The Golden Compass

[The Laughing Man]

Originally Posted by nomad2010

it's called an alethiometer throughout the whole movie. they just switched it in the previews as not to confuse people. an the northern lights aren't even in the movie so that's kind of sad but other than that i was very impressed.

I think it was referred to as the Golden Compass one time in the books - but it's been a while since I read the books so I don't remember.

I agree w/ whoever said 'The Northern Lights' is a better title. IMO, the northern lights have more to do w/ the overall plot of the books rather than the Golden Compass.

[Right of Might]

Originally Posted by nomad2010

it's called an alethiometer throughout the whole movie. they just switched it in the previews as not to confuse people. an the northern lights aren't even in the movie so that's kind of sad but other than that i was very impressed.

Well that's good news on the name, but no Northern Lights??? No other city in the sky? I wonder how they cover the whole "Other worlds thing".

[The Laughing Man]

Originally Posted by Right of Might

Wow excellent article. Once again the church got it wrong. This is kind of laughable because they really got it wrong. I just find it interesting that an Atheist would portray God is this light at all. This is also another example of how a person can be smart but on the whole people are stupid.

Unfortunately, that article is a reporter's opinion on the books, not the actual meaning of the books per Pullman.

For those who'd like to hear Pullman's take here are some links:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main...7/bodark17.xml - this is probably the best interview.

http://www.powells.com/authors/pullman.html

http://insightscoop.typepad.com/2004...-pullmans.html

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comme...640003,00.html

[aristotles]

Regardless of how you feel about this, it seems blatantly obvious to me that this movie and the books are not suitable for children or for school curriculum.


If all of you agree that the separation of church and state is important then you should agree that discussing such matters with children is up to parents and that public schools should not be exposing children. To do so would be a violation of the separation of church and state. This concept not only exists to protect the state from church interference but also the church from state interference.

[owa]

Sorry, have to pass on this one.

[doctorsteve]

I could post a zillion examples of different media (movies, music, art) that have had anti- pro- or neutral religious content that have been around for years and nobody has thrown a fit about.

We've all seen these images, and listened to these songs, and had experiences that have shaped who we are. But here's the key:

We accept what we WANT to, and reject what we WANT to - and anything we're not old enough to truly understand will go right over our heads.

You know how many Bugs Bunny Cartoons, works of art or books I've only TRULY understood once I became an adult? Plenty.

I'm not saying that we should all count on the idea that children are impressionable but not totally impressionable. I AM saying that if someone (child OR adult) has their opinion changed, their view altered by having a character in a movie say or do something - then they were on shaky ground to begin with. They were undecided, confused, or curious.

“If people think an artist can destroy their faith, then their faith is fragile. - Brian Hugh Warner

...and by the way - his stage name is Marilyn Manson. Never thought I'd quote him, but it's true.

[aristotles]

I approached the seeing the movie with an open mind. I did not even connect what I saw with the controversy about the book when I wrote my critique here and I had not read any reviews prior to seeing it.

I find it to be extremely irresponsible for the producers of this film to be billing this film as a "children's story". The movie deals with a number of adult themes which are completely inappropriate for young children.

Many of you are possibly not seeing the controversy because you do not have any exposure to the theology or religion in general.

This guy hated the Christian themse in the work of C.S. Lewis and even stated so on several occasions.

The dust is not God but rather original sin.

[Right of Might]

Where did this thread go wrong. Nomad was simply sharing his impressions of a movie he saw and it turned the thread into a theology debate...Why? I'm not going to continue the debate, which is really out of place on a board about movies not theology. Aristotles, I can appreciate your point of view but I think it's a little out of place. If you don't want to see the movie simply state that and move on. Frankly I'm surprised this thread hasn't been nuked already (although it has been rather civil). As Doctorsteve pointed out this is not the biggest controversial form of media to ever come out but it shouldn't have that big of an impact being a work of FICTION. If you have kids don't let them read it. Who cares if dust is God, the Devil, Sin or the Tooth Fairy??? In case your wondering I did have a religious upbringing, Mormon in fact so yes I am familiar with religion. Now religion and belief is not what this thread was about. Now can we please not derail this thread any further.

[Seretur]

I also don't want to continue down the theology debate -- not least because this isn't an appropriate forum for it.

Just a quick explanation of the title issue ought to suffice for now.

