Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[danny_boy]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Hell yeah! That's the kind of bonus material I'd love to see included!



That's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This way I'll be able to see them before October!!!
Can't wait!



Sure, why not?



Well, some people just don't want to listen.

It's not as simple as comparing the numbers of lines/pixels to each other.

Right on!
There needs to be a distinction made between the 35mm camera negative which has 4k resolution(but which is not projected and nobody ever sees it) and the 35 mm release prints seen in cinemas which have a resolution of approx 700-800 lpph which is roughly the equivalent of digital 720p!

Check out this comparison made as far back as 1999 when the phantom menace was released:

So how is the quality of the digital image? During a press conference held on June 17 at the AMC Burbank 14 multiplex, a short clip was shown in a split screen: Half the image was from a new, high-quality film print, and the other half was from the digital "print." Once the two images were manually synchronized, the difference was remarkably clear: The digital image was much sharper, with much better color fidelity than the film print. For example, the Jedi council room has large windows through which the sky is visible. In the digital image, the sky and clouds were clearly delineated, but they were blurred into a bluish blob on the film side of the screen. Rick McCallum, one of the producers of The Phantom Menace and a press-conference panelist, said the digital version is a much more accurate representation of what they shot than the film version.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/content...wntown-burbank

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

The rest is copyrights and release rights. He as the right to release his movies in the form that he want's them. Sorry if this make's you mad but it's still the truth. The movies belong to him, he made them, he use his money to make them and he release them in theaters. The fact that me and you paied a lot of our money to see them does not make us owners of these movies, they belong to him. Now your rights as a customer is to not buy what he is offering you, that I am with you. If you hate the special edition (I don't understand exactly why you would) but you have every right to dislike them, do not buy them. If enough people do not buy them the way he want's to release them, that might make him see the error of his ways, he is a business man afterall. The trouble is, you are out of luck, cause the reality is, they will sell and in big numbers. First by fans like me (who know very well there was once a different version of them) but do not mind the special editions, in fact I enjoy them. Second by millions of other not as crazy fans who just don't care or don't even know the difference. Me and you and a lot of other people here know this difference but for millions of other people, they are just movies, plain in simple and if they were to read our comments here would be going They would say "what a bunch of losers arguing like this over movies" because for them they are just that, movies. They don't have the passion about them like we do here. They don't care who shot first, what color was the lightsaber in 1977 and what scene was where at what time. The reality is these buyers out number us 10 to 1 and they will buy these sets of Star Wars in great numbers. That is the reality.

I'll admit, you do make some good points, and yes, it may be his right to change them and suppress them, but just because there's no legal action against it doesn't make it right. And whether he ever wants to admit it or not, his whole proprietary attitude towards his films is tragically misguided. As for the people who don't care or might be unaware of what version they're getting, a lot of them were probably born in the early to mid 90's and simply just don't have a proper frame of reference in appreciation for the original trilogy.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

They will use the old "VHS & Laserdisc argument" as you say as long as everyone keep saying he is changing history. The originals are preserve by the Library of Congress. They are not being destroyed. The original movie will be preserve, what make's you mad is the fact that he won't release them in the new Blu-ray format. I am not arguing with the fact that it's right for him to do so, I am only arguing the facts you are presenting. This "he is changing history" is not making sense when the original prints are in fact being preserve by a very safe source. These original version will always be around long after me, you and everyone else is dust in the ground.

But didn't Lucas say at one point that he wanted the original versions to disappear from history and for people to only remember the special editions 100 years from now? Also from what I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, he actually tried to take away the print of the original version from the Library of Congress and replace it with one of the special edition but they basically told him to piss off.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

But didn't Lucas say at one point that he wanted the original versions to disappear from history and for people to only remember the special editions 100 years from now? Also from what I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, he actually tried to take away the print of the original version from the Library of Congress and replace it with one of the special edition but they basically told him to piss off.

He may very well want to but doing it is another piece of business. He as rights to the movies when it come's to releasing them in whatever format he would like them to be seen but he can't control what is in The Library of Congress. He can ask them to turn it over but they can tell him to go play in the huge giant sandbox he as on Tatooine Lucas problems is that he quickly start feeling embarass with things he as done in the past and as now made correction on them. Look at his attitude with the infamous Christmas Special. He's embarass now with it, feel it was a huge mistake doing it and wish he could just make it go away. Trouble for him is he work he a world where his creation are done on film and copies can be found. All he can do is just revert back to his rights to release or not release them as he wish.

