.

However, the argument is that Vader is the central focus of the saga. But, watching these films, the PT is clearly about the father and the OT is clearly about the son.

[fat_rancor_keeper]

"But, watching these films, the PT is clearly about the father and the OT is clearly about the son."

And the ST will be about the Holy Force Spirit!



Seriously though, great discussion in here.

[Hardback247]

I can't decide if it really is worth owning the Prequel Trilogy on Blu-Ray. I'm not talking about the quality of the movies themselves, I'm talking about the presentations. The Phantom Menace has DNR, and Attack of the Clones has a teal tint added. I can't decide for myself if they ruin the look or not.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

I can't decide if it really is worth owning the Prequel Trilogy on Blu-Ray. I'm not talking about the quality of the movies themselves, I'm talking about the presentations. The Phantom Menace has DNR, and Attack of the Clones has a teal tint added. I can't decide for myself if they ruin the look or not.

Don't forget, they screwed up the audio too.
The lightsabers no longer "vibrate" with deep bass

[octagon]

Originally Posted by reanimator

That's actually not the case, not from the standpoint of screenwriting.

The first act of STAR WARS '77 ends with Luke Skywalker stating "I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father." All of the adventures that follow are traced back to this one decision by Luke Skywalker -- all the way through the third act of RETURN OF THE JEDI. Luke Skywalker's quest to become a Jedi Knight forms the entire through-line of the Original Trilogy. Therefore...

The climax of the OT occurs once Darth Vader has been defeated and Luke Skywalker states "You failed, your highness. I am a Jedi like my father before me." That's why that line is worded so precisely -- to complete the journey Luke started in STAR WARS '77.

Exactly. And once TPM is thrown into the mix one can then make the case that Vader turning away from the dark side and destroying the emperor is the climax of the saga because it fulfills the prophecy of the Chosen One. One the prophecy is introduced one could make the case that the focus of that sequence in Jedi does shift from Luke to Anakin/Vader.

Originally Posted by reanimator

It gets confusing because the redemption of Darth Vader is the central focus of RETURN OF THE JEDI -- not the entire trilogy, just the ROTJ episode. In short, Darth Vader's turn can be seen as the resolution to the Darth Vader subplot, but not the resolution of the OT.

I think things are also muddled by the fact that Jedi itself was pretty muddled. While the central storyline of Jedi was fairly well executed and very compelling, there was a lot of clutter too and that kind of muddied the water.

And given all the talk of rhyming it's ironic that Sith sort of suffered from the same 'okay, we have a lot of cool stuff we haven't gotten around to yet, let's shoe-horn it in here somewhere' approach. It's as if the clutter in both Jedi and Sith were unintentional meta-mirroring

[Riddler95]

Does anyone know where I can find a high res version of this photo?

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

Does anyone know where I can find a high res version of this photo?

I can get you one tomorrow off the BD.

[LRSVDR]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

Does anyone know where I can find a high res version of this photo?

[Show spoiler]

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by octagon

It's as if the clutter in both Jedi and Sith were unintentional meta-mirroring

Good point, it's fairly obvious that Lucas gave himself far too much to resolve in both of the trilogy cappers. For Jedi they had plans for a sequel trilogy but Lucas decided to shut up shop, so stuff like "the other" had to be shoehorned in at the last minute, and on Sith Lucas had spent the prior two movies pissing about with his digital tools before telling the prequel story that he'd really wanted to tell all along.

[MifuneFan]

This is on sale for about $45 shipped from Amazon UK


https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-...lu-ray/138176/

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I can get you one tomorrow off the BD.

Originally Posted by LRSVDR

[Show spoiler]

Thank you both so much.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by reanimator

That's actually not the case, not from the standpoint of screenwriting.

The first act of STAR WARS '77 ends with Luke Skywalker stating "I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father." All of the adventures that follow are traced back to this one decision by Luke Skywalker -- all the way through the third act of RETURN OF THE JEDI. Luke Skywalker's quest to become a Jedi Knight forms the entire through-line of the Original Trilogy. Therefore...