Pullman initially decided to call the trilogy The Golden Compasses -- referring to the geometrist's measurement tool, in this case used in reference to the order of the Universe. He then entitled the first book Northern Lights, for reasons apparent at its ending. However, there was a miscommunication with the American publisher, and the first book was published as The Golden Compass. In the meantime, the trilogy had already been renamed to His Dark Materials -- a quote from John Milton, whose Paradise Lost forms the intellectual kernel of the trilogy.

Interestingly enough, while Pullman never explicitly equates the Alethiometer with the Golden Compass name, he did decide to name the remaining two books after nicknames for two other important instruments -- both the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass being descriptive names for the tools in question. So this gives a validity to the US naming of the first book and the film, and also creates a nice symmetry that the UK editions don't possess.

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by aristotles

Regardless of how you feel about this, it seems blatantly obvious to me that this movie and the books are not suitable for children or for school curriculum.

If all of you agree that the separation of church and state is important then you should agree that discussing such matters with children is up to parents and that public schools should not be exposing children. To do so would be a violation of the separation of church and state. This concept not only exists to protect the state from church interference but also the church from state interference.

Just want to be clear. Do you feel the Narnia books and movies are unsuitable for children or school curriculum also?

--Darin

[doctorsteve]

Originally Posted by aristotles

I find it to be extremely irresponsible for the producers of this film to be billing this film as a "children's story". The movie deals with a number of adult themes which are completely inappropriate for young children.

If this is true, then adult themes will garner a rating that parents can use to decide if their child should see it. "PG" Stands for parental guidance - if no guidance, then Go Fish.

Originally Posted by aristotles

Many of you are possibly not seeing the controversy because you do not have any exposure to the theology or religion in general.

I'm sure the terribly impressionable children that will see this have a vast understanding of the theology and of religion in general - and will lose sleep over the controversy of it all. They will be soooo confused! (that was sarcasm).

Seriously - it will likely go over their heads and what they will remember was that cool scene where those two polar bears fought each other (yeah, that was COOL man!)

Originally Posted by aristotles

This guy hated the Christian themes in the work of C.S. Lewis and even stated so on several occasions.

Now that you mention it, every single parent that went to see Chronicles with their kids did so - so that their children would get the proper education about the way to salvation from a talking, resurrected Lion that they SURELY weren't getting from the Sunday School classes that the parents sent their children to weekly. Thank Dr. Elden Tyrell that we have movies to be such a faith-altering force in the lives of our young ones (Who's major joy in going to the movies - in reality - is watching cartoon animals roar and eating Sno-Caps and gummy worms).

Why - in the frikken World - is this any different from any other movie. If you take your kid to anything other than a "G" movie, you accept the responsibility of exposing them to things they aren't ready for.

I didn't hear any parents describing the significance of the Ice Queen and her Satanic role of corrupter of innocence after leaving The Chronic (What?) cles of Narnia.

Maybe because all the 8 and 10 year olds already understood it and accepted it - they did, after all, just watch the movie - Right? They had just received a big injection of spiritual guidance and education from a group of kids that walk through a magic closet.

Please close this thread! It has gone from a review to a forum for people espouse religious belief and impress their opinion of such on others. The discussion and debate within has peaked.

Thank you for allowing me to express my view on hypocrisy and general silliness.

Doc

[Steverhcp02]

Originally Posted by radagast

Sometimes an open mind isn't a good thing. For one thing, your brains might spill out. Second, it's a good way to get brainwashed.

Right as opposed to listening to you or others and not making up your mind yourself....good call, champ.

Lets clarify, by brainwashed you clearly mean "its a good way to perhaps not fall in line with my view which means you're clearly wrong" That is all.

[Seretur]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

How does Ms. Green look in the movie

I can tell you she's one of the most beautiful women in the world, in real life.

[MasterXeus]

Originally Posted by radagast

Sometimes an open mind isn't a good thing. For one thing, your brains might spill out. Second, it's a good way to get brainwashed.

lol, I don't have a problem with my brains falling out, but thanks for the warning.

Good way to get brainwashed? lol and being close minded isn't?

Sometimes, closed minded people don't see the truth even thought it's right in front of them.

[blu2]

Originally Posted by aristotles

I approached the seeing the movie with an open mind. I did not even connect what I saw with the controversy about the book when I wrote my critique here and I had not read any reviews prior to seeing it.

I find it to be extremely irresponsible for the producers of this film to be billing this film as a "children's story". The movie deals with a number of adult themes which are completely inappropriate for young children.

The movie is rated PG-13, so I would assume most parents would (or should) make an informed decision on taking young children to the movie.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by darinp2

Just want to be clear. Do you feel the Narnia books and movies are unsuitable for children or school curriculum also?

