Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[octagon]

Originally Posted by NYorker

but don't think there are "millions who demand the originals" because there aren't.

If you mean demand in some foaming-at-the-mouth-I-will-buy-nothing-but sense then you're probably right...that's probably a relatively modest (though still, I would think, sizable) number of people.

If, on the other hand, you mean demand in the economic 'willing and able to buy' sense then I think your numbers might be a bit off. I strongly suspect an unaltered edition of the OT would sell pretty well. Certainly well enough to break even.

Eight additional minutes of Avatar sold extremely well. The LOTR theatricals flew off the shelves and when they become available the extended releases will fly off just as fast if not faster (perhaps a lot faster depending on whether the Earth still has a gravitational pull when that finally happens). You can't bump your mouse in this place without hitting posts about the Full Disclosure Edition of this or the Ultimate Collecters Set of that.

There's plenty of empirical evidence that shows even the nichiest, nerdiest multiple releases can generate significant sales.

The only surprise in this case would be if people didn't line up to buy them.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Most of them won't understand exactly how can all of this be very important because they are not film lovers and they won't care.

That's probably true. While I think some of content changes (Han shot first) have a wider mainstream awareness most people think most of this stuff is nothing more than geeks bickering.

Just like the carping about Original Aspect Ratios you already mentioned.

Or lossy audio. Most people don't even have blu-ray players yet and most of those think Lossy Codex is the worst porn name they've ever heard. They neither know nor care.

And yet, studios know they can't just slap any old transfer with any old audio files on a disc and call it a BD release precisely because the pissers and the moaners and the geeks who write reviews can at least influence how a product is received.

Do I think *****ing about this cut or that is going to turn the tide somewhere? No, of course not. But I do have to wonder if a steady drumbeat of grumbling, pleading, reasoning (along with a healthy dash of incoherent ravings if for no other reason than they're fun) can nudge things a bit this way or that.

And it's not like any of us have anything better to do anyway...

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by SANAFABICH

You obviously never heard about conventions all around the world filled with millions of nerds who do and will care.

I attend conventions and none of them attract millions of fans.

The biggest in the world is probably comicon in San Diego and it as an atendance of 150 000 to 200 000. Then if you think most of the fans there are doing so just for Star Wars, again not the case. A lot of them might be for Star Trek, Stargate, anime, comic books. I don't even think that the Star Wars Celebrations attract that number of people.

In my post, I am not saying Star Wars is not popular, I am simply saying that the number of fans who put the importance on OT, sound, images, scenes added or remove, EU, what is canon or not is not that amazing. It's a hardcore, granted extremely vocal one, group but far from being the majority.

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by octagon

If you mean demand in some foaming-at-the-mouth-I-will-buy-nothing-but sense then you're probably right...that's probably a relatively modest (though still, I would think, sizable) number of people.

If, on the other hand, you mean demand in the economic 'willing and able to buy' sense then I think your numbers might be a bit off. I strongly suspect an unaltered edition of the OT would sell pretty well. Certainly well enough to break even.

Eight additional minutes of Avatar sold extremely well. The LOTR theatricals flew off the shelves and when they become available the extended releases will fly off just as fast if not faster (perhaps a lot faster depending on whether the Earth still has a gravitational pull when that finally happens). You can't bump your mouse in this place without hitting posts about the Full Disclosure Edition of this or the Ultimate Collecters Set of that.

There's plenty of empirical evidence that shows even the nichiest, nerdiest multiple releases can generate significant sales.

The only surprise in this case would be if people didn't line up to buy them.

I don't think Avatar & LOTR is a fair analogy.
If JC wouldn't announce he's releasing an extended cut, no one would say anything because they're getting exactly what they know exists.

Also, there is no "extended edition" of Star Wars, like LOTR. the LOTR EE were created specifically for home viewing/special screenings. The TE's were essentially the "director's cut." (and I disagree how the TE's flew off the shelf - witness how quickly the price dropped; that wouldn't happen so quickly if it had "flown" off the shelf.)

