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Old 12-12-2008, 03:32 PM   #101
Moefiz Moefiz is offline
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Here in PA its been steady at 1.69 to 1.65 for reg....
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:33 PM   #102
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Here in SD it's 1.64 for premium.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:37 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Man View Post
I'd love to get premium too, but at 15 MPG, it got too expensive during the $4/gallon days.
Fortunatley, my car means a lot to me, and I paid $4.25-ish + during the bad days for premium. I won't put anything but Shell in my car. If that's not available it's Texaco or BP.
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:31 PM   #104
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Premium is nearly 2.00 per gallon here which is much better than it was when I bought my car a few months ago.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:51 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
I need to read more into economics and oil to fully grasp the concept.

All I know is, it's $1.75 here, and I haven't paid that little since I first got my own vehicle as a senior in HS back in 03.
Gasoline is approaching, adjusted for inflation, an all-time lowest price. Gasoline in 1909 was about $3.20 a gallon (adjusted). The lowest ever was the last time gasoline was around the current price, and there has been inflation since then.

I don't know if anyone has crunched the numbers based on purchasing power i.e. a gallon of gasoline is kept at a constant percentage of take home pay. I expect it was historically cheap at $4.

Gary
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:47 PM   #106
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What's this crap with inflation? In 1909 - gas wasn't $3.20 a gallon. Was like a nickel or less. In 1920, it was .18 cents a gallon.

What's with everyone "adjusted for inflation".... blah blah blah stuff? Back then it was cheap.. now it's not.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:49 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkMore View Post
What's this crap with inflation? In 1909 - gas wasn't $3.20 a gallon. Was like a nickel or less. In 1920, it was .18 cents a gallon.

What's with everyone "adjusted for inflation".... blah blah blah stuff? Back then it was cheap.. now it's not.
No, Drink, what he's saying is that, it was the same percentage of income as it was now, more or less. Its a logical argument. Back then, gas at .18 cents a gallon might've been expensive to someone who was making $2-$3 a day.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:23 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteinhauer View Post
It's going to be uglier than many think. There is every reason to believe economic recovery in the US will be slower than the regrowth of the price of petroleum. Demand will keep increasing in China and India.(in Duluth, MN).



By The Numbers


Peak Oil Modelling
Calgary, Alberta CANADA, September 02, 2010 /FSC/ - Enquirica Research Inc. (NQR - 0),

Oil is a finite resource. The key issue surrounding peak production is not whether we will reach a point of maximum global production, but rather the timing of the peak and the rate of post peak decline. A recent survey paper from the UKERC found that:

* The global average decline rate of post-peak fields is at least 6.5%/year and the corresponding decline rate of all currently producing fields is at least 4%/year. This implies that approximately 3 mbpd of capacity must be added each year just to maintain production at current levels - equivalent to a new Saudi Arabia coming on-stream every 3 years. An additional 1 mbpd must be added to meet demand growth.
* More than two thirds of existing capacity must be replaced by 2030 solely to prevent production from falling.
* A peak in conventional oil production before 2030 appears likely and there is a significant risk of a peak before 2020. For example, a 2008 report by The UK Industry Taskforce on Peak Oil and Energy Security warned that a "peak in cheap, easily available oil production" was likely by 2013.

(Filing Services Canada)[/quote]

“In 2007 primary sources of energy consisted of petroleum 36.0%, coal 27.4%, natural gas 23.0%, amounting to an 86.4% share for fossil fuels in primary energy consumption in the world.” (EIA)
In 1980, production was 63.96 mbpd, 1990 - 66.21 mbpd, and 2008 - 85.48 mbpd. The world currently consumes between 29 - 31 Billion Barrels a year. "As per official reports published in 2005, the approximate oil reserves are - Saudi Arabia 24%, Canada 13%, Iraq and Iran 10%, each, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Russia 9 percent each, Venezuela 8 percent, Mexico, United States (excluding oil shale), Norway and Indonesia 5 percent each, Nigeria, Libya, China, Kazakhstan and Algeria 2 percent each." (Oil-Price.Net)

A decisive fact for our future is that over half of all the oil that was generated millions of years ago can be found in only a few hundred, giant oilfields. At the start when these fields were discovered, it seemed as though they would never end. During a 10-year period around 1960, 48 billion barrels of oil per year were found while annual global consumption was only eight billion barrels. Now the yearly consumption has risen to over 30 billion barrels but the finds per year have decreased. (Kjell Aleklett, University of Sydney, 3 November 2010)

Motorists, airlines and railroads are buring crude-bases fules at a rate of one supertanker every 33 minutes, a 2.2% increase from 2009...[Exxon Moble] increase production 21% to 4.45 mbpd...oil futures in MY averaged $76.20 a barrel in Q3...Worldwide demand for crude is averaging 86.6 mbpd this year and is expected to rise to 88.1 mbpd in 2011...the price of benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude will average $106 a barrel in 2012 and $137 in 2015, Barclays (Joe Carrol, Bloomberg, 20 October 2010)

The oil industry requires prices in excess of $60 per barral, otherwise new projects will turn out to be money-losers...for future projects - prices close to $80 - Mouawad. Oil above $80 can send the economy back into recession, reduce demand and lower prices - putting a hold on new projects. The new 'oil window': $60 - $80. Current price per barrel (Bloomberg)

In the fall of 2008...by the International Energy Agency(IEA).. the decline of the the worlds 400 largest oil fields...without massive investment...the annual depleation rate was 9% per year...more then triple the previous estimates... A Nation of Farmers, p 7. More than 60% of global oil fields are past peak and are now in permanent decline.