Again I am not debating anyone on if he is right or wrong in doing it. My opinion, he is wrong but I will respect his rights to release them as he wish them to be seen and I won't call him names on the Internet.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

I'll admit, you do make some good points, and yes, it may be his right to change them and suppress them, but just because there's no legal action against it doesn't make it right. And whether he ever wants to admit it or not, his whole proprietary attitude towards his films is tragically misguided. As for the people who don't care or might be unaware of what version they're getting, a lot of them were probably born in the early to mid 90's and simply just don't have a proper frame of reference in appreciation for the original trilogy.

Very good points.

I'd also like to point out the irony of using the supposed ignorance of a good portion of the general public as a defense for what Lucas is doing. I find that very ironic on a site like this, considering the amount of complaints in other discussions over the course of time around here about how lack of knowledge and gross misconceptions negatively effect Blu-Ray and HD understanding and adoption.

Not that I'm picking on P@t_Mtl, but a few of the Lucas defenders have made essentially that same point in the past, and I just find it ironic how lack of knowledge and understanding in one case is considered a good thing, but it's considered bad in other cases.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

But didn't Lucas say at one point that he wanted the original versions to disappear from history and for people to only remember the special editions 100 years from now?

Which would be a futile effort anyway. In addition to the fact that the Library of Congress rejected his request, as I stated in a previous post in the future (i.e. 100 years from now) the people who will likely be most interested in the movies will be those more along the lines of film enthusiasts/historians. You know, the kind of people who have more than a casual interest in films/movies, and often are interested not only in the films themselves, but the history surrounding them, etc. And as such, these people will know and be interested in the different versions of the film, and probably to some extent the contraversy surrounding them. How much access they will have to the original versions of the movies come that time is debatable, but they will at minumum have plenty of documentation of the fact that they were changed and specifically what changes were made. Thanks to the internet, that information isn't going anywhere.

I doubt that in a 100 years Star Wars will have any kind of mainstream appeal. If it does, it will be because new content is still being produced (whether it be a continuation of the existing stories or flat out remakes), and it will be the newer stuff that people will be interested in. Average 'mainstream' audiences 100 years from now probably aren't going to be casually watching the original SW films in large numbers.

So, this idea that everyone will only know and care about his 'perfect versions' and not remember the originals is nothing more than a fantasy that will never come true.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Very good points.

I'd also like to point out the irony of using the supposed ignorance of a good portion of the general public as a defense for what Lucas is doing. I find that very ironic on a site like this, considering the amount of complaints in other discussions over the course of time around here about how lack of knowledge and gross misconceptions negatively effect Blu-Ray and HD understanding and adoption.

Not that I'm picking on P@t_Mtl, but a few of the Lucas defenders have made essentially that same point in the past, and I just find it ironic how lack of knowledge and understanding in one case is considered a good thing, but it's considered bad in other cases.

I would make the same arguement for any director out there, not just for Lucas by the way. Rights are rights and cannot be remove just because they don't fit into what we want. They don't work in this fashion. Like I said, my opinion is that he is wrong but it's still is rights.

As for the fact that most people won't care for the changes, mostly being applied to the younger generation...I don't quite believe it. We are extreme fans here like I said. What we think, say or do does not really apply to the casual movie fans out in the real world. There will be millions of just ordinary people who enjoy watching Star Wars (some old enough to remember the originals and seeing them in theaters) and just won't care about the changes. Like I said most of them would probably laugh so much at seeing us talk about this stuff and wonder if we actually have lives They are just people who watch movies here and there when they actually might have nothing else to do. We are into this hobby in a much different way then they are. The biggest mistake we make is to assume all fans are at the same level that we are. It's not the case at all. Example, my mom is a fan of the original Star trek series. She as seen every episodes quite a few times over the years (she still catch them om Space). She was for sure old enough to see them back in the 60's (I was probably on her lap watching them) and she could never quote or mention details like most hard case fans of Star Trek would. She is a fan, just not a extreme fan. There are millions of them just like her for Star Wars out there.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Lucas problems is that he quickly start feeling embarass with things he as done in the past and as now made correction on them. Look at his attitude with the infamous Christmas Special. He's embarass now with it, feel it was a huge mistake doing it and wish he could just make it go away. Trouble for him is he work he a world where his creation are done on film and copies can be found. All he can do is just revert back to his rights to release or not release them as he wish.

