Star Trek 1 - 10 'Enterprise' Box Set!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

Not sure how hands-on Netflix are, but they seem to be pretty open to ideas, Fincher is obviously a draw for us lot, Netflix may have been a draw to him as well, but he's generally worth every penny.

I don't really mind a few seasons of a show as long as it's complete, Mindhunter wasn't renewed (not sure how that ends?), other things like Santa Clarita Diet was axed on a cliffhanger-ish ending.

But with Netflix analytics, there's always a chance of something getting another season a few years down the line. My main gripe is that they're a bit short on family entertainment and studios use them as a dumping ground for their garbage (but I guess new content is new content).

That's the point really. Gotta keep it rolling. And even if stuff isn't costing bajillions of dollars from the start, the sheer amount of gear that Netflix keeps commissioning means that costs soon pile up anyway. Netflix's debt at the last count was almost $15 billion, though that's chump change compared to Disnee or Comcast or AT&T, the latter's debt is ten times as high as Netflix's after buying Warners.

[Moe UK]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

I think the underlying problem is that for 99.99% of folks, SD is "good enough".

This is like the saddest truth of all, either good enough or can’t tell the difference.

With 4K TVs coming down to the sub £500 I can’t imagine it’s too long before 4K is the only type of tv you can buy and maybe then those SD diehards will at least be able to tell the difference. SD on 4K looks

[CouncilSpectre]

Re studios going for external funding for restoration efforts - the link below is a pretty heart-breaking and damning indictment of MGM and efforts to restore the longer cut of The Alamo.

https://thedigitalbits.com/columns/m...ts/052814_1330

MGM would literally rather let the elements die than allow someone else to try and restore them.

Sadly, this is likely to be the popular studio stance, they won't let "outsiders" try for fear of embarrassing them if they succeed.

[Geoff D]

Remember 'The Alamo'.

[malcy30]

It probably depends upon the studio, age and popularity of the film.

IIRC many recent WAC BD releases use new 2K and 4K where the restoration has been funded by the likes of UCLA! MPAA, Lucas foundation and Scorsese foundation.

It may be in those cases Warner no longer hold the film elements they are in other archives, but Warner are commercially releasing in disc, however there wouldn’t be a BD without someone else paying for the restoration.

Is very different to Star Trek where CBS Paramount could afford to fund it’s just they have decided not to do so as they can make a higher return on the money they have by spending it on other stuff mainly making new content which is more profitable. Star Trek makes them money as they have the existing masters they can continually recycle so any money on top is “gravy”. Also sales of the merchandise, dolls and ship models etc. isn’t dependant upon whether the shows are in SD or HD.

[Geoff D]

Even so, having a 'foundation' intervene isn't the same kind of optics for a studio than crowdfunding a restoration.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Even so, having a 'foundation' intervene isn't the same kind of optics for a studio than crowdfunding a restoration.

You can imagine how quickly one studio head would pat another on the shoulder at the fanciest LA restaurant, "Good luck with the Deep Space Nine Kickstarter ... I pledged $100 bucks ..." for the whole thing to de-materialise.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by chip75

The problem is Star Trek is owned by a huge corporation. They generally don't crowfund. It wouldn't look good to investors or stockholders.

I think they've sussed by now CBS aren't willing to invest money. I'm sure they're reputation is safe.

Originally Posted by chip75

But you can imagine someone saying "Master Deep Space Nine in HD? Why? It's on DVD and Netflix ... it's not going anywhere."

Why transfer movies to digital? Why not stay with VHS? If you want to secure an audience for something there needs to be an incentive to get people interested in watching. In the long run SD versions of DS9 and Voyager ain't going to cut it.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Earlier seasons of Quantum Leap were finished entirely on film, they used video for the VFX in the later seasons but they just dropped that stuff into the film transfer (complete with combing artefacts IIRC) instead of re-doing it. So again, not a massive expense.