By 2012, surplus oil production capacity could entirely disappear, and as early as 2015, the shortfall in output could reach nearly 10 mbpd… The implications for future conflict are ominous...(USJFCOM, Joint Operating Environment)

The US military has warned that extra capacity could disappear within two years and there could be serious shortages by 2015 with a significant economic and political impact..."By 2012, surplus oil production capacity could entirely disappear, and as early as 2015, the shortfall in output could reach nearly 10 mbpd," says the report, which has a foreword by a senior commander, General James N Mattis. (Terry Macalister, guardian.co.uk, 11 April 2010)

Merrill Lynch: Analyst thinks global output could shrink by 30 mbpd by 2015. Could push prices higher by 2010 (Business Week, 23 Feb 2009)



Quote:
•We are now burning 10 times as much energy as a century ago to provide the goods and services we consume.
•Energy consumption is still increasing rapidly, with an approximate 550 exajoules [5.5 x 10^20 J/yr] (523 Quadrillion BTUs) consumed at the primary energy level in 2010.
•Of this total 80% was provided by fossil fuels, 11.3% by bio-energy mainly from wood combustion, 5.5% from nuclear, 2.2% from hydro, and 0.4% from other renewable energy sources.
•The historic time for each energy source to grow from 1 to 10 exajoules in primary energy production was 12 years for nuclear, 33 years for crude oil, 39 years for natural gas, 52 years for coal, and 59 years for hydro-power.

Rembrandt, TOD, 16 Feb 2012


OPEC Countries


The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries was created at the Baghdad Conference on September 10–14, 1960, by Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, its 5 founding members. Currently there are 12 members: Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Venezuela. OPEC is a swing producer, meaning it can increase or decrease commodity supply. There objective is to co-ordinate and unify petroleum policies in order to secure fair and stable prices for petroleum producers. OPEC was modeled after the American Texas Railroad Commission set up in 1891 to regulate the oil and gas industry. As of November 2010, OPEC members collectively hold 79% of world crude oil reserves and 44% of the world’s crude oil production, affording them considerable control over the global market". (wiki).


Qatar
It became independent in 1971, and is rulled by the Al Thani family; has the worlds highest per capita GDP which grew by 19.40% in 2010. The South Pars/North Dome Gas-Condensate field (9,700 km²) is the world's largest gas field (EIA) and is shared between Iran (South Pars 3,700 km²) and Qatar(North Dome 6,000 km²).
Quote:
In-place volumes are estimated to be around 1800 tcf gas in place and some 50 billion barrels of condensate in place. With in place volumes equivalent to 360 billion barrels of oil (310 Billion Boe of Gas and 50 Billion bbl of condensate) the field is the world’s biggest conventional hydrocarbon accumulation even bigger than Ghawar oil field, which has 170 billion barrels of original oil in place.
The field recoverable gas reserve is equivalent to some 215 billion barrel of oil and it also holds about 16 billion barrels of recoverable condensate corresponding of about 230 billion barrel of oil equivalent recoverable hydrocarbons.

ecasb.com

Saudi Arabia
The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad ibn ‘Abdullāh, was born in Mecca in about 570. He united the Arab tribes and created a single Islamic religious polity in the Arabian peninsula. Today, Al Mamlaka al ʻArabiyya as Suʻūdiyya, is the third largest Arab country with a population of 25.7 million. Domestic electricity demand is rising 10% per year and now uses 25% of its oil production—nearly three mbpd. Medium-term, Saudi Arabia is in danger of losing its all-important “reserve margin" (Saudi In Focus). Current production is about 7.7 mbpd from 1,560 wells (2005) that meet 73% of all incremental world demand. 90% of this production comes from 5 mega fields including Ghawar, the largest conventional oil field in the world.

Ghawar
It's ERoEI is 100:1. The 11,200 km^2 field was discovered in 1948 and put on stream in 1951 at a rate of rate of 15,600 bpd of dry oil. (EMIRATES 24/7). It reached a peak of 5.7 mbpd in 1981. Saudi Aramco indicates that Ghawar has produced 48% of its proven reserves. Currently production is over 5 mbpd (790,000 m^3). This is more than 60% of Saudi Arabia’s total production, 6% of the world’s oil supplies and over 15% of OPEC’s output. In April 2010, Saad al-Treiki, Vice-President for Operations at Aramco, reported that over 65 billion barrels (10.3 km3) have been produced from the field since 1951. Treiki further stated that the total reserves of the field had originally exceeded 100 billion barrels or 16 km^3(wiki). In 1959, Aramco started a 20-year gas injection programme at Ain Dar, one of Ghawar's areas, to sustain the reservoir pressure. They started secondary recovery techniques using water injection in 1964 (Upstream Online). Currently they are injecting about 7 million barrels of seawater every day and in 2004, the water cut was up to 55% (Kunstler, p78)

