Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

we saw she could do Jedi mind tricks with no training, we saw she could Force pull lightsabers, we saw she could fight with a lightsaber and hold her own against the villain having never used one before.

Sigh... AGAIN with the "no training" argument, huh?

If you paid attention to the Starkiller Base duel, you'll see that Rey was pretty sloppy with the lightsaber. Not only that, but AGAIN, Kylo was physically and emotionally crippled. And his orders were to bring Rey to Snoke alive. He was purposefully holding back.

The Last Jedi goes out of its way to define Rey and Kylo as counterbalanced nexuses of the light and dark side, respectively. Kylo’s strength grew to dangerous levels, so the Force awoke in Rey and jumped her to that same level of ability. The Force can do this; Luke shot a missile into a two-meter wide thermal exhaust port on the Death Star without the aid of a sophisticated targeting computer, based solely on the coercion of a voice in his head telling him to ‘use the Force’, in addition to five minutes aboard the Millennium Falcon blocking blaster bolts. The Force is capable of more than any Jedi or Sith interpretation of it, more than the sum of everything we’ve been shown across all forms of media. To quote Hamlet, ‘There are more things in heaven and earth…/Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.’

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

She wasn't flying, it was a Force pull.

What? I was being hypothetical about Rey, what was a Force pull?

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

What? I was being hypothetical about Rey, what was a Force pull?

Never mind that.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Sigh... AGAIN with the "no training" argument, huh?

If you paid attention to the Starkiller Base duel, you'll see that Rey was pretty sloppy with the lightsaber. Not only that, but AGAIN, Kylo was physically and emotionally crippled. And his orders were to bring Rey to Snoke alive. He was purposefully holding back.

The Last Jedi goes out of it’s way to define Rey and Kylo as counterbalanced nexuses of the light and dark side, respectively. Kylo’s strength grew to dangerous levels, so the Force awoke in Rey and jumped her to that same level of ability. The Force can do this; Luke shot a missile into a two-meter wide thermal exhaust port on the Death Star without the aid of a sophisticated targeting computer, based solely on the coercion of a voice in his head telling him to ‘use the Force’, in addition to five minutes aboard the Millennium Falcon blocking blaster bolts. The Force is capable of more than any Jedi or Sith interpretation of it, more than the sum of everything we’ve been shown across all forms of media. To quote Hamlet, ‘There are more things in heaven and earth…/Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.’

My response was to your show don’t tell comment. So apparently a character can do anything at all as long as they show them doing it. All I was doing was pointing out everything she does in TFA, and that’s where these criticisms originally started with Rey.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by reanimator

At least Luke has a last name.

Originally Posted by reanimator

It speaks to how thinly drawn her character is.

This is one of the most desperate criticisms I’ve read about Rey.

She was abandoned when she was a small child and has no family. Makes sense that she doesn’t have a last name, and there’s nothing thinly drawn about that aspect of her character or her complex journey of self discovery.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Luke is established as a good pilot. But, in this movie, we get one throwaway line that Rey's flown ships yet doesn't know how she became an ace pilot with sick evasive tactical moves in a complicated ship. Does the Force teach you which buttons to press and switches to switch?

How? Because he gets cocky and insists he’s “not such a bad pilot”? He’s never been in a starfigter before and instantously becomes the best X-Wing pilot in the galaxy.

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by spanky87

She was abandoned when she was a small child and has no family. Makes sense that she doesn’t have a last name,

Then how does she have a first name?

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

In ANH, we see Luke train with a lightsaber BECAUSE Ben thinks it's necessary. Luke doesn't use his lightsaber until the end of the next movie after he was trained by a Jedi master.

That’s good for Luke. Rey doesn’t have to follow the same exact trajectory as him, nor do I want her to.

By the way, do we know how Luke learned to sword fight? Or how he knew how to build a lightsaber? How to force choke? He seems pretty advanced from Empire to Jedi when he had no contact with obi wan or Yoda in the interim.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Luke Skywalker: Ten thousand? We could almost buy our own ship for that.
Han Solo: But who’s going to fly it kid? You?
Luke Skywalker: You bet I could, I’m not such a bad pilot myself. (starts to get up) We don’t have to sit here and listen…

---------

Wedge Antilles (Red 2): That's impossible! Even for a computer.
Luke: It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

---------
LEADER: You sure you can handle this ship?
BIGGS: Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories.


