Warner Archive Collection Blu-ray Discussion Thread

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

Michael Shannon might come close. Not in size, but in presence.

Yeah, he's pretty good.

What about Tom Sizemore? (or at least what's left of him)

[moviflicilm]

Originally Posted by EVOLVIST

The days of Jack Klugman, Karl Malden, and Gene Hackman are over. Hell, Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau would be sharing their digs for real in 2022. These dudes probably couldn't land a Seth Rogen role today.

Call me an elitist or what-have-you; I don't care. I have a very difficult time watching most modern films with their too-cute Hollywood Handsome air, as if the cast just walked out of a salon on Rodeo Dr.

At least back in the day you'd have a leading man and leading lady, but the supporting cast were not always dandied-up to beat the band. It's simply a totally different aesthetic. And I would love to watch some of these new movies, but 9 times out of 10 the cast pulls me right out of the illusion.

Jack Lemmon could probably make it but there's no way in a million light years Hollywood would ever allow a modern Walter Matthau come close to being a above the title movie star. Shocking he became as big of a star with one of the most homely faces to ever become a genuine box office draw. Just look at the disparate between his role in the original Taking of Pelham 123 and Denzel Washington in the remake. No offense to Denzel but it shows how glamorize everything Hollywood has become in the last 30 years. We would never get all these interesting faces that popped up the screen like a Martin Balsam in supporting roles. Just about all of the cast in movie look like just people they pick up on the street and shoot it with an actual budget behind the production. Make me think about over the weekend on reflecting the passing of Fred Ward and how that kind of working man character actor is going out of sync with the roles today.

[bonehica]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

Who would be the equivalent of Edward Robinson today as a leading man?

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by bonehica

[Show spoiler]

You, ah, you see Philip Seymour Hoffmann starring in a lot of movies these days, do you?

[bonehica]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

You, ah, you see Philip Seymour Hoffmann starring in a lot of movies these days, do you?

Not since he passed, but he still casts a very long shadow. I know my answer was stretching it a bit, but I was thinking in terms of the past 20 years or so. And, when I came to think of a modern version of Edward G Robinson...well, he was the only name that came to mind.

[g northcott]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

Who would be the equivalent of Edward Robinson today as a leading man?

Toby jones, more of a character actor but has had quit a few leading riles

[Aclea]

Adam Driver doesn't seem short of work either. Ditto Ron Perlman.

[moviflicilm]

Originally Posted by Aclea

Adam Driver doesn't seem short of work either. Ditto Ron Perlman.

Different screen personas. Driver certainly has the somewhat uncommon physical features but I think he owns more to the unconventional guys from the 70s more than Edward G. Robinson. Think of that era Donald Sutherland for a straight actor comparison to Driver.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by moviflicilm

Different screen personas. Driver certainly has the somewhat uncommon physical features but I think he owns more to the unconventional guys from the 70s more than Edward G. Robinson. Think of that era Donald Sutherland for a straight actor comparison to Driver.

Yet a million miles away from the 'glamorous' male leading men you're complaining about. And Hollywood has always had them in every era. Even Robinson worked at the same studio as Errol Flynn, William Powell and Richard Barthelmess while in Walter Matthau's most successful years the box-office charts were topped by the likes of Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Ryan O'Neal, Warren Beatty and Burt Reynolds.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by g northcott

Toby jones, more of a character actor but has had quit a few leading riles

I can't think of a name more fitting a person's appearance than Toby Jones, he looks like a little toby.

[Pecker]

Try watching Tyrannosaur and not thinking of Eddie Marsan in this category.

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by Aclea

Yet a million miles away from the 'glamorous' male leading men you're complaining about. And Hollywood has always had them in every era. Even Robinson worked at the same studio as Errol Flynn, William Powell and Richard Barthelmess while in Walter Matthau's most successful years the box-office charts were topped by the likes of Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Ryan O'Neal, Warren Beatty and Burt Reynolds.

At least for me, I don't think the conversion is about handsome leading men, because yes, you're right, Hollywood has had that aesthetic from close to its inception. The beautiful leading man role really took off after WWI. Cinema needed more champions.

The "problem" today is a.) for some reason many, but not all, of the Hollywood Handsome actors can't act and b.) there are few roles for the average Joe who can act, and c.) everyone is beautiful in the ensemble cast, unless they pick one or two people for comedic relief.

The above mentioned High Society (1956) is a perfect example of an ensemble cast that wouldn't fly today. Everyone is in their 40s-50s, with Grace Kelly creeping up on 30.

Key Largo (1948) - Bogey was almost 50, Eddie was in his 50s, with Bacall being the infant at 24. At least it's not like Funny Face (1956) where the love interest between Astaire and Hepburn is almost creepy. Almost. I can't help but to laugh.

Who's going to pair young actresses with geezers today? I haven't seen one.

[randian]

Originally Posted by EVOLVIST

Who's going to pair young actresses with geezers today? I haven't seen one.

I assume you meant "ensemble" not "enable".