I told them that I have ordered a halt to all oil explorations so part of this wealth is left for our sons and successors God willing (King Abdullah)


Venezuela
Hugo Chávez (1954 - 2013) came to power in 1998 and replaced the the country's 1961 constitution with the República Bolivariana de Venezuela - after Simón Bolívar (1783 – 1830) who liberated Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Panamá, Perú y Bolivia from Spanish colonial rule. Oil revenue has increased from 51% of total income in 2000 to 56% 2006; oil exports have grown from 77% in 1997 to 89% in 2006(wiki). La cinturón de la brea or The Orinoco belt lies along the norther bank of the Rio Orinoco. It is 54,000 miles^2 of bitumen embeded in clays and sand which contains 1T barrels of extra heavy crude with an API gravity of 9 degrees and an ERoEI of 5 – 6. 513 billion barrels are technically recoverable.




Non OPEC Countries


Australia
Just a decade ago Australia was a net exporter of crude oil, producing more than needed for domestic consumption. Today production just over 50% of requirements, and is forecast (according to energy industry advisory firm EnergyQuest) to decline to about 20 per cent by 2030. (Paul Syvret, Courier.mail.com, 11 July 2010)


Brazil
Brazil has 12.6 billion barrels of proven oil reserves for 2009. Production was about 2.81 mbpd in 2010. Rio de Janeiro represents 80% of Brazil’s total production. Most of Brazil’s crude is deep offshore and mostly-heavy grade. In 2009, Petrobras tests the Pre-Salt Tupi field which is around 4,000m to 5,000m below the ocean floor. It is the largest discovery since the Kashagan field. The upper estimate is 1.3 km^3 or 8 billion barrels (wiki) Tupi is expected to produce 14 kbpd from 100 wells and cost around $50bn to $100bn.

Ethanol.
In 2008, Brazil produced 454 kbpd, with blending from 20-25%. It accounts for more than 50 percent of light vehicle fuel.


Canada
"The age of 'Tough Oil' has clearly begun. This year, the United States’ largest single source of imported oil is expected to be the Canadian tar sands. The bitumen is second largest source of oil in the world after Saudi Arabia. Canada has 85% of the world's supply in four regions: Athabasca, Wabasva, Cold Lake and Peace River - areas covering nearly 77,000 km^2 of boreal forest and muskeg. They contain about 1.7 trillion barrels (270×10^9 m^3) of bitumen in-place. "10% of these deposits, about 170 billion barrels (27×10^9 m^3) were considered to be economically recoverable at 2006 prices, making Canada's total oil reserves the second largest in the world, after Saudi Arabia's" (Wiki). The remaining 90% lies deep underground and extracting them may deliver a negative ERoEI. The easiest oil sands require 2 to 6 barrels of water to produce one barrel. Production is set to increase from 1.31 mbpd in 2008 to 3 mbpd in 2018 and to 3.5 mbpd by 2025, adding 4% to global production (The Mark). This unconventional oil comes mostly in a solid form, has a low ERoEI with more environmental impacts than conventional oil. It has to be either strip-mined which leaves a behind a devastated landscape, or melted out of the earth using natural gas.
Alberta Tar Sands: The High Cost of Oil Profits


China
Most populous country. Population has gone from 0.6 billion in 1950 to 1.330 in 2008 and will reach 1.5 in 2030. The economy grew by 9% from 2008 to 2010 and passed Japan to become the world's 2nd largest. Currently the Red Dragon's economy is improving while the US is on a downswing. Coal provides 69.5% of the contry's energy. Between 2003 and 2008, they added the equivalent of two coal-fired 600-megawatt plants a week. Last year China consumed 3.5 billion tons, 2.33x the 1.5 billion tons they required 10 years ago. As of 2009, they consume about 53% of the worlds cement, 47% of iron ore, 47% of coal, 54% of steel, 41% of aluminum, and 10% of oil. In 2009 China passes the US in auto sales. In 2010, 11.5 million were sold in the US while China had reached 17 million. (IHS Global Insight)

Quote:
New Chinese cities are springing up in mere months. A stop-motion video posted on the Internet last year showed a 15-story hotel being built in six days. A new coal power plant opens, on average, every four days. Twenty million Chinese move from the countryside to cities each year...China is building highways faster than any other nation, and its motorists are now buying around 13 million automobiles per year, versus 11 million annually in the U.S...China relies on coal for 80% of its electricity and 70% of its total energy. It's now using nearly half of all coal consumed globally [3,000,000,000+ tons per year, 3x U.S consumption]...Further, as with oil production, coal mining proceeds on the basis of the “best-first” or “low-hanging fruit” principle, so we must assume that China is extracting its highest-quality, easiest-accessed coal now, leaving the lower-quality and more expensively mined coal for later.

Richard Heinberg, The End of Growth, Chapter 5, 2011
BEIJING (Reuters) - China's apparent oil demand rose 12.5 percent in September from a year earlier, the sixth rise in a row and the fastest rate since June 2006, as refiners operated at record rates amid a sustained recovery in economic activity.

