Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[shelldweller]

What would you think if John Williams rescored "a new hope" for the blurays and future releases. There are long passages without any music at all and the "imperial march" in E4 theme could really help binding the movies together.

Most importantly the recording technology has become much better by now...
You can hear a difference between the music of E4 and the five other Episodes qualitywise.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

I suppose I am indifferent to Jar Jar. Don't love him or hate him. As an integral part of Episode I, a film I happen to think is the best made of the PT, I personally have grown to respect his character in the grand scheme of Star Wars things.

I think a lot of the hate thrown at Jar Jar are people jumping on the bandwagon more than anything else. Don't underestimate the power of mob mentality and a perceived majority. After all, anyone who dares like something that a vocal group does not usually gets publicly flogged by said group.

This.

Hell, I actually appreciate certain parts of his 'performance' in Phantom Menace. During the quiet moments there's actual nuance there, like when he tilts his eyes towards Boss Nass and laughs nervously when asking Qui-Gon for help. And some of the goofy humour gets a smile from me too; I love that bit where he makes the universal 'cut the engine' sign when he gets his hand caught in the pod racer engine.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by tilapiah6

He was also decent in The Butterfly Effect.

Yet he still hasn't seen the benefit from erasing himself from existence.

On the George Lucas alterations of the theatrical OT. The American Film Institute should have stuck a preservation orders on them while they could. Imagine if GL had to submit planning applications for every tweak. He would have giving up in the end. In fact the AFI should require an application for all alterations after a film has been released theatrically and those requests should go before an impartial panel (i.e. Star Wars fans).

I can't knock my house down and build a rocket launch pad even if I own it without the Council's permission. Film should be the same.

Only changes to a property fitting it's original appearance are allowed. Sympathetic repair and upkeep is allowed as long as the original intention is preserved. Inserting CGI Jabba's will be vetoed....

Disco music added to the soundtrack will be allowed....

[shelldweller]

@chip75:

Now that´s just ridiculous!
In other words, artists would have to ask for permission to work on their own artwork. Now, Really!? Lucas fought hard to gain creative freedom and independence from the industry... why can´t you just respect that?


If the movies (in their finished version) aren´t to your taste just don´t watch them!
If you think you can do better, make movies of your own!
Nobody who doesn´t like Star Wars is forced to watch it!!!

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Now that´s just ridiculous!
In other words, artists would have to ask for permission to work on their own artwork. Now, Really!? Lucas fought hard to gain creative freedom and independence from the industry... why can´t you just respect that?

If the movies (in their finished version) aren´t to your taste just don´t watch them! If you think you can do better, make movies of your own!
Nobody who doesn´t like Star Wars is forced to watch it!!!

It's too bad it doesn't turn out that way. According to some these are the rules

1. Lucas has no right no make changes to his movies
2. They are allowed to watch crappy fan edit of the movies on the Internet (which is changing the movies that in rule number one the creator is not allowed to do)
3. Lucas does not own in any way, shape or form Star Wars
4. They own Star Wars since they have been in adoration in front of it for years
5. Lucas will never make them happy because they have impossible expectations
6. They will continue to complaint and call him a d@uche even after he does everything they want him to do

It's what we call the Internet fanboy rules where only they have the rights and no one else as

[shelldweller]

@ P@t_Mtl:
Ah OK, I see. I didn´t know these rules!

And I was wondering for over ten years now where all the Lucas and Star Wars bashing was coming from all of a sudden ...

[dib]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

It's too bad it doesn't turn out that way. According to some these are the rules

1. Lucas has no right no make changes to his movies
2. They are allowed to watch crappy fan edit of the movies on the Internet (which is changing the movies that in rule number one the creator is not allowed to do)
3. Lucas does not own in any way, shape or form Star Wars
4. They own Star Wars since they have been in adoration in front of it for years
5. Lucas will never make them happy because they have impossible expectations
6. They will continue to complaint and call him a d@uche even after he does everything they want him to do

It's what we call the Internet fanboy rules where only they have the rights and no one else as

That sounds about right. I like the originals but I am also interested in what he thinks should have been or has changed in his new edits. I suppose the worse thing about the edits is when they just don't look right, but its still interesting and not enough to really detract from the story.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

@ P@t_Mtl:
Ah OK, I see. I didn´t know these rules!

And I was wondering for over ten years now where all the Lucas and Star Wars bashing was coming from all of a sudden ...

It goes back to before that.

