Game of Thrones: The Complete First Season 4K UHD (2011)

[aerandir92]

Originally Posted by Klaustrofobia

Unfortunately CDON will list so much crap just because of guessing that it will come out. They are not a reliable source at all. But at this one I think it's a pretty safe bet that GoT 8 will be released on UHD.

I think a good way to distinguish between confirmed and speculation is if you're allowed to order or not. Those you can order is probably confirmed, while the others you can just "Observe" so you'll get notified when they can be ordered. They just want to draw people in by putting them up early and have people come back when they get the mail that it is now available.

"Overvåke" -> "Surveil", or better; "Observe". Most of these are quite obvious guesses though

[Malagant]

Originally Posted by aerandir92

"Overvåke" -> "Surveil", or better; "Observe". Most of these are quite obvious guesses though

My impression over several years using CD.ON in Scandinavia is that they are fairly reliable (they list coming movies based on retail-info and serious hints from retailers/others in the industry) but also that one may have to wait a good while before the listed items are open to purchase (like on several other similar online sites).

[Taikero]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Except you DON'T.

$10-$20 for 26 hours of programming on 6 discs, plus extras? Pressing and packaging and marketing costs alone doesn't cover most of that.

TNG Remastered cost *millions*

It cost around $12,460,000 to remaster, according to the best estimate I have (~$70k per episode at 178 episodes).

The cost of that remaster (assuming the cost per episode is actually accurate and not inflated) is a one-time cost that can be recouped over many years via home media sales, licensing to streaming services, digital copy purchases, and such. The benefits of that one-time cost will be reaped for decades to come.

It's not like the remaster suddenly lost value just because the first pressing of the Blu-ray didn't sell as well as they hoped. Next time, just press half as many units, and keep enjoying the proceeds from digital copy sales and streaming licensing.

It's not THAT hard to recoup $12.5 million (or a few more for that matter assuming marketing and packaging and pressing costs) over time. It's just too bad that studios expect to magically recoup all investment costs during the first print run every single time. It's not like there won't be more customers for these sets as time goes by. Disney understands this which is why they invented the "vault" scheme to create artificial scarcity and thereby hike demand on every DVD/Blu-ray pressing (and rumor is they're beginning to abandon that because it's just not necessary now).

For what it's worth, a mere 623,000 seasons sold (89,000 full series sets) at $20 per season would recoup the entire cost of the TNG remastering process.

I'm all for supporting content creators. I just don't buy the crocodile tears when they're trying to gouge consumers.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Yet TV seasons were $100 20 years of inflation ago.

I'm going to go ahead and say that was outright consumer abuse. There isn't a TV show I've ever seen that I'd be willing to spend $100 per season on (even if we didn't have all the internet niceties we do now).

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

You have this perception of them being only worth $20 or whatever because media has become so worthless to a lot of people after Netflix, piracy and other such things changed perceptions. I'm not even saying you're wrong really, now-a-days $60 for a TV season IS too much, you're right, in relative terms. But the interesting thing is that it probably shouldn't be. As said above, TNG really earned its price, but no one cared. It is what it is.

I carry this perception partially because I have a fairly good idea how much the studios wring out of licensing agreements with streaming partners, and also that digital copies are still selling. There are many revenue streams now instead of just one, and TV series that are well-loved are guaranteed over time to recoup the costs of HD remastering.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm ten million times more a movie guy than a TV guy, so this effects me very little. Throw me a complete series set for $50 of something I have nostalgia for like Quantum Leap and I'll buy it, but 9 times out of 10 I'm too busy buying movies to care. For TV lovers though, they're really getting screwed by all this, as more and more shows skip Blu-ray (or UHD now). "Where is The Americans on Blu?!?!?!" they shout, and "I don't buy TV seasons for more than $10-20" is the answer.

I'm very much more a movie guy also, and I have a hard time buying the idea that people have to pay more than $25 per season for the home media release of a TV show to be profitable.

As it is, I see seasons of Outlander (which seems to be a very popular show) going for $10-$17 very soon after release. I'm guessing they're making their money back. Granted, the runtime is 50-60% of what TNG is, so if we're being fair with respect to runtime, $20-$34 might be fair for each season of TNG.