Now you see, that's something I've never been able to understand about the man. I mean, even if some of the effects in the original film didn't fully meet his expectations, it still broke box office records, wowed audiences, garnered critical and commercial acclaim, won seven academy awards and was nominated for an additional 3 (including best picture), inspired countless filmmakers of today from Peter Jackson, Frank Darabont, James Cameron and so on, spawned an entire franchise of tie-in material, and basically changed the movie industry as we know it. And yet none of that was good enough for him apparently. If I made a movie that didn't fully meet my expectations in the end but still managed to do all those things, nothing in the world would please me more. It just seems to me like Lucas has a huge insecurity complex and instead of being proud of his own accomplishments, all he ever seems to do these days is see flaws in his old work. He's fully entitled to, but it's just very unfortunate.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Again I am not debating anyone on if he is right or wrong in doing it. My opinion, he is wrong but I will respect his rights to release them as he wish them to be seen and I won't call him names on the Internet.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. It's your opinion, but just because he has the legal right to only release the version he wants and there's nothing anybody can do about it doesn't mean I'm ever going to respect that choice, not by a long shot. Glad to see you do think he's wrong though.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Now you see, that's something I've never been able to understand about the man. I mean, even if some of the effects in the original film didn't fully meet his expectations, it still broke box office records, wowed audiences, garnered critical and commercial acclaim, won seven academy awards and was nominated for an additional 3 (including best picture), inspired countless filmmakers of today from Peter Jackson, Frank Darabont, James Cameron and so on, spawned an entire franchise of tie-in material, and basically changed the movie industry as we know it. And yet none of that was good enough for him apparently. If I made a movie that didn't fully meet my expectations in the end but still managed to do all those things, nothing in the world would please me more. It just seems to me like Lucas has a huge insecurity complex and instead of being proud of his own accomplishments, all he ever seems to do these days is see flaws in his old work. He's fully entitled to, but it's just very unfortunate.

It may well be that he does, it would certainly explain some of this stuff he does at times. He does seem like a nice guy when you seem him in interviews however. Confidence in one self however is not something that can be gain from having huge success a lot of time for certain people.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. It's your opinion, but just because he has the legal right to only release the version he wants and there's nothing anybody can do about it doesn't mean I'm ever going to respect that choice, not be a long shot. Glad to see you do think he's wrong though.

That is the problem with rights, they just can't be qualify into right or wrong, that is why it make's it hard for people sometimes to accept.

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by Kinetic_Blue

Which makes me believe it's much more than just a few weeks/months between Empire and Jedi. Luke needed a new Saber, needed a new hand (we saw it, but how much time passed?) Learn how to make a Saber, need to know where to go to get the parts and the crystals, needed to find the parts to make a Saber, so he had to sneak on to Coruscant, in to the Jedi Temple, out of the Temple, off Coruscant, find Illum, get the crystals, events of Shadows of the Empire, go to Tatooine, build the Saber... there's gotta be more that needed to be done. so yeah, more time passed than the incorrect official timeline

Scrap that part . Luke could buy all the parts except for the Adegan crystal.
He made a synthetic crystal. It took him a month in total to build the lightsaber.

(source: Offical Star Wars Fact File. Yes I'm that much of a nerd :P).

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Which would be a futile effort anyway. In addition to the fact that the Library of Congress rejected his request, as I stated in a previous post in the future (i.e. 100 years from now) the people who will likely be most interested in the movies will be those more along the lines of film enthusiasts/historians. You know, the kind of people who have more than a casual interest in films/movies, and often are interested not only in the films themselves, but the history surrounding them, etc. And as such, these people will know and be interested in the different versions of the film, and probably to some extent the contraversy surrounding them. How much access they will have to the original versions of the movies come that time is debatable, but they will at minumum have plenty of documentation of the fact that they were changed and specifically what changes were made. Thanks to the internet, that information isn't going anywhere.

I doubt that in a 100 years Star Wars will have any kind of mainstream appeal. If it does, it will be because new content is still being produced (whether it be a continuation of the existing stories or flat out remakes), and it will be the newer stuff that people will be interested in. Average 'mainstream' audiences 100 years from now probably aren't going to be casually watching the original SW films in large numbers.