GL didn't alter the story. He just made a few tweaks here and there. Certainly not like Avatar (16 min) or LOTR (about a zillion) where the addition make a great difference.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by octagon

Do I think *****ing about this cut or that is going to turn the tide somewhere? No, of course not. But I do have to wonder if a steady drumbeat of grumbling, pleading, reasoning (along with a healthy dash of incoherent ravings if for no other reason than they're fun) can nudge things a bit this way or that.

And it's not like any of us have anything better to do anyway...

You never know! In this case there is only one person to convice, granted a very stubborn one but he is the only person that need's to be sold on the idea. I can already tell him that yes I will buy the Special Edition (I like them) but I would double dip and get a OT set if he release them on Blu-ray. So that is already one sale for him

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

You never know! In this case there is only one person to convice, granted a very stubborn one but he is the only person that need's to be sold on the idea. I can already tell him that yes I will buy the Special Edition (I like them) but I would double dip and get a OT set if he release them on Blu-ray. So that is already one sale for him

I dunno, Lucas has surrounded himself with 'yes' men who do nothing but agree with him. Once he has an idea in his head, they are not going to try to do anything to sway him. For example, had Lucas been smart he would have hired a script writer to WRITE the screenplays for the PT. Instead he has these clowns around him that say: "You can do it all! That's a great idea!" There is a reason WHY fans debate between the PT and the OT. Too much creative control in one guy's hands can lead to some huge disparity between the two. I am NOT saying one trilogy is better than the other, but rather that they way they were made, starting with the writing set two different tones which leads to everything else. Hire a guy to write your scripts and challenge you on some ideas. It helps.

Regardless, I agree with your previous post about the common film goer. Its a distraction for a Saturday night when you can't go out. Its not a hobby for them, so they don't care if Han shot first or not. More than likely those people rent the movies or buy the complete Saga. I think they would be hard pressed to choose one set over the other.

[IndefinentBlu]

Did anyone notice in EP6 when Luke is hiding from Vader under the throne room floor that it looks like Vader is holding Lukes saber in his left hand but when Luke gives in to his anger and attacks Vader he seems to already have his own saber in his hand i wonder if this will be explained or is in the alternate scenes list of the blu-ray????

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

Did anyone notice in EP6 when Luke is hiding from Vader under the throne room floor that it looks like Vader is holding Lukes saber in his left hand but when Luke gives in to his anger and attacks Vader he seems to already have his own saber in his hand i wonder if this will be explained or is in the alternate scenes list of the blu-ray????

If I recall correctly, Luke refuses to fight at one point and tosses his lightsaber to Vader. I think I read that somewhere. Not 100% sure though.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

Did anyone notice in EP6 when Luke is hiding from Vader under the throne room floor that it looks like Vader is holding Lukes saber in his left hand but when Luke gives in to his anger and attacks Vader he seems to already have his own saber in his hand i wonder if this will be explained or is in the alternate scenes list of the blu-ray????

Yeah Vader does have Luke's lightsaber then Luke ignites his and starts the final fight between the two. I wonder if he pulls it out of his hand with the Force? Or maybe it's just a continuity error?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I dunno, Lucas has surrounded himself with 'yes' men who do nothing but agree with him. .

What a load of Bantha dung.

He's the boss, he runs his company. He's the writer and director. Even if someone disagreed he's still going to do it his way.

Hate to break it to you but in the real world you do what your boss tells you to do.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

What a load of Bantha dung.

He's the boss, he runs his company. He's the writer and director. Even if someone disagreed he's still going to do it his way.

Hate to break it to you but in the real world you do what your boss tells you to do.

"What happened? Did your balls drop off or something?" Where I work, we share ideas and usually it helps things. You might want to get a new job...