This is still very far off from $60 per season, which I don't see as reasonable given that post-air revenue streams have been dramatically altered within the past couple decades.

[aerandir92]

Originally Posted by Malagant

My impression over several years using CD.ON in Scandinavia is that they are fairly reliable (they list coming movies based on retail-info and serious hints from retailers/others in the industry) but also that one may have to wait a good while before the listed items are open to purchase (like on several other similar online sites).

I ordered Les Miserables 7 months ago, still no release date

[Gacivory]

Outlander is a modern show. TNG required restorations to effects and to image. These aren’t comparable examples.

[Malagant]

Originally Posted by aerandir92

I ordered Les Miserables 7 months ago, still no release date

As I said, "but also that one may have to wait a good while before the listed items are open to purchase (like on several other similar online sites)"

I have informed of my contact with CD.ON with regards to Les Miserables elsewhere in this forum

[Taikero]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Outlander is a modern show. TNG required restorations to effects and to image. These aren’t comparable examples.

I think it's more than fair considering Viacom/CBS (there's been corporate shifting over time) has had 30+ years to profit from Star Trek: TNG (1987-present).

You'd think after all the profit I'm sure they made in that time, they could afford $12.5 million to ensure such a valuable TV property remains relevant and preserved.

I'm honestly a little bit baffled that anybody thinks the Star Trek: TNG restoration was somehow bank-breaking for the studio. It wasn't. They just wanted the consumer to shoulder the costs right away, rather than realizing the overall benefit of their long-term investment over time (again, realized in home media sales, digital copy sales, and streaming license agreements).

---

That's exactly why HBO is releasing Game of Thrones in 4K. It may not pay off fully right now, today, but over time it's absolutely worth the effort considering how much money over the coming decades they're going to continue reaping out of Game of Thrones as new consumers come of age and buy it, and long-time fans re-buy again and again.

For Game of Thrones (in its entirety) in 4K, it's not "If," but "When."

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by Taikero

I think it's more than fair considering Viacom/CBS (there's been corporate shifting over time) has had 30+ years to profit from Star Trek: TNG (1987-present).

You'd think after all the profit I'm sure they made in that time, they could afford $12.5 million to ensure such a valuable TV property remains relevant and preserved.

I'm honestly a little bit baffled that anybody thinks the Star Trek: TNG restoration was somehow bank-breaking for the studio. It wasn't. They just wanted the consumer to shoulder the costs right away, rather than realizing the overall benefit of their long-term investment over time (again, realized in home media sales, digital copy sales, and streaming license agreements).

---

That's exactly why HBO is releasing Game of Thrones in 4K. It may not pay off fully right now, today, but over time it's absolutely worth the effort considering how much money over the coming decades they're going to continue reaping out of Game of Thrones as new consumers come of age and buy it, and long-time fans re-buy again and again.

For Game of Thrones (in its entirety) in 4K, it's not "If," but "When."

Well said, I'm in full agreement.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Taikero

I'm very much more a movie guy also, and I have a hard time buying the idea that people have to pay more than $25 per season for the home media release of a TV show to be profitable.

Not saying your opinion is "wrong" at all, but I think the issue you're having is expecting them to just be out to make some kind of profit. That making some money means they have to do a thing. That's not really how it works, they want to see a sizeable return on investment. The TNG remaster needed to make them a nice big profit off what they put into it, not squeak into profitability. Same for a Blu-ray release of The Americans or whatever.

There are exceptions of course. Labels get by on thinner profit margins, which is why a ton of catalog stuff is farmed out to them now. Warner and Sony are doing MOD releases now which survive with fewer dollars in for fewer dollars out. For the most part though studios do a thing to make a lot more than that thing cost. Same applies to the movies themselves, most squeak into profit at the end of the day, but they don't get sequels unless they made a sizeable return on investment.

[ThePreacher]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Yet TV seasons were $100 20 years of inflation ago. You have this perception of them being only worth $20 or whatever because media has become so worthless to a lot of people after Netflix, piracy and other such things changed perceptions. I'm not even saying you're wrong really, now-a-days $60 for a TV season IS too much, you're right, in relative terms. But the interesting thing is that it probably shouldn't be. As said above, TNG really earned its price, but no one cared. It is what it is.

