Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

Speaking of that word, "Noooooo", until the Blu-ray release of ROTJ, that film was the only one in the saga to have not featured someone saying it. I honestly can't remember if it's said in TFA but I hope it is; it's a Star Wars tradition, like someone losing a limb in each film.

It's like poetry...

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

Speaking of that word, "Noooooo", until the Blu-ray release of ROTJ, that film was the only one in the saga to have not featured someone saying it. I honestly can't remember if it's said in TFA but I hope it is; it's a Star Wars tradition, like someone losing a limb in each film.

Ahem.

Star Wars NO! - YouTube

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

It's as if Star Wars was in part, based on some campy programming Lucas enjoyed as a kid...

It may have been, but Lucas was also influenced by ancient and classical literature and of course, Kurosawa films. He seems to have taken a serial premise and applied a more refined execution steeped in the aforementioned disciplines.

[ElvisForever]

That is the thing with OT fans, they kinda forget when it is the beloved "unaltered" trilogy.

But from someone that was there from the very first movie seeing them in every possible way as an ADULT, I didn't take it so seriously with the fine tooth comb, neither did I with the new prequels and come to enjoy the 8 films for what they are. Not perfect, but still the best scifi serial ever!

Nooooo is a tradition and I have accepted in ROTJ.

On a side note, does anybody else find Lukes Noooo a tiny bit babyish?

He didn't lose a wife, he didn't lose a parent to being captured (hell he had no memory of his mom??), he didn't lose a child. Hell other than Aunt and Uncle who does not have the same bond, and Oi Wan essentially give him advice lullabies, Luke's Noooooo is the most overdone version in the complete history of Star Wars...not that I don't love it. Lol. Irony is that it is the the supposed best Star Wars movie. Not in my book, and according to numbers, not even close bud.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That is the thing with OT fans, they kinda forget when it is the beloved "unaltered" trilogy.

But from someone that was there from the very first movie seeing them in every possible way as an ADULT, I didn't take it so seriously with the fine tooth comb, neither did I with the new prequels and come to enjoy the 8 films for what they are. Not perfect, but still the best scifi serial ever!

Nooooo is a tradition and I have accepted in ROTJ.

OT fans forget what?

It appears you do take it seriously as any criticism of the prequels, constructive or otherwise is met with condesending generalizations (see directly above) and vacant dismissals based on a singular assumption.

You did convince me of one thing though, I'm giving the prequels another shot as I haven't seen them since their initial home video release, and I can continue this conversation with them freshly in mind. I find this topic immensely discussable as this level of revisionism and divisiveness is unparalleled in pop culture (as far as I can measure of my own perception).

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

I like to pretend the earth is flat.

Prior to writing that sentence, when was the last time you thought about or accounted for or in any way acknowledged the curvature of the earth?

The fact that the earth is not flat might be impossible to deny but it's pretty easy to ignore, no?

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

It may have been, but Lucas was also influenced by ancient and classical literature and of course, Kurosawa films. He seems to have taken a serial premise and applied a more refined execution steeped in the aforementioned disciplines.

Great point. I doubt the Star Wars saga would have been as influential as it has if Lucas had really tried to make it as a true throwback to the campy serials by overloading it with all the childish, cartoonish stuff that the old serials had. He really seemed to try to take the serial concept to a new level, with state of the art special effects, grander music, better acting, a more resonant/mythologically based story, etc.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Maybe it wasn't meant to be a twist? Just throwing that out there. Lucas had lots of evidence of going toward Vader being something bigger. It is there from the first poster. It is there from the first moment he busts that door down with the Stormtrooper posse.

Makes perfect sense, and totally fits all of the stories we've all heard about the complete lack of secrecy surrounding the reveal during principal photography. Clearly it was meant as just another piece of exposition, filling a character in on something we already knew, to move the story along.

Well done as usual, genesim.

Originally Posted by octagon

Prior to writing that sentence, when was the last time you thought about or accounted for or in any way acknowledged the curvature of the earth?

The fact that the earth is not flat might be impossible to deny but it's pretty easy to ignore, no?

Come on, octagon - you know there's no place for rationality in this discussion. We make poorly-conceived arguments based on emotion around these parts...

[Class316]

I want unaltered OT on blu ray, but my only gripe with the unaltered OT is Sebastian Shaw's age. He is born in 1905. If ROTJ was done filming in 1982 that would make him 77.

Let's assume Anakin was 10 in Phantom Manace.

That makes him 20 in AOTC. 3 years later in ROTS he is 23.

We have about 18 years from ep 3 to 4. That makes him 41.

3 years later it's ESB. He's 44. In one more year it's ROTJ, he is 45. So that's 32 years unaccounted for. UGH!

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Class316

I want unaltered OT on blu ray, but my only grip with the unaltered OT is Sebastian Shaw's age. He is born in 1905. If ROTJ was done filming in 1982 that would make him 77.

Let's assume Anakin was 10 in Phantom Manace.

That makes him 20 in AOTC. 3 years later in ROTS he is 23.

We have about 18 years from ep 3 to 4. That makes him 41.

3 years later it's ESB. He's 44. In one more year it's ROTJ, he is 42. So that's 35 years unaccounted for. UGH!

To be fair, it's not like Lucas had a ton of time between Jedi and Phantom Menace to work out the timeline properly...

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

On a side note, does anybody else find Lukes Noooo a tiny bit babyish?

I think that's a bit churlish. Hammill always comes across in the films as though he genuinely believes in it all. And back in 1980, his response to Vader's declaration was pretty much the same as everyone else's in the cinema. (I do recall rooting for Vader in that duel, though; Luke always came across as a bit of a drip, to be honest.)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Nope - Ernest Rister.