Listen, no other film maker would have ever let those DVDs in 04 come out with the terrible color issues because they are informed. Lucas, was not. Couldn't have been. These guys Lucas has working for him care about making $$$. That's it. They are Yes men through and through and say everything King George is doing is AMAZING. "Release the movies on dvd?!?! SURE! Let's rush it out! Colors looks great!" Easiest way to tell someone has surrounded themselves with the wrong people is when a CLEAR problem is brought up and the response is: that is the way it is intended to be.

I find it hard to believe that not one of them looked at the 'pink lightsaber' in Empire and thought: "Ya know what? That doesn't look right...." Most guys, would have said: Wait a sec, why is Hoth blue? Shouldn't we tell George? No, these guys understood they had a deadline to meet and money to make. Classic.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I dunno, Lucas has surrounded himself with 'yes' men who do nothing but agree with him. Once he has an idea in his head, they are not going to try to do anything to sway him. For example, had Lucas been smart he would have hired a script writer to WRITE the screenplays for the PT.

You must have missed it when this was discussed several times already. Lucas himself says he doesn't like directing or writing... he's a visual guy. But he had a big falling out with the American Guilds in the 80's (which influenced his director's choice for Rotj) and he'll roll over dead before he uses them again (and the guild members won't be able to go on a Lucas production without consequences from the Guild)

"The Hollywood unions have been taken over by the same lawyers and accountants who took over the studios," Lucas says angrily. "When the Writers Guild was on strike, I couldn't cross the picket line in my function as a director in order to take care of American Graffiti when the studio was chopping it up. I quit the Director's Guild because the union lawyers were locked in a traditional combat with the studio lawyers. The union doesn't care about it's members. It cares about making fancy rules that sound good on paper and are totaly impractical. They said Lucasfilm was a personal credit, not a corporate credit. My name is not George Lucasfilm any more than William Fox's name was Twentieth Century-Fox. On that technicality, they sued me for $250,000. You can pollute half the Great Lakes and not get fined that much. When the DGA threatened to fine Kershner $25,000, we paid his fine. I consider it extortion. The day after I settled with the Director's Guild, the Writers Guild called up. At least their fine didn't go all into the business agents' pockets. Two-thirds went to writers."


http://books.google.com/books?id=P2P7pwHeZSkC&pg=PA139

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by octagon

Do I think *****ing about this cut or that is going to turn the tide somewhere? No, of course not. But I do have to wonder if a steady drumbeat of grumbling, pleading, reasoning (along with a healthy dash of incoherent ravings if for no other reason than they're fun) can nudge things a bit this way or that.

And it's not like any of us have anything better to do anyway...

Well, apparently grumbling has worked before.



Regarding the BD release of “Apocalypse Now”-

"The new edition also delivers a widescreen version of the film on home video that Coppola says should quiet the howls of protest from “the aficionados and the purists” about the screen aspect ratio of past releases."

So, there is ALWAYS hope.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Uxi

You must have missed it when this was discussed several times already. Lucas himself says he doesn't like directing or writing... he's a visual guy. But he had a big falling out with the American Guilds in the 80's (which influenced his director's choice for Rotj) and he'll roll over dead before he uses them again (and the guild members won't be able to go on a Lucas production without consequences from the Guild)

"The Hollywood unions have been taken over by the same lawyers and accountants who took over the studios," Lucas says angrily. "When the Writers Guild was on strike, I couldn't cross the picket line in my function as a director in order to take care of American Graffiti when the studio was chopping it up. I quit the Director's Guild because the union lawyers were locked in a traditional combat with the studio lawyers. The union doesn't care about it's members. It cares about making fancy rules that sound good on paper and are totaly impractical. They said Lucasfilm was a personal credit, not a corporate credit. My name is not George Lucasfilm any more than William Fox's name was Twentieth Century-Fox. On that technicality, they sued me for $250,000. You can pollute half the Great Lakes and not get fined that much. When the DGA threatened to fine Kershner $25,000, we paid his fine. I consider it extortion. The day after I settled with the Director's Guild, the Writers Guild called up. At least their fine didn't go all into the business agents' pockets. Two-thirds went to writers."


http://books.google.com/books?id=P2P7pwHeZSkC&pg=PA139

I stand corrected. I did not know that.