I'm ten million times more a movie guy than a TV guy, so this effects me very little. Throw me a complete series set for $50 of something I have nostalgia for like Quantum Leap and I'll buy it, but 9 times out of 10 I'm too busy buying movies to care. For TV lovers though, they're really getting screwed by all this, as more and more shows skip Blu-ray (or UHD now). "Where is The Americans on Blu?!?!?!" they shout, and "I don't buy TV seasons for more than $10-20" is the answer.

That’s a great argument that I never even thought of. Thanks for this!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Taikero

It cost around $12,460,000 to remaster, according to the best estimate I have (~$70k per episode at 178 episodes).

The cost of that remaster (assuming the cost per episode is actually accurate and not inflated) is a one-time cost that can be recouped over many years via home media sales, licensing to streaming services, digital copy purchases, and such. The benefits of that one-time cost will be reaped for decades to come.

Except when you're employing a team to do the scanning, editing, new VFX, sound mixes, etc you need that money now. Not the mythical "later" or "eventually".

CBS also knows they won't recoup the cost on DS9 which did not have the same success as TNG with audiences.

[Vandal Savage]

I don’t think Paramount was ever going to upgrade DS9 to HD regardless of how many TNG sets sold.

I think the primary motivation for HDing TNG was to future proof it, and they released it on blu-ray to immediately recoup some of the cost.

DS9 and VOY were never the draws that TNG was, and, despite what we may have heard, revisiting DS9 was probably never in the cards. They just wanted to sell as many TNG blu-rays as possible. Now maybe if TNG had sold a ridiculous amount of blu-rays — say each season recouped its remastering costs by multiples — they might have considered DS9 (and VOY) but I don’t think it was ever a realistic option.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Vandal Savage

I don’t think Paramount was ever going to upgrade DS9 to HD regardless of how many TNG sets sold.

I don't think people like the Okudas were lying. They said CBS was willing to keep on the team if the sets had sold well.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Taikero

That's exactly why HBO is releasing Game of Thrones in 4K. It may not pay off fully right now, today, but over time it's absolutely worth the effort considering how much money over the coming decades they're going to continue reaping out of Game of Thrones as new consumers come of age and buy it, and long-time fans re-buy again and again.

For Game of Thrones (in its entirety) in 4K, it's not "If," but "When."

There's no doubt it's coming, I agree. It's been their top show for a while now, a prequel is coming in a year or two, and three other concept series are still on the back burner with no word whether they'll go into production. To your point...over time it will absolutely be worth the effort.

HBO is going to milk it as much as they can, for as long as they can. In fact, I'd venture to say that with the spinoff(s) launching...we'll see multiple "special edition" packaging versions of a complete original Game of Thrones 4K UHD set in the coming years.

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by Vandal Savage

I don’t think Paramount was ever going to upgrade DS9 to HD regardless of how many TNG sets sold.

DS9 is vastly overrated.

Star Trek is all about exploration and adventure.

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by Esox50

HBO is going to milk it as much as they can, for as long as they can. In fact, I'd venture to say that with the spinoff(s) launching...we'll see multiple "special edition" packaging versions of a complete original Game of Thrones 4K UHD set in the coming years.

Yep exactly.

It's the same when people worry about the current Star Wars releases, or Harry Potter, or MCU. There will be no shortage of these releases during the next couple of decades. For instance, I didn't buy these crappy 4K Avengers steelbooks because I know they are going to make legitimately nicer Avengers steelbooks at some point.

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by Nothing371

DS9 is vastly overrated.

Star Trek is all about exploration and adventure.

Well, the DS9 had the Defiant which was a badass ship and Sisko was a badass captain. And no, ST wasn't "all about" exploration and adventure. Hell, almost none of the movies were about that at all.

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[TravisPNW]

Originally Posted by Taikero

That's exactly why HBO is releasing Game of Thrones in 4K. It may not pay off fully right now, today, but over time it's absolutely worth the effort considering how much money over the coming decades they're going to continue reaping out of Game of Thrones as new consumers come of age and buy it, and long-time fans re-buy again and again.

For Game of Thrones (in its entirety) in 4K, it's not "If," but "When."