So, this idea that everyone will only know and care about his 'perfect versions' and not remember the originals is nothing more than a fantasy that will never come true.

All good points. Lucas should enjoy the fact that he made a wonderful saga and just be happy with it like everyone else is (or was).

Whether if it's his right or not, even if it's "his (most recent) vision" (people parrot this like it's a Get Out of Jail Free card), doesn't mean people have to accept it. He changed some major scenes around in the films, did he honestly think people wouldn't complain? It's our right to call him out on bad decision-making, despite his apologists claiming he has immunity from criticism because it's his movie or his right. People deserve to see one the original Star Wars movies and a collection without it is incomplete imo.

Lucas was speaking from his heart to the fans when Anakin said, "You're either with me or you're my enemy." LOL

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

I'll admit, you do make some good points, and yes, it may be his right to change them and suppress them, but just because there's no legal action against it doesn't make it right. And whether he ever wants to admit it or not, his whole proprietary attitude towards his films is tragically misguided. As for the people who don't care or might be unaware of what version they're getting, a lot of them were probably born in the early to mid 90's and simply just don't have a proper frame of reference in appreciation for the original trilogy.



But didn't Lucas say at one point that he wanted the original versions to disappear from history and for people to only remember the special editions 100 years from now? Also from what I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, he actually tried to take away the print of the original version from the Library of Congress and replace it with one of the special edition but they basically told him to piss off.

OK, does anyone actually know the reason why the original UOT was released only as a "Special Feature: on the DVD's a few years ago?
It is the same reason why they will never be on a set by themselves.

Special Features are "free."
Added bonus content that "cannot" be charged for. (At least that is how it is supposed to be.)
Lucas' ex-wife is entitled to royalties from ONLY the UOT. That is why you will NEVER see them on shelves by themselves. Since they are a "Special Feature" and "cannot" be charged for, he makes no profit from them, thus nothing goes to his ex-wife.

The reason i have quotes around some of the words is because we all know stores increase the price for special features and added disks.
They are only given a Suggested Price to sell at, they can charge whatever they want to make a profit.

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

All good points. Lucas should enjoy the fact that he made a wonderful saga and just be happy with it like everyone else is (or was).

Whether if it's his right or not, even if it's "his (most recent) vision" (people parrot this like it's a Get Out of Jail Free card), doesn't mean people have to accept it. He changed some major scenes around in the films, did he honestly think people wouldn't complain? It's our right to call him out on bad decision-making, despite his apologists claiming he has immunity from criticism because it's his movie or his right. People deserve to see one the original Star Wars movies and a collection without it is incomplete imo.

Lucas was speaking from his heart to the fans when Anakin said, "You're either with me or you're my enemy." LOL

So at what point does he have to start bending to your will? Is he allowed to edit the film? Or does he just have to show it to you as it was shot. Shit! Someone noticed an error in the theatrical release film, but I can't change it because people like it too much.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Aquel

Scrap that part . Luke could buy all the parts except for the Adegan crystal.
He made a synthetic crystal. It took him a month in total to build the lightsaber.

(source: Offical Star Wars Fact File. Yes I'm that much of a nerd :P).

And you think Palpatine doesn't keep a list somewhere of who has said parts, or confiscated all the parts so that a Jedi could easily buy a LightSaber?
Palpatine is not a stupid person, he never (except once) overlooked anything.

In fact, that one thing that he did overlook was Anakin's love for Padme'.
If Palpatine had used a different personother than Anakin to tempt Luke to the Dark Side with Luke would've turned as well... It was only Luke's love for his father and Anakn's love for Padme and her last little bit of her that made him turn back.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Whether if it's his right or not, even if it's "his (most recent) vision" (people parrot this like it's a Get Out of Jail Free card), doesn't mean people have to accept it. He changed some major scenes around in the films, did he honestly think people wouldn't complain? It's our right to call him out on bad decision-making, despite his apologists claiming he has immunity from criticism because it's his movie or his right. People deserve to see one the original Star Wars movies and a collection without it is incomplete imo.

Gawd, how many friggin' times are you guys going to beat this dead, decomposed horse?

PS: Face it, if he had released what is now the SE in 1977 nobody would have been the wiser and the fanboys would find something else to complain about.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Kinetic_Blue

OK, does anyone actually know the reason why the original UOT was released only as a "Special Feature: on the DVD's a few years ago?
It is the same reason why they will never be on a set by themselves.