[Geologist]

If any film collection sells 5 million copies over five different versions, it doesn't mean 1 million people bought all five copies. Most will buy the version that is available/on sale/received as a gift. Most don't double/triple/quadruple dip withing one format. Sure a have the OT on VHS and the OT on DVD. I have wanted to watch the PT again (only seen them once in the theaters), but find it hard to drop $30 now, knowing I will be springing for the full shebang on Blu later this year. After that, if the release the OT theatricals later in yet a new package - oh well - not interested in dropping more money to see Han shooting first - I already know it so who cares? Yes there are the die hard SW fans out there who have collected every iteration, toy, comic, etc - but the majority of fans are not that extreme and will be happy with what George releases. Would I buy a 3D version of SW? Not if the original films, but if he started remaking the entire story on (which could be done in 4-5 episodic films) in 3D then yeah it might be worth it. Oh and that is what - 10 years into the future?

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Jay444

If I recall correctly, Luke refuses to fight at one point and tosses his lightsaber to Vader. I think I read that somewhere. Not 100% sure though.

It's in the novelization. Luke was indeed refusing to fight him. IIRC, he rolled the lightsaber to him on the floor before Vader goes in there looking for him. It was probably filmed... hopefully we'll get to see it, preferably edited back in.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by Uxi

It's in the novelization. Luke was indeed refusing to fight him. IIRC, he rolled the lightsaber to him on the floor before Vader goes in there looking for him. It was probably filmed... hopefully we'll get to see it, preferably edited back in.

I may be misremembering... but I don't think so.

Yes, this was filmed (and cut). When Luke finally goes nuts, he uses the Force to grab the saber back from Vader. During the editing process, they eliminated this, making it seem like Luke had the saber all along. (Except for that shot that has it with Vader, which is now a random flub in the movie.)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Listen, no other film maker would have ever let those DVDs in 04 come out with the terrible color issues because they are informed.

Theatrical screenings of the originals recently show that the colors are more accurate than you think.

I find it hard to believe that not one of them looked at the 'pink lightsaber' in Empire and thought: "Ya know what? That doesn't look right...." Most guys, would have said: Wait a sec, why is Hoth blue? Shouldn't we tell George? No, these guys understood they had a deadline to meet and money to make. Classic.

Lucas was knee deep in production of Revenge of the Sith, I find it unlikely he even saw the DVDs, even if he did it was probably clips here and there: not the entire thing. Like many directors/producers he had reps supervising it: James Camerson's discs are often supervised by Van Ling. As it was, the discs were processed in very little time to meet a deadline. Since the Blus have more time, the errors you mention may very well be fixed.

[Indyjones]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I dunno, Lucas has surrounded himself with 'yes' men who do nothing but agree with him. Once he has an idea in his head, they are not going to try to do anything to sway him. For example, had Lucas been smart he would have hired a script writer to WRITE the screenplays for the PT.

Lucas DID approach writers to script the PT and the ones he wanted either didn't want to do it or couldn't do it. Kasden and Darabont were among those. When Lucas does bring someone in, they end up butchering his story, with Kasden being the exception to that. It happened on Graffiti and Empire, which is one of the reasons Lucas ends up doing a good chink of it, if not all of it, himself.

[kenkraly2004]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Theatrical screenings of the originals recently show that the colors are more accurate than you think.



Lucas was knee deep in production of Revenge of the Sith, I find it unlikely he even saw the DVDs, even if he did it was probably clips here and there: not the entire thing. Like many directors/producers he had reps supervising it: James Camerson's discs are often supervised by Van Ling. As it was, the discs were processed in very little time to meet a deadline. Since the Blus have more time, the errors you mention may very well be fixed.

Agreed PeterTHX.