In 1980, China consumed 3% of the world's oil, now it is 10%, now the world's 2nd largest consumer. "China's oil need will rise to 11.3 mbpd by 2015, even with domestic production peaking at 4.0 mbpd" (CBSNEWS Opinion, 13 October 2010)


India
2nd most populous country with 1,190,930,000 as of 2 December 2010. The US Census Bureau predicts India’s population in 2025 will be just under 1.4 billion people - the 1st time that India’s growth will surpass that of China. By 2040, population is expected to be 1.52 billion. India’s total energy consumption: Coal 40%, oil 24%, and natural gas 6% (IEA). Energy imports could double to 53% of commercial energy consumption in 2031-32 from about 25% in 2003-04 (HSBC). India’s crude oil imports have more than doubled in the last ten years, touching 159.26 million tons in 2009-10 (PeakOil.com)


Kazakhstan


Mexico
The Cantarell oil field discovered in 1976 and 85 km de la ciudad del Carman is the worlds 8th largest; owned by Petroleos Mexicanos or Pemex. Since the production high of 3.4 mbpd in 2004-2005, output has fallen over 800 kbpd 'This field produces half of what Ghawar does' - C.R. Morton. 2009 - output fell by 7.8% (2.56 mbpd over last year) and is down 30% from its 2004 peak. 'Forcasting a decline to 2.5 mbpd by 2010'. 'Mexico's reserves will last for just 9 more years' (Business Week, 28 September 2009). All the more troubling considering Pemex represents 40% of Mexico's total revenues.

"Mexico throws in the towel". The death of Cantarell...the point Mexico becomes a net oil importer...[where]40% of the contry's budget is dependent on oil...recently announced it will cut back drilling by 60% at the Chicontepec oil field by 2011...[which is] Mexico's largest hydrocarbon reserve...139 billioln boe...Most of the oil...is extra heavy, which means it won't be as cheap to extract as the light stuff."" (Energy & Capital, 11 October 2010)


North Sea
The North Sea comprises the UK, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Germany Offshore. "The British and Norwegian sections hold most of the remainder of the large oil reserves. It is estimated that the Norwegian section alone contains 54% of the sea's oil reserves and 45% of its gas reserves.[11] More than half of the North Sea oil reserves have been extracted, according to official sources in both Norway and the UK. For Norway, the NPD [12] gives 4,601 million cubic metres (corresponding to 29 billion barrels) for the Norwegian North Sea alone (excluding smaller reserves in Norwegian Sea and Barents Sea) ultimate of which 2,778 (60%) already produced to January 2007. UK sources give a range of estimates of reserve, but even using the "maximum" estimate of ultimate recovery, 70% had been recovered at end 2006." (Wiki)

Since the 1970s, North Sea oil has provided Europe with an alternative to Middle East
crude and boosted non-OPEC production but output peaked in 1999... Oil output drops 14 pct in June (Joe Brock, 12 May 2010)

"We face a situation during the [next few years] where fuel price unrest could lead to shortages in consumer products and the UK's energy security will be significantly compromised. This has the potential to hit UK business and commerce as well as the most disadvantaged in society with yet another crisis." (UK's Industry Task Force, 2010)


Norway
'Norway is now reaching its production peak for gas, and a marked reduction in exports can be expected in the next decade...Even in the wake of the hardest economic recession of the last 30 years, oil prices are today about four times what they where a decade ago.' (Luís Moreira de Sousa, 13 July 2010)


Russia
Russian production increased from 3mbpd in the 1960s to a plateau of ±11 mbpd in the 1980s, followed by a drop to 6 mbpd in the mid 1990s. (Rembrandt, TOD) The USSR was exporting 2 mbpd till 1985. Then the USSR dissolved on December 25, 1991 where part of the collapse was due to Saudi Aramco for lowering oil prices below Soviet production costs. By 2005 however, production was 7.4 mbpd from 41,192 wells. Today, production has further recovered/increased. But according to Vladimir Putin, keeping up Russia’s oil output at 500 million tons a year will cost 9 trillion roubles ($292 billion) to halt what would otherwise be a 20% fall in production over the next 10 years. (Evgeniya Chaykovskaya, 30 October 2010). In October 2010, Russia sets a production record of 10.26 mbpd with increased output comming from Sakhalin Island.


United States
The world's 3rd most populous country (310,829,000 2010), has 4.51% of the worlds population, but uses 25% of its energy. In 1860, field production began with 1,000 bpd and by 1970, it peaked at 9.6 mbpd. In 2005, production was 5.8 mbpd from 521,070 wells. By 2009, it was down to 4.9 mbpd. It has been in decline ever since except from a recent growth from unconventional oil. Currently fossil fuel is 85% of total energy demand, about 45 - 50 million BOE/D (Peak Oil). At the present rate, the US has an R/P of only 11 years. "Over 85% of America’s oil wells are marginal wells – producing less than 15 bpd. Yet they produce about 20 percent of American oil production" (ipaa). Major Unconventional Fields: Bakken, Marcellus, Niobrara, Mississippi Lime, Bone Spring Sprabetty, Barnett Haynesville-Bossier, Eagle Ford and Deepwater Golf of Mexico subsalt.