The hatred started in 1996-97 when Lucas dared to make changes to the originals and release the special editions. From that moment some started foaming at the mouth like some sort of lunatics. They just did not pick up on the fact that Lucas was making changes to three movies and not murdering their mothers but I am going off subject

From that moment on Lucas became the devil, Hitler, a rapist....I am sure there are a lot more that can be said but you get the picture. The prequels never and I repeat never stood a chance of being liked by them from that moment. They can say that they are horrible movies and that is why they do not like them but the truth is very different. Their hatred of Lucas went so deep that even if the prequels were the greatest movie in the history of the world, they would have hated them.

It's a no win scenario now for Lucas. After more then a decade of them hating him, they just hate for the sake of hating. No matter what he does from now on they will never be happy. I swear to you, even if he was to release the originals on Blu-ray, just like they want, the next day they would flood the forums with post about how the colors are wrong, the sound is wrong, it wasn't like that when I saw it in theaters in 1977 when I was 6 years old.....Never mind that most people can't recall what they did last week but they remember clearly in their mind how a scene was in a theater in 1977 when they were 6 He can't win now, for them he will always be the devil. I suppose it give's them something to do, me I just think it's not a very good hobby but to each is own.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

It's too bad it doesn't turn out that way. According to some these are the rules

1. Lucas has no right no make changes to his movies
2. They are allowed to watch crappy fan edit of the movies on the Internet (which is changing the movies that in rule number one the creator is not allowed to do)
3. Lucas does not own in any way, shape or form Star Wars
4. They own Star Wars since they have been in adoration in front of it for years
5. Lucas will never make them happy because they have impossible expectations
6. They will continue to complaint and call him a d@uche even after he does everything they want him to do

It's what we call the Internet fanboy rules where only they have the rights and no one else as

Unfortunatly that does seem to be the mentality amongst some of the fandom.

As for the question about changes that I personally didn't care for?

There's only one that really bugs me. And that's the change in Empire Strikes Back to Luke's dialogue on Dagobah after R2-D2 escapes from the Swamp Monster. The original "You're lucky you don't taste very good" is preferred to the changed "You're lucky you got out of there." Outside of that, I'm pretty happy with most of the changes. I do wish he wouldn't have knuckled under in regard to the absurd hatred of Jar Jar.

[shelldweller]

I only wish an official statement would be given on whether further enhancements will be made for blu-ray or not... I remember Lucas or Lucasfilm a little more open in that respect. I can´t really imagine that the 1997/2004 editions will be the ones put onto blu-ray and into cinemas in the coming years.
On the other hand, the day they announce further effect-improvement the internet crowd and so called fans will start the bashing again.

Now imagine Han would really shoot first in the new editions (we never really saw him shooting first since in the original theatrical release we only see a sudden smoke-cloud and Greedo collapsing) what would be so unbearable for the SE haters? I just don´t get it!

[Monolithium]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

From that moment on Lucas became the devil, Hitler, a rapist....I am sure there are a lot more that can be said but you get the picture. The prequels never and I repeat never stood a chance of being liked by them from that moment. They can say that they are horrible movies and that is why they do not like them but the truth is very different. Their hatred of Lucas went so deep that even if the prequels were the greatest movie in the history of the world, they would have hated them.

So if the Haters look past the hate they will see what the Lovers love?

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Beast

Unfortunatly that does seem to be the mentality amongst some of the fandom.

As for the question about changes that I personally didn't care for?

There's only one that really bugs me. And that's the change in Empire Strikes Back to Luke's dialogue on Dagobah after R2-D2 escapes from the Swamp Monster. The original "You're lucky you don't taste very good" is preferred to the changed "You're lucky you got out of there." Outside of that, I'm pretty happy with most of the changes.

The only change that bother's me the most (but I keep it healthy and don't go on a lunatic fringe about it ) is Han & Greedo. That is because it changes too much the character of Han. He is a bad @ss and in a situation like that he would have no problem shooting first (I know I would ) I feel like it make the changes in him later on cause by Leia to be less of an impact. But I respect Lucas wishes to change it. He wanted the kids to see Han with more honor and no shoot first, that is alright with me. It's certaintly not causing me to lose sleep like a lot of other people it seem

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Monolithium

So if the Haters look past the hate they will see what the Lovers love?

Don't bother trying, you never will...that is the way the sabacc cards have have been played

To change the quote from Robert Duvall

"I love the taste of hate in the morning"

PS and by the way I never once said HATERS I said they hated the movie which is a very different thing. But once again context can be adjusted to fit one's need, like with the Lucas quote in front of Congress

[IndefinentBlu]

Lucas already made changes to the OT, so what changes can we expect if any from the PT??

I would think if he wanted to put general grevious in EP2 he would put him in at the end when Dooku meets Sidious.

I would also think Lucas may try to change Anakin's lightsaber color to red.