Biggs Darklighter extended scene - Star Wars: A New Hope - YouTube

Originally Posted by spanky87

How? Because he gets cocky and insists he’s “not such a bad pilot”? He’s never been in a starfigter before and instantously becomes the best X-Wing pilot in the galaxy.

They established Luke has some expertise. I can't even remember TFA. Did Rey literally start a ship she had never been in and out run two TIE fighters with precision moves that would've killed anyone else? Because The Force?

[spanky87]

There’s two key reasons Finn and Rey are able to flee from the First Order on Jakku. Finn gives Rey a crucial tip to “stay low, it confuses their trackers”, and Rey is able to draw on her knowledge of knowing every nook and cranny of the star destroyer wreckage and uses it to her advantage when making the final maneuver.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Star Wars is a hot pile of garbage now.

It has been, ever since the release of The Last Jedi. I can understand some people enjoying Rogue One, but the eighth Episode is 99% trash.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

LEADER: You sure you can handle this ship?
BIGGS: Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories.


Biggs Darklighter extended scene - Star Wars: A New Hope - YouTube

Forgot this scene existed since I haven’t watched the special editions in over 10 years. I don’t think a scene that was added into the film 20 years later helps your argument.

Is the special edition even your preferred version of A New Hope? Or does it become your preferred version just for this argument?

EDIT:

Wait, isn’t that a deleted scene anyway? Makes it even more irrelevant.

[See Rad]

Originally Posted by spanky87

there’s nothing thinly drawn about that aspect of her character or her complex journey of self discovery.

...from Milan to Minsk?

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

It has been, ever since the release of The Last Jedi. I can understand some people enjoying Rogue One, but the eighth Episode is 99% trash.

More trash than the Holiday Special?

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by spanky87

How? Because he gets cocky and insists he’s “not such a bad pilot”? He’s never been in a starfigter before and instantously becomes the best X-Wing pilot in the galaxy.

Yeah but becoming the best X-Wing pilot is kinda the point of his journey, he’s the hero of the film, and that’s the big ending, the culmination of his arc, where he uses the Force for the first time. It’s setup that he used to fly his Skyhopper on Tatooine too, and that he was a good pilot, and used to shoot womp rats from his ship, so it’s not really a big leap.

[chip75]

When did they add The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi to the Saga set?

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by chip75

When did they add The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi to the Saga set?

Hahaha... an outstanding point! I'm afraid it's my fault, this time around. Several pages back, I had the audacity to post about how I'd been watching the whole sweeping saga in "universe order" -- starting with Episode 1 and going right through, including the Disney Era -- and really feeling grateful as a longtime fan that we had TEN kickass live-action films, when we only had three for such a lonnng time. My bad. I opened the door to all the Disney Era toxicity. Should'a known better.

[peschi]

this thread.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Yes, that means showing the audience something about a character, or a skill they have, instead of simply telling them. But that doesn’t then automatically excuse everything a character does from criticism. We saw Rey was a good fighter, we saw she was a good pilot, we saw she could do Jedi mind tricks with no training, we saw she could Force pull lightsabers, we saw she could fight with a lightsaber and hold her own against the villain having never used one before.

So because we are shown all this, it makes it automatically fine, because show don’t tell? So in Episode 9, if Rey takes off like Superman and flies into space, that’s ok too because of show don’t tell?

Sure, why not? She used the Force to sense how Leia flew like Superman so that’s how she learned the trick.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Hahaha... an outstanding point! I'm afraid it's my fault, this time around. Several pages back, I had the audacity to post about how I'd been watching the whole sweeping saga in "universe order" -- starting with Episode 1 and going right through, including the Disney Era -- and really feeling grateful as a longtime fan that we had TEN kickass live-action films, when we only had three for such a lonnng time. My bad. I opened the door to all the Disney Era toxicity. Should'a known better.

Saying something positive about the sequel trilogy on the internet and acknowledging that you enjoy it? That takes balls, my friend.

However,