The top five oil exporters to the US in September 2010 YTD are (kbpd): Canada 1,976, Nigeria 1,021, Mexico 1,116, Saudi Arabia 1,072, Venezuela 928 (EIA). Currently in 2011, about 2/3 of US oil is imported, the world's largest import dependency. "The price of oil has doubled in the past five years, but U.S. oil consumption has only fallen by about 10% over that time. So we are using less and paying a lot more overall." (Peakoil.com)

Exxon's grim stats on daily production:
2001 - a promise to produce 5 mbpd by 2005.
2006 - 4.23 mbpd
2007 - 4.18 mbpd
2008 - 3.92 mbpd, 3% of world production
Business Week, 16 Feb 2009
2009 - 2.39 (Jad Mouawad, The New York Times, 1 February 2010)

Shell’s recent ex-president John Hofmeister predicts $5 gas by 2012 (Tam Hunt)

Trans Alaska Pipeline System (TAPS), 1977
The 800 mile long TAPS funnels crude from the North Slope's Prudhoe Bay to the Port of Valdez. It was built to pump dry oil with flow rates above 500 kbd. The oil comes out of the ground and enters the pipeline at a temperature of up to 145° F. In 2008, when the flow rate at 703 kbd, it took 13 days at 2.6 mph for the oil to reach Valdez where the temp was 55.6° F. However, the wells are drying up. And despite a capacity of 2 mbpd, current flow is 700 kbpd (2010) and is falling at least 6% a year. Wax starts to form at 75° F, and ice forms from the salty water at 31° F. The widely considered minimum is about 500 kbpd; predicted to be reached by 2015. As of Feb 2012, the flow has fallen to 609 kbpd (TOD)

Keystone Pipeline Project
A $12 billion 2,673-kilometre (1,661-mile) 36" pipeline that begins in Hardisty, Alberta and runs on to Cushing, Oklahoma (Steele City, Nebraska to Oklahoma - Phase II). Keystone Pipeline is 435,000 barrels per day (69,200 m^3/d) which will be increased up to 590 kbpd (94,000 m^3/d). The Keystone XL is expected to be completed by 2012–2013.

"Much of the shale 'oil' in other western states is not actually oil. It is kerogen, an organic precursor to oil, in effect organic polymers that have not been subjected to enough heat and pressure to turn into oil. If you want to turn it into oil, you have to cook it (JHK, 4 April 2011)

Bakken Shale Oil
First noted by J.W. Nordquist in 1953. It is located in the Williston Basin and covers parts of Montana, North Dakota, and Saskatchewan. The amount of technically recoverable tight oil within the Bakken Formation is 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels out of perhaps 400 billion barrels of oil in place. Most of the oil is at a depth of 15,000 feet and is recovered using hoizontal drilling and fracking. With oil at around $100 a barrel, the rush is on. There are over 4300 shale oil wells in the Bakken formation of North Dakota producing about 610,000 barrels a day. Most of the Bakken oil production comes from Elm Coulee Oil Field, Richland County, where production began in 2000 and is expected to ultimately total 270 million barrels. In 2007, Elm Coulee averaged 53,000 bpd. (Wiki) Currently production is less than 400,000 bpd with a projected maximum of around 800,000 ten years from now. (JHK, 2011). These wells go quickly into steep decline. The average well yields around 85 000 Bbls during the first 12 months of production and then experiences a year over year decline of 40% (+/-) 2% (Rune Likvern, TOD). It is challenging to find support for the idea that total production of shale oil from the Bakken formation will move much above present levels of 0.6 - 0.7 Mb/d on an annual basis. (Rune Likvern, TOD). It is expected that production there will peak and start to wane in the next 2-5 years (Heinberg).


Marcellus Shale Oil
A Devonian-era shale oil found in northeastern Pennsylvania and southeastern New York. To get commercial quantities, fractures must be created in the rock (hydraulic fracturing).

Green River Oil Shale
There are 213 billion tons oil shale, about 60% of the world's total, covering portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. Estimates range from 1.2 to 1.8 trillion (about 1.5 trillion US barrels 2.38 × 10¹¹ m³) barrels of kerogen, which is greater than all the oil of Saudi Arabia. Kerogen as mentioned before, is a solid bituminous material that is a precursor of petroleum. The shale must mined and then retorted for about two weeks. The liquid is then separated and collected. The alternative is in situ retorting where it is heated underground and the liquid pumped to the surface. 'The EROI for oil shale falls between 1:1 and 2:1 when internal energy is counted as a cost' (Adam Brandt, 2008 - 2009).







Glossery

BOE - Barrel of oil equivalent.
BOE/D - Barrels of oil equivalent per day.
R/P - Reserve-to-production.

Proved World Reserves, metric tons
Coal - 847,488,000,000 R/P 133 years
Oil - 168,600,000,000 R/P 25 years
Natural Gas (LNG) - 128,611,000,000 R/P 60 years
Credit: British Geological Survey 2005

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Last edited by U4K61; 03-10-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:58 PM   #109
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:34 AM   #110
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It's $1.93 here.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:16 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkMore View Post
What's this crap with inflation? In 1909 - gas wasn't $3.20 a gallon. Was like a nickel or less. In 1920, it was .18 cents a gallon.

