PS3 DTS MA & TrueHD Questions

[kiko]

Thank you for the quick reply !

And what about PCM sound ? It's decoded inside the PS3 and then sent to the decoder ? Can a decoder "decode" PCM, or it's meant to be decodeed inside the player ?

[kiko]

oh and another question... DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD need HDMI to go to the decoder... is it the same thing for PCM, or I can use it with Optical link ?

[MacDaddyOJack]

Originally Posted by kiko

Thank you for the quick reply !

And what about PCM sound ? It's decoded inside the PS3 and then sent to the decoder ? Can a decoder "decode" PCM, or it's meant to be decodeed inside the player ?

PCM is not "decoded" because it is never compressed in the first place. Since it is not compressed, it requires a lot of bandwidth for transmission to your reciever. For that reason, you can only get PCM in 2 channels (L/R) over optical. You still need HDMI for PCM 5.1 or 7.1

The reciever only applies post processing alterations (bass enhancement, equilizers, etc.) since PCM is not decoded at all. However, if you ever get a reciever that can decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA, then I prefer to decode in the reciever as it can be taxing on the memory of the player. You need player memory for proper playback so I think its best to have the reciever do the decoding. However, the PS3 will never bitstream the new audio codecs, so you will only need an HDMI capable reciever (to accept PCM signals) if the PS3 is your dedicated Bluray player. The PS3 will do the decoding and send the signal out as PCM to your reciever. Then the only thing left is to pray that the PS3 will someday be able to decode DTS-MA!!!

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by kiko

oh and another question... DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD need HDMI to go to the decoder... is it the same thing for PCM, or I can use it with Optical link ?

With the PS3 the only thing you can send out is two channel PCM via optical. Anything multi-channel must be HDMI.

[DrasticPlastic]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

With the PS3 the only thing you can send out is two channel PCM via optical. Anything multi-channel must be HDMI.

You can send multichannel out via bitstream using optical can't you.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by DrasticPlastic

You can send multichannel out via bitstream using optical can't you.

you can send standard 5.1 dolby and dts over optical...but for lossless audio (PCM-TrueHD-Dts-HD) you need HDMI.

[kiko]

Really interesting ! Thanks I think I will stick with my PS3 as a Blu-ray player if DTS MA is supported in the future ! I don't really care if it can bitstream high end codecs, as long as it can decode HD sounds, I'm sure it'll be the same to me !

But is it sure at 100% that even a firmware update won't allow the Ps3 to bitstream DST HD and Dolby TrueHD ?

Oh and a last question (for now :P) ! What is the main difference between the standalone decoder and the PS3 to decode HD codecs ? I mean, decoding is decoding... The standalone decoder is meant to decode, just like the chip in the PS3 is meant to decode... Isn't the difference just that one send it compressed, then is uncompressed and then sent to speakers, compared to the other wish decode in hardware, then send the decoded sound to the decoder wich dispatch the already decoded sound to the speakers ? Isn't it the same, but it a different order ?

[Tee]

There is no difference from a stand alone BD player that decodes internally vs. the PS3 internal decoding, unless the the stand alone decodes DTS-HD MSTR. Then that owuld be the only difference b/c the PS3 will only decode the core of the DTS-HD MSTR. I like MacDaddyOJack and others prefer the bitstream over internal decoding, and i beleive (from what i have heard) thet the processing from the AVR or Pre/Pro sounds better than internal decoding. I hear the difference, on paper they should sound the same but in the real world my ears tell me different! I hear better detail, seperation, a open soundstage and much better panning of the surrounds vs. internal processing. I hope that Sony will release a firmware upgrade for DTS-HD MSTR for the PS3, DTS-HD MSTR is an upgrade in SQ that the PS3 owners will appreciate.

[David Craig]

I am a bit puzzled. I have heard that the PS/3 does not handle DTS Master Audio yet

I have just watched Die Hard 1 with sound track set to DTS Master Audio and the PS/3 set to Linear PCM. This was with firmware 2.01 (not even up to the 2.10 level)

It did play and sounded pretty good.

However one of the earlier posts implies that it is expected to work but I won't get the full data rate. Is that is what is going on?

