Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

George Lucas:

“Han Solo was going to marry Leia, and you look back and say, ‘Should he be a cold-blooded killer?’” Lucas asks. “Because I was thinking mythologically—should he be a cowboy, should he be John Wayne? And I said, ‘Yeah, he should be John Wayne.’ And when you’re John Wayne, you don’t shoot people [first]—you let them have the first shot. It’s a mythological reality that we hope our society pays attention to.”

I don't know what westerns Lucas has been watching, but in about five billion of them, the good guy lets the bad guy DRAW first, not SHOOT first. In the case of the original Star Wars, Greedo has the drop on Solo and has drawn his weapon. According to American westerns, that's ballgame. Greedo then tells Solo he's going to kill him, and starts gasbagging, giving Solo time to take him out.

John Wayne waits for bad guys to shoot first? Um...

Best John Wayne Movie Quotes - YouTube

I can't help it, this is the last one.

It isn't so much John Wayne shooting first, it is a code of honor that says you are in serious danger. I don't think Lucas meant it literally, but rather that you don't plug someone unless you truly believe its over.

What put Han over the edge is his ship. He could have talked to Jabba, but he didn't appreciate that Greedo/Jabba was going to take something on the side.

Han's Original Scenes : Han Shot First! - YouTube

What I find interesting is Greedo telling Han to get up in this take. I also hear a sound before the blast. It is probably static, but it still drives home the John Wayne honor thing.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Didn't I say I conceded? I believe he meant real mother now that I studied scene and "images" works for me.

My comment was in regards to step parents and my experience. Nothing loose about that argument. Matter of fact, it is quite common when people dedscribe dead beat dads that skip out on child support and raising kids. The real dad is the one that is there for them and is often described that way. .

Again. You're providing an entirely different context to the one that is clearly in question to justify a position (which I acknowledge you have conceded).

It's like saying that the answer could be Wednesday, if someone today asked what tomorrow is. Of course that would be if it wasn't Thursday today (ignoring the fact that it is), and only if it was actually Tuesday today (which it isn't), and you were being asked about that instead (which you aren't).

The parameters are unambiguous enough to preclude any discussion that is not pertinent to them.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Oh of course. George got rid of him like so many others

I meant alive.
I know George fired him after Empire...

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Again. You're providing an entirely different context to the one that is clearly in question to justify a position (which I acknowledge you have conceded).

It's like saying that the answer could be Wednesday, if someone today asked what tomorrow is. Of course that would be if it wasn't Thursday today (ignoring the fact that it is), and only if it was actually Tuesday today (which it isn't), and you were being asked about that instead (which you aren't).

The parameters are unambiguous enough to preclude any discussion that is not pertinent to them.

That is your opinion. I hve brought facts to back my view the best I can. What Luke or George was thinking is not proven as Fact. I have never claimed I absolutely knew what the truth is, but I am saying how the scenarios could be true. However, just like the 6 movies now being adjusted to be seen in order, it also follows that some things may take a little thinking to add up. That is what film/art is all about. George has a great imagination and I don't think it is too hard to see his vision. It certainly isn't a plot hole.

[Fairfax]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That was uncalled for. I will bow out now. I thought it was a good discussion and I tried to bring something new to the table. I will not post anymore on this subject.

Shortest flounce in history. Elvis has not left the building.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Oh of course. George got rid of him like so many others

Yeah, what a loss. He's been sooooo successful since.


Who are the "so many others" anyway? Seems to me the same people keep working with him over & over. Skywalker has had the same senior crew since the '80s. ILM's turnover rate is also very low. Just making nasty comments out of spite?

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That is your opinion. I hve brought facts to back my view the best I can. What Luke or George was thinking is not proven as Fact. I have never claimed I absolutely knew what the truth is, but I am saying how the scenarios could be true. However, just like the 6 movies now being adjusted to be seen in order, it also follows that some things may take a little thinking to add up. That is what film/art is all about. George has a great imagination and I don't think it is too hard to see his vision. It certainly isn't a plot hole.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Sorry I don't agree with you. It is like a religion and I undestand that. There are some things you aren't going to change no matter how much you bring to the table.

It is like that youtube clip where so many of the Force Wakens cast are exclaiming Han shot first and Abrams demands you watch 4,5,6 and then the prequels if at all.