What's with everyone "adjusted for inflation".... blah blah blah stuff? Back then it was cheap.. now it's not.
for real drinkmore? you think avg income was like 30k back then, but cars were a coule hundred, houses might costs 5k and a loaf of bread was a nickle and everybody just bathed in all that extra money they had.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:30 AM   #112
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for real drinkmore? you think avg income was like 30k back then, but cars were a coule hundred, houses might costs 5k and a loaf of bread was a nickle and everybody just bathed in all that extra money they had.

I realize it's all relative. My point being, this whole "adjusted for inflation" term did not start popping out of peoples mouths until the last few years. Why now? I think it's just a way for people to make themselves sound smarter by going "Hey! Let me tack on this phrase so I sound very intelligent!".

OF COURSE things were cheaper back then compared to now. However, again - it's all relative.

Alas, call it what you will - I just don't like that term. Also don't like the term "man cave", however that is a personal preference
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:54 AM   #113
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Now, I'm not too savvy when it comes to economics - but are these prices a temporary thing? A little breath of fresh air? What are your thoughts, non-politically related?
Since there was no valid excuse for the incredible price rise, and no credible reason for the price dropping, I would imagine there's no credible reason not to expect them to go back up again.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:26 AM   #114
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Since there was no valid excuse for the incredible price rise, and no credible reason for the price dropping, I would imagine there's no credible reason not to expect them to go back up again.
actually there was.

two "little" countries called china and india (4x and 3x the size of the US in terms of pop. respecitviely) were going gangbusters in terms of growth and in terms of increasing oil usage. this gave fuel to speculation in the oil market on just wat supply and demand was going to be like if they kept growing like they were, which jacked up the price of oil.

once the global economy cooled off and we could get a better hold on what those two were dong economic wise, we realzied the entire GDP of there countries couldn't keep growing at double digit rates for 3 decades straight and that really cooled off the market on oil.

plus, all around the globe commerce is slowing down, which means less demand, but roughly the same amount of supply(OPEC) is trying to cut it enough to drive prices bac up), which also gives way to decline in prices.

it will take a while before we see $4 oil again. 18 months at least.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:39 AM   #115
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1.79 here.

It has been going up though. Just two weeks ago it was 1.63
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:43 AM   #116
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Was $1.40 a few weeks ago. It is now $1.70 or better.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:52 AM   #117
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I realize it's all relative. My point being, this whole "adjusted for inflation" term did not start popping out of peoples mouths until the last few years.

Nah..... it's been around for as long as their have been economists and inflation.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:58 AM   #118
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actually there was.

two "little" countries called china and india (4x and 3x the size of the US in terms of pop. respecitviely) were going gangbusters in terms of growth and in terms of increasing oil usage. this gave fuel to speculation in the oil market on just wat supply and demand was going to be like if they kept growing like they were, which jacked up the price of oil.
Yeah, like I said, no valid reason.

Speculation, not based on anything valid. The speculators didn't raise prices on that canard; their oil futures don't go past anything in currently stored reserves, and whatever's being pumped onto the boat in OPEC ports. We're talking six weeks max - not six months, or six years.

It was just a more creative version of the "rising tensions in the Middle East" crap we've heard for years,

Quote:
Originally Posted by stockstar1138 View Post
once the global economy cooled off and we could get a better hold on what those two were dong economic wise, we realzied the entire GDP of there countries couldn't keep growing at double digit rates for 3 decades straight and that really cooled off the market on oil.
Anyone with any kind of economic knowledge - and that was one heck of a lot of people -knew that was the case last spring. I was wondering what was wrong with the soothsayers when they all took off for Saudi, to grip at the princelings, who pointed out there was plenty of oil being shipped; plenty in the supply line; and no shortages, anywhere. Still, we watch current oil reserves rocketing up from $80 to $150 a barrel, with some nice creative writing around this "it's them Chinese fellers, they just gonna suck it all down" stuff that didn't make a lick of sense.

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Originally Posted by stockstar1138 View Post
plus, all around the globe commerce is slowing down, which means less demand, but roughly the same amount of supply(OPEC) is trying to cut it enough to drive prices bac up), which also gives way to decline in prices.

it will take a while before we see $4 oil again. 18 months at least.
Demand dropped like a stone here in the US, when people realized they couldn't spend zilch point squat for gasoline, and flat out stopped driving. I remember stopping in Santa Barbara on the way back from the coastal wine country, and paying $5.06 a gallon for premium gasoline. Cost me almost $130 to fill up.

Voodoo predictions from conniving speculators does not equate to the truth. I remember way too many folks, even within the industry, who at the time made it clear there was no reason for that kind of spike.

They get away with whatever they can get away with. Oil prices, housing prices, whatever. There is no logic beyond greed with those folks, no matter what fairy tales they spin.