The climax of the OT occurs once Darth Vader has been defeated and Luke Skywalker states "You failed, your highness. I am a Jedi like my father before me." That's why that line is worded so precisely -- to complete the journey Luke started in STAR WARS '77.

It gets confusing because the redemption of Darth Vader is the central focus of RETURN OF THE JEDI -- not the entire trilogy, just the ROTJ episode. In short, Darth Vader's turn can be seen as the resolution to the Darth Vader subplot, but not the resolution of the OT.

Hmm, and that looming figure that stands larger than every other on any poster that is ever seen is just a small part of the bigger Luke Skywalker story? Sell that to people that don't know better because I just cannot buy it.

At the least the old trilogy is about the Skywalker family.

At the best the original trilogy is the Annakin Skywalker story.

Revisionism is to ignore that it was meant to be a bigger story very early on back to the original script notes that were pre Star Wars inception that puts the 6 films on a clear path.

Sure Lucas had other story write ups and he also had to cater to budgets and technology just like him saying he didn't allow himself to think of bigger because he couldn't afford it. Doesn't mean that it changes what he wanted.

I trust his true vision warts and all. The final saga is his final statement and I appreciate it for what it is down to the last questionable.....Noooooooooo

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Hmm, and that looming figure that stands larger than every other on any poster that is ever seen is just a small part of the bigger Luke Skywalker story? Sell that to people that don't know better because I just cannot buy it.

At the least the old trilogy is about the Skywalker family.

At the best the original trilogy is the Annakin Skywalker story.

Revisionism is to ignore that it was meant to be a bigger story very early on back to the original script notes that were pre Star Wars inception that puts the 6 films on a clear path.

Sure Lucas had other story write ups and he also had to cater to budgets and technology just like him saying he didn't allow himself to think of bigger because he couldn't afford it. Doesn't mean that it changes what he wanted.

I trust his true vision warts and all. The final saga is his final statement and I appreciate it for what it is down to the last questionable.....Noooooooooo

I don't believe anyone is making out that Vader is "just a small part" in any story.

It's a bit much to call the OT the "Anakin Skywalker story" in any sense.

Anakin Skywalker was actually dead (from every point of view) and Darth Vader was not Luke's father until 1978 when the continuing story reconceived as Luke redeeming and saving his living father, rather than honouring the name of a dead one.

Vader was simply Luke's nemesis up to till the shocking twist of ESB.

And Vader continued to be the Emperor's slave. And effectively takes no active part until his sudden volt face at the end.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by Martoto

I don't believe anyone is making out that Vader is "just a small part" in any story.

It's a bit much to call the OT the "Anakin Skywalker story" in any sense.

Anakin Skywalker was actually dead (from every point of view) and Darth Vader was not Luke's father until 1978 when the continuing story reconceived as Luke redeeming and saving his living father, rather than honouring the name of a dead one.

Vader was simply Luke's nemesis up to till the shocking twist of ESB.

And Vader continued to be the Emperor's slave. And effectively takes no active part until his sudden volt face at the end.

Empire was in 1980.

Also, in Empire, Vader asked Luke to join him and "together, we will destroy the Emperor."

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Empire was in 1980.

Also, in Empire, Vader asked Luke to join him and "together, we will destroy the Emperor."

It was written in 1978-79. That was his point.

[Martoto]

Actually he told Luke "You can destroy the emperor", and then "...we can rule the galaxy as father and son."

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

It was written in 1978-79. That was his point.

And it was originally written as Obi-Wan killed your father. Kershner changed it and only told Mark what the line really was.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

And it was originally written as Obi-Wan killed your father. Kershner changed it and only told Mark what the line really was.

No. The pages had that printed on them to prevent the real twist leaking. Kershner did not change the identity of Luke's father. That had already been written by Lucas and Kasdan.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Martoto

No. The pages had that printed on them to prevent the real twist leaking. Kershner did not change the identity of Luke's father. That had already been written by Lucas and Kasdan.

I learned months ago not to argue with Max.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

Thank you both so much.

I'll have to do that tonight. I'll get you the exact shot.