Are you sure about this? Probably getting slightly confused. The later seasons visuals look like they were edited onto the episodes. What would the difference be between doing the effects on film and doing the effects on video? I imagine some elements would need to be found to be upscaled?

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

10 years ago you could probably have counted on one hand the number of people who thought shows like TNG could be completely re-done in HD.

Agreed. Not so much if but when. The first four seasons of DS9 have the same type of work needed to be done for them as TNG. It's Season 5 onwards where it gets tricky.

Same issue with Seasons 1-4 of Voyager. Numerous CG effects but when you get to Season 5 it's pretty much a new shot of CG Voyager every episode along with other effects. They really increased the effects work from Season 5 onwards which is why the effects look so bad. They couldn't maintain the quality of previous seasons as there was more to do.

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

B5, the VFX and composite shots aside, actually looks pretty good. It's just that the VFX and composites are extensive and they look absolutely terrible by comparison. There's an almost 50% drop in resolution compared to live-action (see the spoilered quote below).

Maybe we can donate WB some Amigas to get the ball rolling.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It was done for the DS9 documentary, which is where people are getting a bit over-excited re: crowdfunding, but that was an indie production and had nothing to do with Paramount or CBS at the corporate level.

The fact CBS gave the go ahead is incredible. They knew what they signed off on. You can be a naysayer or you can see the potential for crowd funding. Personally I think the former is counterproductive.

Originally Posted by LMFAObros

I think we may have a slim chance that CBS will see the worth in remastering the series in 16x9 to use in syndication, for Netflix and CBS All Access and a BD release as the show in widescreen will please the normies and studio execs who despise black bars on their screens.

People in these comments are forgetting SD won't sell forever. If CBS want to keep selling Star Trek they will do whatever they're desperate to do to make that money, even if it's putting the remastered show on their All Access or whatever they call it now.

The constant "boo CBS will never remaster DS9 and Voyager" is the kind of thinking that would keep us in the VHS era of viewing stuff.

[Geoff D]

I've not said there's no "potential" for it, you're missing the point. The point is that CBS will never ever crowdfund a restoration for part of one of their biggest franchises, no studio would. The fact that the showrunner of DS9 felt compelled to actually crowdfund the documentary in the first place proves that Paramount don't much care, otherwise they'd have paid for the documentary themselves, no? Instead they threw a few scraps to ISB when he came knocking at the door.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've not said there's no "potential" for it, you're missing the point. The point is that CBS will never ever crowdfund a restoration for part of one of their biggest franchises, no studio would. The fact that the showrunner of DS9 felt compelled to actually crowdfund the documentary in the first place proves that Paramount don't much care, otherwise they'd have paid for the documentary themselves, no? Instead they threw a few scraps to ISB when he came knocking at the door.

They allowed him use of the footage direct from their archives and for CBS to do that it's an important step.

[Moe UK]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've not said there's no "potential" for it, you're missing the point. The point is that CBS will never ever crowdfund a restoration for part of one of their biggest franchises, no studio would. The fact that the showrunner of DS9 felt compelled to actually crowdfund the documentary in the first place proves that Paramount don't much care, otherwise they'd have paid for the documentary themselves, no? Instead they threw a few scraps to ISB when he came knocking at the door.

At Star Trek Destination 2018, where they did a showing of the documentary, Ira said that we were looking at the only people (those on stage) that cared about DS9 at the studio.

But just to touch on the crowd funding thing, in a manor of speaking don’t studios already do this they go to rich investors to get money to pour into new productions? Asking fans to fund a money seems like the next logical step, especially if you don’t have to deal with someone who is getting nervous about the 100m they just invested in a film that is having production trouble.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Moe UK

But just to touch on the crowd funding thing, in a manor of speaking don’t studios already do this they go to rich investors to get money to pour into new productions? Asking fans to fund a money seems like the next logical step, especially if you don’t have to deal with someone who is getting nervous about the 100m they just invested in a film that is having production trouble.

They do, but their precedent is The Next Generation which had it's marketing kneecapped and didn't sell very well.