Special Features are "free."
Added bonus content that "cannot" be charged for. (At least that is how it is supposed to be.)
Lucas' ex-wife is entitled to royalties from ONLY the UOT. That is why you will NEVER see them on shelves by themselves. Since they are a "Special Feature" and "cannot" be charged for, he makes no profit from them, thus nothing goes to his ex-wife.

The reason i have quotes around some of the words is because we all know stores increase the price for special features and added disks.
They are only given a Suggested Price to sell at, they can charge whatever they want to make a profit.

We're not necessarily asking him to release them by themselves.... we just want them properly cleaned up and mastered in high def and released on Blu-Ray. I don't care if they are billed as 'bonus features' and come in a package with the newest edition of the movies being billed as the main content. I just want to get them released in as proper of a manner as possible.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by binarymelon

So at what point does he have to start bending to your will? Is he allowed to edit the film? Or does he just have to show it to you as it was shot. Shit! Someone noticed an error in the theatrical release film, but I can't change it because people like it too much.

I don't care if he edits it... He can continue to spit all over the OT with more crap from the PT if he wants, I just want the original movies that weren't screwed with given equal treatment with the quality of picture and sound.

The main point of my post was how Lucas (and his fans) believes he is immune from criticism. Look... if you act like an idiot, be prepared to be called out on it. Lucas probably just took this whole thing personal and is protecting his ego. The changes were expensive and he probably felt proud of them.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Kinetic_Blue

OK, does anyone actually know the reason why the original UOT was released only as a "Special Feature: on the DVD's a few years ago?
It is the same reason why they will never be on a set by themselves.

Special Features are "free."
Added bonus content that "cannot" be charged for. (At least that is how it is supposed to be.)
Lucas' ex-wife is entitled to royalties from ONLY the UOT. That is why you will NEVER see them on shelves by themselves. Since they are a "Special Feature" and "cannot" be charged for, he makes no profit from them, thus nothing goes to his ex-wife.

The reason i have quotes around some of the words is because we all know stores increase the price for special features and added disks.
They are only given a Suggested Price to sell at, they can charge whatever they want to make a profit.

I know Marcia Lucas edited the OT and made out quite well on the divorce settlement in 1983 (also had some GREAT ideas on a few key moments of the script). However, it is really unclear if she gets anything out of Star Wars in any form. Telling though, is a comment from Lucas that he fired the original editor and then ended up editing ANH by himself which is very much not true. Hmm, seems like something a site like the Smoking Gun should look into...lol

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

We're not necessarily asking him to release them by themselves.... we just want them properly cleaned up and mastered in high def and released on Blu-Ray. I don't care if they are billed as 'bonus features' and come in a package with the newest edition of the movies being billed as the main content. I just want to get them released in as proper of a manner as possible.

They are still available on DVD.
BluRay Players upconvert.
I'm failing to see the main point.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

The main point of my post was how Lucas (and his fans) believes he is immune from criticism. Look... if you act like an idiot, be prepared to be called out on it. Lucas probably just took this whole thing personal and is protecting his ego. The changes were expensive and he probably felt proud of them.

Excellent point!

If someone wants to hang out on a street corner with a pair of underwear on their head, dancing around, and call it performance art, that's fine, they have the right to do so (provided they aren't breaking any laws in the process of being on that corner). And perhaps some people will appreciate this form of art. But, be prepared for plenty of people to look and point and say, "Hey! Look at the dancing idiot with the underwear on his head!!!"

And in many ways, going back and adding new special effects to a 20+ year old movie (especially a movie that so many people are familiar with in it's original form and has a significant cultural significance), on more than one occasion no less, comes across to many people as being just as silly and ludicris as the guy dancing around with underwear on his head.

Rarely are films changed years after the fact. And in the cases where they are, it's even far more rare to go and use modern special effects to 'add' to the movie. Usually in those cases, it's just something along the lines of a director's cut using existing footage, effects, and content that were all created when the film was originally in production. And even then, the original version is still typically made available in addition to whatever the new cut is.

On many, many levels, Lucas has done things that are worthy of the scrunity he has faced. He may have the right to do those things (just as someone may have the right to dance around with underwear on their head), but he is not immune to criticism.