Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Why would Daisy Ridley resent JJ Abrams? She wouldn't have a career without him.

Because what quite probably will be the biggest role of her career is so widely and rightfully mocked.

And last time I checked she had a career before Force Awakens having among other things starred in three of Britain's most popular TV shows. Not as if she came out of nowhere.

[bobbyh64]

“The Last Jedi” is a cool title...that is, cool if it meant that Luke was actually the last Jedi and no others would come after him, paving the way for a new kind of Force users that are called something different. But since Luke said he won’t be the last Jedi, what the title really is is just a temporary description of Luke. He is currently the last Jedi, but not for long. So the title is merely a description of Luke during the events of the film, not some meaningful label with a lot of weight to it.

[chewbabka]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

“The Last Jedi” is a cool title...that is, cool if it meant that Luke was actually the last Jedi and no others would come after him, paving the way for a new kind of Force users that are called something different. But since Luke said he won’t be the last Jedi, what the title really is is just a description of Luke in the movie. He is currently the last Jedi, but not for long. So the title is merely a description of Luke during the events of the film, not some meaningful label with a lot of weight to it.

Give me an example of a meaningful Star Wars title that has a lot of weight to it. They're all pretty descriptive.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

Because what quite probably will be the biggest role of her career is so widely and rightfully mocked.

Yeah, I'm sure that's keeping her up nights.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by chewbabka

Give me an example of a meaningful Star Wars title that has a lot of weight to it. They're all pretty descriptive.

All the others are meaningful descriptions. New hope, return, revenge, phantom menace. Or simple sentences like the empire strikes back, the force awakens. There’s nothing in the previous films that diminishes the meaning of the titles. The meaning of The Last Jedi isn’t that powerful when you consider that it really means “currently the last Jedi, but not for long.”

Luke being the last Jedi doesn’t really mean anything. I mean, we already knew he was the last Jedi in Return of the Jedi. So really the movie could’ve been called many other things since all it is is a description of Luke’s current state. It could’ve been called “Luke Skywalker” or “Hermit Luke.” The world “Last” in the title doesn’t mean anything significant when we know there will be other Jedi.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

JJ made her a Mary Sue

No. She is not.

[spanky87]

That whole “there was 3 YEARS in between ANH and TESB!” tidbit has only started getting trotted out to criticize Rey.

That is not established in the films and is something you’d only know by looking at external sources. When you watched the films as kids did you feel uncertain when Luke starting using telekinesis and going at it physically with an AT-AT until you read somewhere that 3 years had passed? I’m gonna assume no.

Hell, Luke was able to do all that and blow up the Death Star (while becoming the greatest X-Wing pilot in the galaxy his first time in one) with no formal training. His training up to that point was simply being told to “let the force flow through you”. And the time between ANH and TESB is meaningless to bring up anyway since Luke had no one to guide or train him in the force during that time. When Obi Wan’s force ghost appears to him in TESB it’s the first time they’ve interacted since ANH.

But anyway, that rant was so on point and you guys have only proven it by being obsessed over training and power level ups. And everything he said comes from what he learned from Dave Filoni, who learned everything he knows from George Lucas. But apparently he doesn’t understand what he’s talking about? I’m sure George Lucas and Dave Filoni understand the force and mythology more than anyone here.

[ben6543]

Originally Posted by buck135

Who is Freddie Prinze?

he was the voice of Kanan Jarus in Star Wars Rebels

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by spanky87

But anyway, that rant was so on point and you guys have only proven it by being obsessed over training and power level ups. And everything he said comes from what he learned from Dave Filoni, who learned everything he knows from George Lucas. But apparently he doesn’t understand what he’s talking about? I’m sure George Lucas and Dave Filoni understand the force and mythology more than anyone here.

How ironic. These "hardcore fans" think they know more about the franchise than professional writers and filmmakers, when it's obvious they DON'T in some ways.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by ben6543

he was the voice of Kanan Jarus in Star Wars Rebels

And he’s married to Buffy the Vampire Slayer. You gotta respect that!

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

Rey is and forever will be cinemas most famous Mary Sue, in fact the character that introduced a semi-obscure fan fiction reference to the mainstream. Well done JJ, Daisy's not going to resent you for that in the future.

*groan* I still can’t believe people are still saying this un-ironically.

If the Rey character was a guy, you’d all be like “oh man he’s so awesome!” but heaven forbid it be a woman.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by VulcanSoulPatch

Just had to come out of the woodwork to comment on this:



I, for one, sure did not feel "shut down" by this. He really only showed how little he truly understands about the OT. But I will defer to a commenter from the nerdist article who sums it up perfectly:





/lurk

So you "came out of the woodwork" to respond to that by posting someone else's opinion?

I, for one, don't think you shut down what he said or displayed that you have a better understanding of the force and Star Wars than him.

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

Because a powerful "Jedi" like Kylo, who as we later found out even Luke was scared of, would be beaten by a girl who hadn't even heard of the Force 48 hours previous? Nah, even in an injured state that's stretching credibility somewhat. As for Finn, who cares about him? He's an impulsive idiot (certainly in Last Jedi)

Except she already knew about the force and the Jedi unlike Luke in A New Hope, and even knew about the legend of Luke Skywalker. She just didn't think they were real until it was confirmed by Finn and later Han. And then even later, Maz Kanata imparted the same knowledge about the force and letting it flow through you as Obi-Wan did with Luke in ANH. Not to mention that TFA depicts her as being a tougher character than Luke, and someone who can already handle herself with a combat weapon.

And Luke was scared of her raw power in TLJ just like he was with Kylo's, so there's some consistency with that. It's almost like these films are showing us that Rey and Kylo have a mysterious connection through the force and it could be leading somewhere in the next one.