Actresses are almost always younger, often significantly younger, than actors they're paired with. I see 20-something women paired with 40-something actors all the time. It gets really absurd when the couple have young adult children. The man is age-appropriate but the woman is in reality maybe 5-10 years older than their child. You don't see 20-somethings paired with 60+ guys anymore, but you frequently see older guys paired with women who are 20 years younger than them.

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by randian

I assume you meant "ensemble" not "enable".

That would be "presume," based on the evidence.

Yes, typing from my phone.

[filmgenius89]

Originally Posted by BluPat

I'm surprised that The Jazz Singer (1927) with Al Jolson is still readily available considering it having several "black face" segments. I still have the digibook Blu-ray that came out.

I think some films with such historical significance tend to transcend political correctness, especially when it's bookended with historical contextualization.

No one is denying the issues surrounding the film, but it can't be pulled without being noticed either...

[captainsolo]

I revisited a classic and it shot to the top of my WAC list for how badly it needs a new transfer, restoration or heck an actual DVD release!


I re-watched JOURNEY INTO FEAR for Joseph Cotten’s birthday (he co-wrote the screenplay with Orson Welles) and since I just went through Citizen Kane and Ambersons on the Criterion releases. The only US releases are the old and rare LD and VHS issues. The LD would be very good if it weren't for issues from it being an Image B&W release. My LD is rotted on side 1 so I switched over to my newly acquired Japanese LD copy...which turned out to be the alternate European cut with a totally different edit, credit sequence and ending.

Trying to understand how the third Mercury film was so totally butchered is like the plot of an Eric Ambler novel. (which the film is based on) It originally ran 91min and was directed by Norman Foster. (Some have claimed Welles ghost directed it or certain sequences. It has some Wellsian influence for sure but Foster directed it.) RKO and the State Department had their hands in cutting it severely and the film was dumped out to formally end the Mercury contract.
Two versions exist with the European cut only recently resurfacing in the 2000's. The US cut is significantly shorter and has a narration voiceover applied. While the European cut has more footage it lacks scenes in the US cut and both cuts have different endings. Welles apparently had some involvement post-It's All True in the editing and shot the US cut tag ending but it is unknown exactly what he got to do. Neither cut works as it should and the film seems to have been hit with much of the same butchering that Ambersons faced. The European cut flows better and has more of the humor rumored to be in the original cut. To make a hybrid cut it would need the unique footage from the US cut

It is unbelievable that there isn’t even a DVD release for the only other Mercury production in the US. This film cries out for a deluxe edition with both cuts and a hybrid cut. It deserves the same release as Mr. Arkadin got from Criterion. There was a Spanish dvd of the European cut and a reconstruction of both cuts in Europe from video sources with no disc release. It would be held Warner here in the US because it is an RKO title. A French PAL DVD seems to use the LD master of the US cut.

[Rayjg]

I saw the reconstructed Journey Into Fear in NYC about seven years ago. The one scene that stood out to me as not appearing in the US cut was Welles’ Turkish general seducing Cotten’s(?) wife in her hotel room. This version also used a significant amount of still photographs with subtitles for scenes that are lost. These mostly dealt with the oddball characters on the ship.

[Hammerlover]

Criterion is rumored to have JOURNEY INTO FEAR, so hopefully it will get the BD release it deserves. THE STRANGER is another underrated Welles gem crying out for the "Criterion treatment" IMO.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by Hammerlover

Criterion is rumored to have JOURNEY INTO FEAR, so hopefully it will get the BD release it deserves. THE STRANGER is another underrated Welles gem crying out for the "Criterion treatment" IMO.

That hybrid cut was done by a museum in Germany and it was, I think, in standard definition. I can’t imagine Warner signing off on it. They would probably only allow Criterion to include both officially released versions. Another difference is the Euro cut is bookended by Cotten writing a letter to his wife as a framing device. I think the American cut drops most of that for Welles’ reshot ending of the chase on the side of the building in the rain. I can’t remember if the hybrid cut included both endings but it probably did.

[captainsolo]

I thought the reconstruction just mixed both cuts together. If they used stills to recreate scenes it sounds more like a full reconstruction of the shooting script which would be ideal. Most of the cut footage deals with all of the characters on board the ship and was full of political ideologies. That’s why as it is in both cuts Agnes Moorehead is reduced to virtually a cameo.

The cuts are mostly the same. The final chase is the same but the European cut ends it there with the funny quick ending. The US cut fades out a tiny bit early and into the newly shot scene of Welles and Cotten where he’s writing the letter that also finally explains where the voiceover is coming from. Of course without the scene of Welles’s character meeting the wife played by Ruth Warrick in the hotel room all of the themes of potential marital infidelity are gone and thus it doesn’t make sense why Cotten’s character is writing his wife an explanatory letter. I like both endings but to resolve all the characters properly you need the US cut ending they re-shot.
This is one of those films where the more closely you study it and the more things you try to read up the more confused you become. It doesn’t help that a lot of the biographies and a few people writing about the films production themselves wind up saying different things.

Poor The Stranger…undervalued and little discussed, many video releases with no clear winner. Three BDs so far none perfect and crap tons of public domain nightmares. Speaking of which I still need to get the Olive latest version.