Most obviously don't know that Greedo (from the film angle) never shot at all, but it isn't about facts, it is about making fun of George Lucas.

Elvis has really left this time. I enjoyed the many points of view, but unfortumately it starts getting personal and I want to keep it fun and not add to the problems.

[CrowFan]

Have any of you watched the doc "I Am Your Father"? It's about David Prowse and how disgruntled he is with Lucasfilm. He was never told they were shooting the unmasked scene with Sebastian Shaw...and didn't even know about it until he saw the movie in theaters. Interesting doc though. It's on Netflix.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That was uncalled for. I will bow out now. I thought it was a good discussion and I tried to bring something new to the table. I will not post anymore on this subject.

Well, we all saw how that turned out.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Elvis has really left this time. I enjoyed the many points of view, but unfortumately it starts getting personal and I want to keep it fun and not add to the problems.

Fool me once...

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by CrowFan

Have any of you watched the doc "I Am Your Father"? It's about David Prowse and how disgruntled he is with Lucasfilm. He was never told they were shooting the unmasked scene with Sebastian Shaw...and didn't even know about it until he saw the movie in theaters. Interesting doc though. It's on Netflix.

Yep me and the family actually were watching it last week. Pretty enjoyable. I feel bad for the guy. It also sucks they couldn't show the recreation they did of that scene with Prowse.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Sorry I don't agree with you. It is like a religion and I undestand that. There are some things you aren't going to change no matter how much you bring to the table.

It is like that youtube clip where so many of the Force Wakens cast are exclaiming Han shot first and Abrams demands you watch 4,5,6 and then the prequels if at all.

Most obviously don't know that Greedo (from the film angle) never shot at all, but it isn't about facts, it is about making fun of George Lucas.

Elvis has really left this time. I enjoyed the many points of view, but unfortumately it starts getting personal and I want to keep it fun and not add to the problems.

Why do you say people don't know that Greedo never shot?

[CrowFan]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

Yep me and the family actually were watching it last week. Pretty enjoyable. I feel bad for the guy. It also sucks they couldn't show the recreation they did of that scene with Prowse.

Yeah I wanted to see that footage so bad!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by CrowFan

Have any of you watched the doc "I Am Your Father"? It's about David Prowse and how disgruntled he is with Lucasfilm. He was never told they were shooting the unmasked scene with Sebastian Shaw...and didn't even know about it until he saw the movie in theaters. Interesting doc though. It's on Netflix.

What they leave out is that he couldn't be trusted with that information.


He leaked like crazy during the shooting of Empire.

[CrowFan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

What they leave out is that he couldn't be trusted with that information.


He leaked like crazy during the shooting of Empire.

Yeah they definitely touched on that in the doc. Personally I think Sebastian Shaw was the better choice anyway. Prowse just didn't have the acting chops to for that scene, and he was still relatively young looking.

[Alan_Grant]

Originally Posted by CrowFan

Have any of you watched the doc "I Am Your Father"? It's about David Prowse and how disgruntled he is with Lucasfilm. He was never told they were shooting the unmasked scene with Sebastian Shaw...and didn't even know about it until he saw the movie in theaters. Interesting doc though. It's on Netflix.

It's cause he's a dick

[Ernest Rister]

John Wayne don't shoot first...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7lCYxEOOCRU

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

The new bluray versions are an alternate versions that I feel are not "shitty", but rather a more accurate rendition of the artist current intent.

But of course some fans will never understand that, and will never even try.

This doesn't make sense. What's not to understand? Yes, the new blu-ray versions are the artist's current intent. I also think they are shitty. These two statements aren't mutually exclusive.

I don't trust the artist's vision and intent because he isn't consistent. He's made changes on all the theatrical and home video releases of the movies.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

This doesn't make sense. What's not to understand? Yes, the new blu-ray versions are the artist's current intent. I also think they are shitty. These two statements aren't mutually exclusive.

I don't trust the artist's vision and intent because he isn't consistent. He's made changes on all the theatrical and home video releases of the movies.

If people want me to leave then my quotes need not be pulled up and micontrued.

I stated how I felt and I backed up my claims and I feel with my explanation that the ideas are consistent.

You don't, fair enough.

[Fairfax]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Well, we all saw how that turned out.

Fool me once...

I hope this time wasn't a surprise.