Last edited by Blu-Dog; 01-12-2009 at 03:00 AM. Reason: quoting foulup...fixed it
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:03 PM   #119
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The Oil Post


The winds of change are in the air; old ideas seem important once again - Craig

The journey down [to] oil depletion will be much more disorderly then the journey up was - The Long Emergency

This oil thing has the potential to create economic hardship and a redistribution of wealth not seen since the fall of the Roman Empire. - Craig

I recognize that our quality of life in the developed world is a fragile, fortunate exception to the global historical norm of toil, oppression, poverty, disease, and death. - Dr. Geoffrey Miller


Introduction

This is about peak oil or flow rate; a future where we will have less but more expensive energy then we have today; a shrinking ecomomy where wealth can no longer be generated by barrowing and paying interest against future growth. Solutions will require a systemic cause and effect holistic approach to problem solving; a model that acknowledges a change in one part of the system will alter something else.

The energy situation is unprecedented and will cause the greatest changes man has seen since the dawn of civilization. The exceptionaly easy life created by cheap energy has caused us to overshoot the carying capacity of the earth. Our life style is unsustainable, drawing down numerous resorces faster then they can be replenished - a life of convenience created at the expense of burning copious amounts of non renewable energy. It's just a matter of time before demand, even if it starts to level off or go down, will out-strip supply. Oil prices will rise to punitive levels taking millions of motorists off the road, raise the cost of food, collapse the economy and leave governments in a bind on how to fulfill social obligations and control spending as a manageable percentage of GDP. See Oil Production: The Basics.

It is important to understand concepts listed below. To keep the long posts as short as possible, I leave it up to you to connect to dots. Be sure to follow all the links, they substantiate the claims made here.
My Own Work

A link back to this post:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/general-ch...ml#post2886921

Back to Philosophy

Last edited by U4K61; 04-18-2013 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:24 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Craig Ruchman View Post
[Show spoiler]The Oil Post

'The winds of change are in the air; old ideas seem important once again' - Craig

"The journey down [to] oil depletion will be much more disorderly then the journey up was" - The Long Emergency

This oil thing has the potential to create economic hardship and a redistribution of wealth not seen since the fall of the Roman Empire. - Craig

"I recognize that our quality of life in the developed world is a fragile, fortunate exception to the global historical norm of toil, oppression, poverty, disease, and death." - Spent, Dr. Geoffrey Miller, pp 33

I have been adding to my older posts listed here for some time now, and still have plenty to do. But events have proceeded faster then I thought, and at the rate I am going, the world will have given up on the oil solution long before I get to mention there is a problem. So here is the unfinished work.


Introduction

This is about peak oil and a future where we will have less energy then we have today; a shrinking ecomomy where wealth could be generated by barrowing and paying interest against future growth is no longer an option. Solutions will require a systemic holistic approach to problem solving, meaning everything is 'cause and effect'. You can't change one part of the system and not alter something else further on down the line.

The situation that is unfolding is unprecedented, perhaps in all of world history. The exceptionaly easy life created by cheap energy has caused us to overshoot the carying capacity of the earth. Our life style is unsustainable, drawing down resorces faster then they can be replenished - a life of convenience created at the expense of using copious amounts of non renewable energy. It is just a matter of time before demand, even if it starts to level off or go down, will out-strip supply. Oil prices will rise to punitive levels taking millions of motorists off the road, raise the cost of food, collapse the economy and leave governments in a bind on how to fulfill social obligations and control spending as a manageable percentage of GDP. See Oil Production: The Basics.

It is important to understand concepts listed below. To keep the long posts as short as possible, I leave it up to you to connect to dots. Be sure to follow all the links! They substantiate the claims made here.

Polar Opposites
The Yin and Yang, two fish or tadpoles, describe the shady and sunny sides of a hill. They symbolise the two primal forces of qi, life's breath or energy flow. Wuji, the boundless void, is the source of creation and knowledge is drawn as a circle. The Yin and Yang fit inside the Wuji to form the Taiji, the Supreme Ultimate. It is interesting that the empty or null set, which looks a lot like the Wuji from one point of view because there is nothing in it, can build up countably infinate and uncountably infinite sets. The eyes of Yin and Yang symbolize change. Black gives way to white just as night becomes day. Change is continuous and everlasting, one extreme giving way to its opposite, just as a pendulum swings from right to left.

One union of opposites is how black and white are balanced in a composition of moving images created by a film director. Without Yin and Yang, there would be no contrast, just a blank screen. It is interesting how just two polar oppisites can be combined in an infinite number of ways to tell a story.

An abstract example of the notion is found in the move 2001. From the beginning, man learns to develop tools to alter his environment only to loose control of them later on, as with the HAL 9000 computer.

Determinism
Using supply and demand concepts from economics, we see that price is a reflection of the two variables. We can state as supply goes down and/or demand goes up, prices will rise. However, there are limits to applying formula used to solve derterministic mathamatical problems being applied to perdict future events. The world is not deterministic, so we are left to make our 'best guess' based on the probability of an outcome. An example from physics is the uncertainty principle, where for example, we shine a light on a particle to measure its present position and velocity and use this measurment to predict its future position and velocity. Accuracy is limited to the distance between the wave crests of light. A shorter and more energetic wavelength can be used for a more accurate measurment, but in the process we disturb the particle by imparting energy to it, keeping a good perdiction of where it will be in the future out of reach. We become an active part of the experioment, rather then observers, simply by the act of observation. The oil picture is further blured by the fact we can never hope to construct a completed list describing all the variables the can effect supply and demand. If only the world were as simple as position and velocity and we can't even solve that.