[mikeyfridebuzz]

Originally Posted by jayman3

Freddie Prinze Jr goes on an epic Star Wars rant and shuts down all the fans.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B3aUrNo..._web_copy_link

Epic Fail = Freddy Prinze who thinks he is the definitive voice on Star Wars because he worked with Filoni who worked for Lucas, who is actually the real definitive voice of Star Wars, who sold it to Disney who then threw out George Lucas vision for the ST.

[VulcanSoulPatch]

Originally Posted by spanky87

So you "came out of the woodwork" to respond to that by posting someone else's opinion?

I, for one, don't think you shut down what he said or displayed that you have a better understanding of the force and Star Wars than him.

Touchy, much? And since when has deferring to someone else's comment not indicated that one shares the same opinion?

And read fail on the "shut down" comment. I never said that I was shutting down what he said, I was simply responding to jayman3's statement that Prinze's comments shut down all fans. Nor was I trying to display a better understanding of the Force or Star Wars in general, simply that of his depiction of Luke and his journey in the OT.

Interesting how all the detractors of the posted comment limited their dissent to the "3 years" portion, yet did not attempt to debunk the amount of training that Luke went through in ESB nor that he had no "great understanding" of other languages. Why's that? Because it would be futile.

At the end of the day, the accurate, original description of Prinze's diatribe was on point: it was a rant. That's it. Bombastic and empassioned, but definitely no precision lightsabering about it. Maybe if he had been more concerned with dropping facts than F-bombs his statement would have been more credible.

It is really sad how this thread has devolved into personal attacks due to the differing of opinions. It's no wonder why many of us who were part of this thread when it originated have either stopped following it or choose to remain silent.

But it's not like my statement is going to stop any of you, so... carry on.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by VulcanSoulPatch

Interesting how all the detractors of the posted comment limited their dissent to the "3 years" portion, yet did not attempt to debunk the amount of training that Luke went through in ESB nor that he had no "great understanding" of other languages. Why's that? Because it would be futile.

I assume you're talking about the Crispiann quote you posted a few pages back.

Luke had the intuition to make a really tough shot at the end of ANH. About 3 years later, in ESB, Luke is able, with much effort, to use the force to pull a lightsaber to himself. Then, after an unspecified period of time at Yoda's he finally learns how to use a lightsaber and advances his levitation ability to some rocks. And then maybe a year later in ROTJ, he considers himself a full-fledged Jedi, able to levitate C-3PO with focused concentration and hold his own in a lightsaber battle. He showed no great understanding of what Chewie or R2 said (needing Han and 3PO or the X-Wing monitor to translate).

I don't know who this Crispiann person is but they seem be falling into the exact 'level up' trap that spanky87 spoke of and in the process they're completely ignoring a lesson Yoda tried (and failed) to teach Luke.

It took much effort to pull a light saber and after an unspecified period of training he was able to 'advance' to being able to lift a few rocks and after another year he's able to lift 3PO?

The idea that these various feats required some sort of earned skill progression completely flies in the face of what Yoda *tried* to teach Luke with the X-wing.

A light saber, a few rocks, a bunch of rocks, an X-wing...they're all the same to the force.

Luke thought they were different but Yoda was very adamant that they were not. Remember, he slammed his cane on the ground and told Luke that the rocks and the X-wing were only different in his mind? That size mattered not? That he had to unlearn what he had learned?

If Luke had more faith in himself or the force or what have you he could have floated that X-wing back to shore himself but he failed. Not because it was too hard but because he thought it was too hard.

It's totally understandable that people think greater and greater force ability was something that had to be unlocked or earned through 'level ups' but Lucas told us forty years ago that this isn't necessarily the case.

He told us this when he had Luke deflecting laser blasts with his laser sword with his eyes closed after a five minute pep talk from Ben. He told us again when Luke was able to hit the exhaust port with his targeting computer off because he, you know, talked to an old guy and then that old guy's ghost told him to 'trust his feelings'. And he told us yet again when Yoda did a face palm when Luke couldn't lift a piddly old X-wing out of a swamp.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

No. She is not.

Dude, she's the very definition of Mary Sue. Rey will be the character most people think of when they hear the phrase.

Originally Posted by rexcrk

*groan* I still can’t believe people are still saying this un-ironically.

If the Rey character was a guy, you’d all be like “oh man he’s so awesome!” but heaven forbid it be a woman.

It they were male I'd still think them an over capable bore of a character. Their gender has no baring on the subject.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

Dude, she's the very definition of Mary Sue. Rey will be the character most people think of when they hear the phrase.

Don't laugh. It's not funny.

I can easily prove why she isn't a Mary Sue. Try me. Come at me.

[Hardback247]

Everyone who still thinks Rey is a Mary Sue should watch this video:

In Defense of Rey: The Mary Sue Argument | Star Wars: The Force Awakens / The Last Jedi Analysis - YouTube

[bobbyh64]

Didn’t see that coming...

[veritas]

Originally Posted by rexcrk

*groan* I still can’t believe people are still saying this un-ironically.

If the Rey character was a guy, you’d all be like “oh man he’s so awesome!” but heaven forbid it be a woman.

I think everybody would call him a Gary Stu. I don't think Rey deserved the title in the force awakens (JJ left the story open so we could get an explanation for why Rey was advancing so fast) but she sure deserves it by the last jedi.

Its really Rian Johnsons fault he wanted to be subversive and he set the last Jedi chronologically just after the force awakens. With a time skip she could have improved off screen with little explanation. If he wasn't subversive then luke could have taught her instead of her being a lesson for him. RJ basically made rey the padawan that teaches the master and the student who can do everything with little to no instruction. It seemed like he wanted to subvert expectations with how Reys training would go but the way he did it was poorly written basically Rey just gains a lot of skills and luke makes the mistakes instead of Rey.