I had expected "not working with DTS Master Audio" to mean that I wouldn't even be able to select it, or that maybe only two channels might appear instead of 5.1.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by David Craig

I am a bit puzzled. I have heard that the PS/3 does not handle DTS Master Audio yet

I have just watched Die Hard 1 with sound track set to DTS Master Audio and the PS/3 set to Linear PCM. This was with firmware 2.01 (not even up to the 2.10 level)

It did play and sounded pretty good.

However one of the earlier posts implies that it is expected to work but I won't get the full data rate. Is that is what is going on?

I had expected "not working with DTS Master Audio" to mean that I wouldn't even be able to select it, or that maybe only two channels might appear instead of 5.1.

Dts-HD Master was designed to be backwards compatible with any receiver that has the Lgeacy Dts decoder. Dts-HD MA contains what is called the "core" mix. This is what is being sent from the PS3. (hit diplay button on the BD remote and you should see it display "Dts 1.5Mbps"...once the PS3 can decode Master, it will display "Dts-HD Master" at a much higher bitrate.)

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Dts-HD Master was designed to be backwards compatible with any receiver that has the Lgeacy Dts decoder. Dts-HD MA contains what is called the "core" mix. This is what is being sent from the PS3. (hit diplay button on the BD remote and you should see it display "Dts 1.5Mbps"...once the PS3 can decode Master, it will display "Dts-HD Master" at a much higher bitrate.)

Much higher bitrate is an understatement from 1.5 to upto 18. Of course that is a max number but still 12X.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl

Much higher bitrate is an understatement from 1.5 to upto 18. Of course that is a max number but still 12X.

DTS says max is 27 Mbps

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

DTS says max is 27 Mbps

I looked at the wrong number it is24.5Mbps.
18 is the others number.



http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php

[crackinhedz]

24.5Mbps...youre right, good call. 27 was stuck in my head for some reason...

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

24.5Mbps...youre right, good call. 27 was stuck in my head for some reason...

Then again at those levels how many of us will be able to tell?

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl

Then again at those levels how many of us will be able to tell?

...I find it strange that HD-DVD max is 18 while Bluray is 24.5, yet their both lossless?? that never made sense to me?

[quetzalcoatl]

I just remebmered where the 18Mbps is that is TrueHD.

http://www.dolby.com/promo/HD/trueHD.html

Good to know I am not just loosing my mind.

[Tee]

"DTS HD MA not sure how I lived without it. "

Excellent quote quetzalcoatl!

I feel the same way, it is amazing how wondeful the sound is.

[Harry_Krishna]

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl

That I would say no to for sure. But by the reading it could do MA via bitstream. Problem is leaving off those last two letters is a big deal with DTS. Since DTS HD can mean both HR and MA.

Hmmm, having done some more research (into the wee morning hours . . . . ), looks like I will be returning the SONY S500, and trying the new Panasonic BD30. From what I have been reading, and you ALL will get a kick out of this - folks are complaining that it does NOT decode DD THD or DTS HD MA internally, you have to BITSTREAM it out to a receiver with the proper decoder. Like DUH???? This is what EVERY PS3 and new Onkyo/Dennon/Yamaha owner have been wishing for, and these folks are complaining about it??? Some go so far as to say this BD player will fail. Sheesh, shows you can't please everyone. But from one early review I read on the AVS Forums by Brad Ley, this new Panny has everything we'd want (except playing games). 1080p/24, deep color, 1.1 final form, 4 PIP, bitstream THD and MA, fast load times (some say near PS3 times), and a bunch of other perks. Well, if my local CC has it, I will find out tomorrow!

[toolman46and2]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

The PS3 will decode Dolby TrueHD internally and send it to the Denon via Linear PCM.

The PS3 does not yet decode DTS-HD MA. Word is that it will by christmas...hopefully.


The PS3 cannot output high resolution audio via bitstream, so for those formats you will need to leave the PS3 set on Linear PCM. (your Denon should display "Multichannel" or something to that extent)


but you can toggle back and forth between Bitstream and Linear PCM when needed. During a movie...hit the triangle button and go to AV Settings

I have the Onkyo 605 and when I set the PS3 to PCM via the HDMI all I get is sound out of the front 3 speakers, also setting it from PCM to bitstream with HDMI has no effect(both display the same on the reciever.)