--Darin

Do the Narnia books advocate overthrow of civil governments? Do they try to twist the meaning of established themes of good and evil? Are the Narnia books different from other morality tales?

Are the books of Narnia attacking a specific group in society or are they a positive morality tale? No.

[aristotles]

Open mindedness is has nothing to do with having an open mind at all but rather it is a code word for having a countercultural viewpoint that clashes with the religious or secular establishment.

Let's call a spade a spade. Nobody is truly open minded. Everyone has a bias.

BTW. I don't get why some of you are so afraid to discuss religion like you might "catch" something. I'd like to coin a new term religiophobe. Some of you are religiophobes or Deity-phobes.

[Steverhcp02]

Originally Posted by aristotles

Do the Narnia books advocate overthrow of civil governments? Do they try to twist the meaning of established themes of good and evil? Are the Narnia books different from other morality tales?

Are the books of Narnia attacking a specific group in society or are they a positive morality tale? No.

And therein lies the issue morals are subjective....would you steal medicine if you couldnt afford the exuberant fee to save your dieing mother? Or would you do the law abiding thing and watch her die. Or justify the stealing as the folks who are responsible for the meds sit on their yacht or in their 4 million dollar home?

Some call it blasphemy, others call it art. The problem i have with the issue is christians are supposed to be loving and tolerant of ALL folks, even those who denounce god......yet modern religion and society has put us into a good vs evil postion on everything. We always argue one side is right and one is wrong......everything isnt black and white, grayness is where all the answers are and that isnt tolerated in modern religion. Its my way or the highway, this mindset has never proven successful in humanity. Dictatorship anyone?. There is no matter of fact answer to anything let alone faith in a supernatural being no one can prove even exists......

The thing is, religious folks try picking the fights that are easy or that are cheap. They attack cinema, literature, opinions......yet they ignore real issues like Aids, world hunger, Darfur.....things god should actually care about....does god care more about The Golden Compass, or millions of people dieing due to starvation or curable diseases in 3rd world countries.

Morals, ha....sometimes i feel as an atheist i may be judged on my contributions to society better than most of the vocal christians i see.....judge me on my actions not my preaching.....this gives me faith, ill lead a good life, if when i die i face teh big guy upstairs ill shwo him my resume.....it will probably blow all of those part time christians out of the water as far as how i left this world.....they can spend their time screaming until theyre blue in the face of Da Vinci's Code or The Golden Compass.....ill be volunterring at big brother big sister and donating funds to help cure cancer.....sorry if i sleep in and watch football on sundays, im pretty comortable with my contributions....dont talk to me about morals

[DealsR4theDevil]

Originally Posted by Steverhcp02

And therein lies the issue morals are subjective....would you steal medicine if you couldnt afford the exuberant fee to save your dieing mother? Or would you do the law abiding thing and watch her die. Or justify the stealing as the folks who are responsible for the meds sit on their yacht or in their 4 million dollar home?

Some call it blasphemy, others call it art. The problem i have with the issue is christians are supposed to be loving and tolerant of ALL folks, even those who denounce god......yet modern religion and society has put us into a good vs evil postion on everything. We always argue one side is right and one is wrong......everything isnt black and white, grayness is where all the answers are and that isnt tolerated in modern religion. Its my way or the highway, this mindset has never proven successful in humanity. Dictatorship anyone?. There is no matter of fact answer to anything let alone faith in a supernatural being no one can prove even exists......

The thing is, religious folks try picking the fights that are easy or that are cheap. They attack cinema, literature, opinions......yet they ignore real issues like Aids, world hunger, Darfur.....things god should actually care about....does god care more about The Golden Compass, or millions of people dieing due to starvation or curable diseases in 3rd world countries.

Morals, ha....sometimes i feel as an atheist i may be judged on my contributions to society better than most of the vocal christians i see.....judge me on my actions not my preaching.....this gives me faith, ill lead a good life, if when i die i face teh big guy upstairs ill shwo him my resume.....it will probably blow all of those part time christians out of the water as far as how i left this world.....they can spend their time screaming until theyre blue in the face of Da Vinci's Code or The Golden Compass.....ill be volunterring at big brother big sister and donating funds to help cure cancer.....sorry if i sleep in and watch football on sundays, im pretty comortable with my contributions....dont talk to me about morals

+1

[werewuf]

This movie is only running at 40% at Rotten Tomatoes, seems the team of Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig are the kiss of death with reviewers (The Invasion tanked big time). The Golden Compass probably won't do any better at the box office either, but that does remain to be seen.....