They've been trying to get people to invest in a new Star Trek movie, but they're not having it (I think China bailed as well), they can't sign-up the leads and the last feature bombed (and the merchandise for nuTrek is a disaster).

Yes, we could probably fund a restoration for Deep Space Nine quite easily, I don't think that would be a problem, but then we'd have to fund a BD release on top of that.

The only way I see these getting done is someone thinking it's the right thing to do and they know they'd lose money, but that doesn't mean we'd see BDs at the end of it. That would be another department.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Moe UK

At Star Trek Destination 2018, where they did a showing of the documentary, Ira said that we were looking at the only people (those on stage) that cared about DS9 at the studio.

But just to touch on the crowd funding thing, in a manor of speaking don’t studios already do this they go to rich investors to get money to pour into new productions? Asking fans to fund a money seems like the next logical step, especially if you don’t have to deal with someone who is getting nervous about the 100m they just invested in a film that is having production trouble.

Again: it's the optics of it. Movie studios are built on debt, they're built on loans and investments from hedge funds and the mega-rich, but it's always been contained within that world. A studio that's basically putting out the begging bowl - that's what crowdfunding is, no need to sugar coat it - to restore part of its greatest franchise is sending out a very clear message to all those investors that they're so hard up they can't even afford a loan any more. That's not a good look. As such, studios would rather sit on this material and/or intellectual property and do nothing with it rather than be made to look like two-bit amateurs. This is nothing new.

As chip said, DS9 and VOY need an exec brave enough to drop $40M on remastering them who's not afraid of there not being a return on that investment for quite some time. But if there's one thing studio execs don't usually have it's foresight. This is also nothing new.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Moe UK

But just to touch on the crowd funding thing, in a manor of speaking don’t studios already do this they go to rich investors to get money to pour into new productions? Asking fans to fund a money seems like the next logical step, especially if you don’t have to deal with someone who is getting nervous about the 100m they just invested in a film that is having production trouble.

Yep, that's kind of what I'm trying to say. If the fans are willing to pay why would it be that much of an issue?

[malcy30]

The reason Paramount use external investors, mostly in China is because they are skint and don't have the money of Disney or Warner. I think the external investors have seen that Star Trek isn't the money spinning franchise is once was. Especially when comparing budgets and actor costs vs what they can make at the box office and from later home viewing and TV.

You don't see anyone rushing to bankroll new Star Trek films whilst for the Star Trek TV shows CBS are now having to fund more of the cost as Netflix cut back their investment after poor audiences.

Whether you call it pre-sales or crowdfunding, the only way this could happen today in the current environment is for CBS to get the money upfront and then make you wait a year or longer for the restoration. However, CBS don't have a direct sales arm where they could charge you something like £300 for the boxset upfront with money non refundable so the had the money in the bank to cover the costs. Viability would then depend upon how many they sold. So really crowdfunding but not called that as would be upfront sales on their own website.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by malcy30

So really crowdfunding but not called that as would be upfront sales on their own website.

Are you saying they'd have to call it something else?

[malcy30]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Are you saying they'd have to call it something else?

We have been through the debate of CBS look like losers if they have to crowdfund rather than pay for the restoration themselves.

My comment was more of a joke saying you can use a model like crowdfunding where you pay the money upfront for the BDs, it’s not refundable and you have to wait some time, can be many years to get the product.

So rather than calling it crowdfunded on one of the platforms like Kickstarter or Indiegogo, CBS can set up a ST DS9 website, sell copies for the complete boxset at somewhere priced at $300+ with a delivery date in 2 years, but say you only have 3 months to order. Then assuming they sell enough to cover the restoration costs, fine go ahead, if not cancel and refund.

Same business model as crowdfunding just not called that as it’s a pre-order from CBS.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by malcy30

Same business model as crowdfunding just not called that as it’s a pre-order from CBS.

It might cause some confusion for those not used to that method of crowdfunding.

[Geoff D]

I'd put my money down for it though! £300 charged up front, take my money nooooooooowwwwwww