Sansweet said that these are not the ultimate editions that they keep finding new stuff,how may scenes did they film for each movie??

I'm afraid that another set will come out in 2017 when ROTJ releases in 3d.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

It goes back to before that.

The hatred started in 1996-97 when Lucas dared to make changes to the originals and release the special editions. From that moment some started foaming at the mouth like some sort of lunatics. They just did not pick up on the fact that Lucas was making changes to three movies and not murdering their mothers but I am going off subject

From that moment on Lucas became the devil, Hitler, a rapist....I am sure there are a lot more that can be said but you get the picture. The prequels never and I repeat never stood a chance of being liked by them from that moment. They can say that they are horrible movies and that is why they do not like them but the truth is very different. Their hatred of Lucas went so deep that even if the prequels were the greatest movie in the history of the world, they would have hated them.

It's a no win scenario now for Lucas. After more then a decade of them hating him, they just hate for the sake of hating. No matter what he does from now on they will never be happy. I swear to you, even if he was to release the originals on Blu-ray, just like they want, the next day they would flood the forums with post about how the colors are wrong, the sound is wrong, it wasn't like that when I saw it in theaters in 1977 when I was 6 years old.....Never mind that most people can't recall what they did last week but they remember clearly in their mind how a scene was in a theater in 1977 when they were 6 He can't win now, for them he will always be the devil. I suppose it give's them something to do, me I just think it's not a very good hobby but to each is own.

Very well put! Unfortunately I think you´re right.
I remember watching the Special Editions in cinemas back in 1997 and everybody loved them cheering and clapping! The whole hate-machine started shortly after that...

[Beast]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

The only change that bother's me the most (but I keep it healthy and don't go on a lunatic fringe about it ) is Han & Greedo. That is because it changes too much the character of Han. He is a bad @ss and in a situation like that he would have no problem shooting first (I know I would ) I feel like it make the changes in him later on cause by Leia to be less of an impact. But I respect Lucas wishes to change it. He wanted the kids to see Han with more honor and no shoot first, that is alright with me. It's certaintly not causing me to lose sleep like a lot of other people it seem

Same here. I don't care for the changed line in Empire, but I don't want Lucas' head on a pike over it. Heh.

I can see your point on the Han/Greedo scene, but it doesn't really bug me all that much. I do think the DVD version handles the change a lot better than the theatrical Special Edition by shifting Han a bit and making the shots almost simultaneous. Greedo always seemed like an incompatent minion anyway, ever since 1977. Given his compound fly eyes and sucker fingers, his shot being off target doesn't really seem illogical.

Besides, whether he shoots first or not.... it doesn't really change Han's character. His character arc is still intact, since he's still the same smuggler with no real loyalties other than the pay regardless of whether Greedo gets off a shot or not. That's not really changed at all.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

I would also think Lucas may try to change Anakin's lightsaber color to red.

Why? Then it wouldn't make sense given that it's gets passed down to Luke in ANH.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

@chip75:

Now that´s just ridiculous!
In other words, artists would have to ask for permission to work on their own artwork. Now, Really!? Lucas fought hard to gain creative freedom and independence from the industry... why can´t you just respect that?


If the movies (in their finished version) aren´t to your taste just don´t watch them!
If you think you can do better, make movies of your own!
Nobody who doesn´t like Star Wars is forced to watch it!!!

My tongue was firmly in cheek (as it always is). Movies are made through a committee these days anyways why should alterations be different? Are you saying if you buy a painting that the artist can come in to your home and alter it after take ownership of it? Even if you don't like the alterations? Even if it makes it worse?

Once a film hits the theatre it belongs to the public as much as the creators. I have a huge repect for George Lucas and I admire all his acheivements. He can do all he wants to the SE's but he can't change history, he sould embrace it. Just as much as I should embrace his endeavours to find happiness in his alterations. Sometimes it's a tightrope balancing act where I make it to the other side. Sometimes I fall off and bang my head.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Beast

Why? Then it wouldn't make sense given that it's gets passed down to Luke in ANH.

Not if he changes it in ANH.


(Kidding of course, no need to respond to this to tell me how stupid it would be and how I'm not a "true" fan, etc. etc.)

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Beast

Why? Then it wouldn't make sense given that it's gets passed down to Luke in ANH.

The change in color would make no sense I agree. Why would Anakin have a red saber on Mustafar for his battle with Obiwan? If that was to be change, then Obiwan pick's up the saber at the end of episode 3 and it's red and then Luke's open's it up in episode four and it's now blue Unless we now go back and change the color of the saber in the original and make it red until Luke's make's his own in episode 6