It really depends on the pricing for me. I'm a new GoT viewer and got all 7 seasons on BF for $72. The blu rays are just beautiful. Easily at the top of non-UHD content I've viewed on my OLED. The Atmos just makes it better.

Would I pay $500 to upgrade the series to 4K?

Probably not... and it's not because I don't like the show. I'm into season 4 now on the way to the season 8 premiere next month. They really made the blu rays too good IMO. Most reviews I've seen have said the same thing.

I'm sure the added HDR will be lovely... but again... it's about the pricing for me.

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by TravisPNW

It really depends on the pricing for me. I'm a new GoT viewer and got all 7 seasons on BF for $72. The blu rays are just beautiful. Easily at the top of non-UHD content I've viewed on my OLED. The Atmos just makes it better.

Would I pay $500 to upgrade the series to 4K?

Probably not... and it's not because I don't like the show. I'm into season 4 now on the way to the season 8 premiere next month. They really made the blu rays too good IMO. Most reviews I've seen have said the same thing.

I'm sure the added HDR will be lovely... but again... it's about the pricing for me.

I stopped buying piecemeal seasons as soon as on demand hit. I knew there would be some massive box set (ala LOST) when the series ended so I have been planning for that. I imagine some box set with the Iron Throne housing the discs. I have seen the blus and they are great and I would understand why someone would not want to spend the money to upgrade.

For myself, I am stopping buying any 4K I already have the BD of if it comes from a 2K DI. Just one way I'm trying to cut down a little bit.

[Taikero]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Not saying your opinion is "wrong" at all, but I think the issue you're having is expecting them to just be out to make some kind of profit. That making some money means they have to do a thing. That's not really how it works, they want to see a sizeable return on investment. The TNG remaster needed to make them a nice big profit off what they put into it, not squeak into profitability. Same for a Blu-ray release of The Americans or whatever.

There are exceptions of course. Labels get by on thinner profit margins, which is why a ton of catalog stuff is farmed out to them now. Warner and Sony are doing MOD releases now which survive with fewer dollars in for fewer dollars out. For the most part though studios do a thing to make a lot more than that thing cost. Same applies to the movies themselves, most squeak into profit at the end of the day, but they don't get sequels unless they made a sizeable return on investment.

You're right that studios have to pick and choose which projects to give attention to. I think that's why Star Trek TOS and Star Trek TNG got remastered. They're guaranteed money makers (whether short or long term) and remastering them will keep fans rolling in for decades.

Beyond that, I also think that if DS9/Voyager don't get more of a following than they have now, it's going to be a long wait for a remaster (if ever).

I guess my thought process here boils down to: It's not the consumer's responsibility to ensure that the product has the best quality. It's on the content creator to ensure that a proper master is available.

It's not the consumer's fault if your archive process sucks, or your digital intermediates are crap. Fix it.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Except when you're employing a team to do the scanning, editing, new VFX, sound mixes, etc you need that money now. Not the mythical "later" or "eventually".

CBS also knows they won't recoup the cost on DS9 which did not have the same success as TNG with audiences.

I think that a lot of what's wrong with how corporations treat their products is due to their quarterly accountability to shareholders. I think more and better risks would be taken, risks that could pay off long term, if fewer corporations just bent over backward to ensure their shareholders got quarterly dividends all the time.

The only corporation I know of that has been able to keep shareholders' expectations reasonable, and is able to play the long game (which is paying off after more than a decade of hard work) is Amazon. Now, that company has other issues I won't get into here, but their long game has been a lot better than, say, companies belonging to the MPAA/RIAA.

Originally Posted by Vandal Savage

I don’t think Paramount was ever going to upgrade DS9 to HD regardless of how many TNG sets sold.

I think the primary motivation for HDing TNG was to future proof it, and they released it on blu-ray to immediately recoup some of the cost.

DS9 and VOY were never the draws that TNG was, and, despite what we may have heard, revisiting DS9 was probably never in the cards. They just wanted to sell as many TNG blu-rays as possible. Now maybe if TNG had sold a ridiculous amount of blu-rays — say each season recouped its remastering costs by multiples — they might have considered DS9 (and VOY) but I don’t think it was ever a realistic option.

I think you're about right. I think the door was left slightly open for DS9/Voyager, but in general I wager the initial plan was always to remaster TOS+TNG, and then to wait and see.