As a lark, shooting the bull on the old IGN and HTF boards, I was thinking of how I would show the SW films to my new-born niece. Figured Chronological wouldn't work because it ruins the Vader reveal, and order of release doesn't really work, either, because it ends on such a down note. I thought of The Godfather Part II, and decided I'd just use the Prequels as an extended flashback after Empire, before returning to the rousing finale of Jedi.

I didn't think anything of it, someone copied and pasted it on TheForce.net, and it kinda spread around other Star Wars boards. So some fellow creates a webpage and uses the idea, spelled my name wrong, and then dropped Phantom Menace because for him, it didn't add anything to the story, and he called his version the Machete Order (I'm assuming it's a reference to the Robert Rodriguez films, which I've never seen).

So, there ya go.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Understanding chronology isn't the same thing as comprehending a story. Lucas said he wrote the series for 12-year-old boys, called the original film a Disney film...you don't need to know anything about the Prequels for 12 year olds to understand the original Star Wars...or in my case, six year olds. No way in hell would I rob a child or even a 12 year old of the greatest twist ending in Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back.

Possibly true (although the lack of a single teen-aged girl in the OT tells me that Lucas didn't really understand what 12-year-old boys think about). But did he also write the prequels for 12-year-olds? Certainly, the boy Skywalker and Jar-Jar were written for young kids (and my 7-year-old grandson loved Jar-Jar), but they also had convoluted and confusing plots about the trade federation, political maneuvering and Padme's doppelgänger. Frankly, I don't understand how a young kid could understand many elements of the prequels.

I was about to write, "...and I say that as someone who doesn't think the prequels are as bad as everyone makes out", but then I was also going to write, "...except for the dialog, acting of the two leads, Jar Jar, poor character development and over-reliance on CGI" and so once again realized that they were pretty bad. But the 7-year-old g-kid loved Episode I anyway when I watched it with him and he became a Star Wars freak with knowledge of every single obscure character and plot line even before seeing any of the films (via books, Legos, etc.).

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Figured Chronological wouldn't work because it ruins the Vader reveal, and order of release doesn't really work, either, because it ends on such a down note. I thought of The Godfather Part II, and decided I'd just use the Prequels as an extended flashback after Empire, before returning to the rousing finale of Jedi.

That's exactly what I've always thought, including the Godfather reference. 4,5,1,2,3,6,7. (Although when "Rogue One" is released on HV, should it be RO, 4, 5, 1,2,3,6,7 or 4,5,1,2,3,RO, 6,7?) But as per my post above, when my g-kid (aged 7) wanted to see a Star Wars film at my house and I explained the different possible orders, he still wanted to start with Episode I. When I explained that there was a big reveal in the OT that he'd want to see before seeing the prequels, he said he already knew that Vader was Luke's father, so he didn't care. (And don't anyone complain that was a spoiler because I will ignore such silliness).

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I was about to write, "...and I say that as someone who doesn't think the prequels are as bad as everyone makes out", but then I was also going to write, "...except for the dialog, acting of the two leads, Jar Jar, poor character development and over-reliance on CGI" and so once again realized that they were pretty bad. But the 7-year-old g-kid loved Episode I anyway when I watched it with him and he became a Star Wars freak with knowledge of every single obscure character and plot line even before seeing any of the films (via books, Legos, etc.).

Sounds like me haha

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

But did he also write the prequels for 12-year-olds? Certainly, the boy Skywalker and Jar-Jar were written for young kids (and my 7-year-old grandson loved Jar-Jar), but they also had convoluted and confusing plots about the trade federation, political maneuvering and Padme's doppelgänger. Frankly, I don't understand how a young kid could understand many elements of the prequels.

Jar Jar was in the film precisely because of all those political elements. Like the conversation in A New Hope between Tarkin and his generals, much of it would go over the head of the film's target audience. It's only later in life, when the audience is older, that they appreciate a lot of what they couldn't understand first time round.

You mentioned "over-reliance on CGI". You do know that there's more practical effects in The Phantom Menace than in any of the original films, don't you?

[Hardback247]

TFA also had at least 200 more visual effects shots than TPM.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

...he said he already knew that Vader was Luke's father, so he didn't care.

Yeah, I suppose everyone knows it now, whether they've seen the films or not. It's always a shame when these big twists from old films become common knowledge. When my dear, departed mum saw Psycho at the cinema back in the sixties, it was preceded by a short film hosted by the director himself, who warned the audience not to reveal the ending. And she didn't.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

TFA also had at least 200 more visual effects shots than TPM.

I never knew that. They kept that quiet in the run-up to the film. Such was the retro-attitude of the makers of that movie, I was expecting it to be silent and black and white when I went the pictures to see it.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

Yeah, I suppose everyone knows it now, whether they've seen the films or not. It's always a shame when these big twists from old films become common knowledge. When my dear, departed mum saw Psycho at the cinema back in the sixties, it was preceded by a short film hosted by the director himself, who warned the audience not to reveal the ending. And she didn't.

It's amazing that in big cities, films like Star Wars played for a year or more and for the most part, people did not reveal the spoilers. I saw Star Wars in the original 70mm run, but months after it opened (I saw it after "Close Encounters" and that didn't open until November 16th) and I knew virtually nothing about it aside from that it was like a high budget version of a serial, that it had two robots and that it (obviously) was about wars in space. However, I probably saw Empire within the first few weeks of opening, maybe even sooner, although not when there were still big lines, although I don't remember people spoiling that reveal either.

With the ubiquity of media today, not to mention all the discussion about movies on the web, I think surprising reveals are dead today. It's not about the reveal anymore, it's about how you get to the reveal.