An example is the IEA 2005 forcast for a cunsumption rate of 120mb/d by 2030. Now in 2008, it is down to 105mb/d as a result of the economic crises, higher fuel prices and policies regarding climate change. It is difficult to say how far the pendulum will swing one way or the other.

Reflexivity
"The world in which we live is inherently imperfect because we are part of the world we see to understand" - George Soros

"Reflexivity refers to circular relationships between cause and effect. A reflexive relationship is bidirectional; with both the cause and the effect affecting one another in a situation that renders both functions causes and effects" - Wiki. "People with imperfect understanding interact with reality in two ways: They seek to understand the world in which they live - the cognitive function. On the other, they seek to make an impact and change their situation to their advantage - the participating or manipulative function...when both functions are in operation at the same time, they may interact with eachouther...the phenomea do not consist only of facts, but also of intentions and expexctations about the future"

"For a function to be uniquely determined, it needs an independent variable which determines the value of the dependent variable. In the cognitive function the actual state of affairs is the independent variable, and the participants views the dependent one; in the manipulative function it is the other way around" George Soros, the Crash of 2008. This throws a wrench into the perfect mathamatical world where markets tend towards equilibrium, which is the intersection of the supply and demand curves. Even classical economists point out 'in the real market place equilibrium can only ever be reached in theory, so the prices of goods and services are constantly changing in relation to fluctuations in demand and supply'. Thus as is pointed out in the rest of the book, the human element upsets the well ordered applel cart of mathamatics which gives rise to 'speculative bubbles', such as the one we experienced in the housing market. Even knowing this, I am willing to put on the barber's basin and hope to transform it to manbrino's helmet and time the stock market to earn money out of thin air.

At any rate, the changes between high and low, europhia and despair are made more extreme, as if the pendulum is made to swing more violently back and forth. Is it in the end, just a zero-sum game?

Entropy
The three laws of thermodynamics
1. Conservation of energy
2. Entropy never decreases
3. Impossible to cool a system to absolute zero.

The pendulum swings back and forth. But it needs external imputs to keep it in motion, otherwise it will slow and come to a stop. The corrosive effects of entropy remorselessly breaks it down into its molecular components little by little into a difuse cloud till there is no trace that it ever once existed. A Greek tragedy in physics.


I digress. However, it seems I have read enouf books on the subject to be deluded into putting on my tarnished armor and to sally forth in a quixotic charge and make perdictions about our energy future. For it seems to me our problems are self evident, a notch above common sense. It all began when we transitioned from a hunter-gatherer to using the land for the cultivation of crops, domestication of draft amimals, and putting up stationary buildings. And man's supreme achievement, the controlling and pushing asside of nature with fire - the great mother lode feeding our insatiable appetite in having energy to do our work for us, never considering the ashes we have left behind.

It is important to read the previous posts and follow the links, as they contain the facts about the energy problem.
Some Solutions - We are going to have to reconsider how we go about food, housing, and transportation: An idea of mine is going back to a single income family. Think of the energy savings we get from the reduction in comuter traffic and heating/lighting the work spaces. There will be less income, but there will also be less spending for services to raise our kids because we are away at work. A great idea for the family, but a disaster for the government that needs the tax revenue from two earners.

Conservation.
Energy conservation and a decline in population are probably the two most important steps to sustainability.

"Game consoles in the US consume as much power as the city of San Diego, and our TVs consume enough electricity to power all the homes in the state of New York for an entire year." - Ken Pohlmann, S&V, December 2009.

Home Energy Use: Get a home energy audit, insulate.
Space Heating - 13%
Space Cooling - 31%
Water Heating - 12%, lower temp to 120.
Lighting 11%, use linear and compact flouresent; LED.
Electronics 9%, buy a laptop, LED/LCD TV.
Appliances 9%, look for Energy Star, use a clothesline.
Refrigeration 8%, set freezer to 5deg/fridge 37 -40, automatic moisture, freezer on top.
Other 8%

Food.
This is going to be reducing the distance from where food comes from the ground to the kitchen table. The shortest and least energy intensive is when you grow it in your own backyard or in the local community using a hoe, pick and shovel, and a plow pulled by draft animals. This method is sustainable because you get more calories of energy then you put into growing it, otherwise we would have starved long ago. Currenty it is costing 10 calories in energy for every 1 we consume, an unsustainable deficit.

Transportion
The longer our oil supplies hold out, the more people will have that are dependent on the car, and the harder it will be to return to a life-style we had before motorization. It is time to trade in the SUV for a Smart Car, Prius, or Cooper Mini. Longer term, it will be using public transportation, trains, the bicycle, less air travel, and sailing ships. Conservation does not have to be boring. See Halosonic


Helpful links.
good read +1

looks like you copied a college thesis onto this forum, but it was very informative
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