Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Richard Edlund, visual effects supervisor at ILM at the time, in a 1980 interview with Cinefex, calls the original Star Wars FX 30% of what they wanted to do. THIRTY percent!

From the get go they've always been dissatisfied with what they did. Why can't you understand that?

Folks, the key point here is "they've always been dissatisfied with what they did", as Lucas wasn't behind every single SE change. Edlund and Dennis Muren were two guys at the ground floor of the effects revolution ushered in by Star Wars, but they knew how compromised that original work was. Years later they're two of the biggest advocates of CG you will ever find, and Muren was only too happy to change the stuff that bugged him for the SEs.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by stringer

Looks like the release date has been change to September 16, 2011

Yeah, 11 days sooner! Awesome news! I just checked, and acording to all these sites, this seems "official":


http://www.starwars.com/themovies/sa...ray/index.html

http://www.thehdroom.com/news/Star-W...er-a-Week/8158

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Comp...1440067&sr=8-1

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Again with the UOT...
Is it that graet to be able to see through the cockpit of the Snowspeeders?
I can see that the copy-boxes around the Tie-Fighters are amazing, but do you really need to see the smudge under Luke´s Landspeeder?

That's why, what so many of us would like, would be the Original Trilogy Edits, with the special effects fixed/enhanced.

No story changes, no new characters, no new bloody scenes, but fix some of the already existing effects.

Had Lucas done that, and not gone the extra step to change the films in the way he did, there would not be nearly so much divide over them. Even things like the background of Bespin being redone - so they are windows and not a blank white wall - is cool.

It's called enhancement of what is already there, not adding things that weren't there to begin with (characters) with technology that wasn't (and still really isn't) able to do so convincingly when pasting them over film done in the 70's and 80's.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That's why, what so many of us would like, would be the Original Trilogy Edits, with the special effects fixed/enhanced.

No story changes, no new characters, no new bloody scenes, but fix some of the already existing effects.

Had Lucas done that, and not gone the extra step to change the films in the way he did, there would not be nearly so much divide over them. Even things like the background of Bespin being redone - so they are windows and not a blank white wall - is cool.

It's called enhancement of what is already there, not adding things that weren't there to begin with (characters) with technology that wasn't (and still really isn't) able to do so convincingly when pasting them over film done in the 70's and 80's.

I agree with all this. Some of the changes are very appropriate, the Emperor in ESB, for example. I simply prefer the UOT because I'd rather see no changes than the changes that Lucas ended up making. ANH Jabba, Han/Greedo, Jedi Rocks, etc. all make the OT worse than it used to be. Besides, the technological shortcomings add to its charm.

[Uxi]

Have to admit I did laugh at "suppression of classic movies" quip. Lucas' thugs who are former federal agents fired for brutality have been doing their round ups again, I see.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That's why, what so many of us would like, would be the Original Trilogy Edits, with the special effects fixed/enhanced.

No story changes, no new characters, no new bloody scenes, but fix some of the already existing effects.

Had Lucas done that, and not gone the extra step to change the films in the way he did, there would not be nearly so much divide over them. Even things like the background of Bespin being redone - so they are windows and not a blank white wall - is cool.

It's called enhancement of what is already there, not adding things that weren't there to begin with (characters) with technology that wasn't (and still really isn't) able to do so convincingly when pasting them over film done in the 70's and 80's.

Exactly! Give me the OT enhanced and cleaned-up, and I'll be happy. Put all of the "additions" back on the hard drives where they belong. Sadly, we'll never see this.

[Beast]

Heh. The hypocritical people who hate the changes but still ask for enhancements and tweaks are so amusing.

"I want the original versions with no changes! Except fixing all the things I don't like about the films."

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Beast

Heh. The hypocritical people who hate the changes but still ask for enhancements and tweaks are so amusing.

"I want the original versions with no changes! Except fixing all the things I don't like about the films."

Yeah. Their lines are fuzzy, to say the least. They want it the way it was in 1977, except for how it looked & sounded.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Beast

Heh. The hypocritical people who hate the changes but still ask for enhancements and tweaks are so amusing.

"I want the original versions with no changes! Except fixing all the things I don't like about the films."

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Yeah. Their lines are fuzzy, to say the least.

Nothing hypocritical about NOT wanting the story and characters changed. I can live with cleaning-up the OT, if it must be done. If I had a choice, it would be to leave them alone and not change a thing, but that's not going to happen (and neither is simply cleaning them up a bit).

[al cos.]

It's impossible to want the originals and/or a better special edition. What, is that the law now?

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Nothing hypocritical about NOT wanting the story and characters changed. I can live with cleaning-up the OT, if it must be done. If I had a choice, it would be to leave them alone and not change a thing, but that's not going to happen (and neither is simply cleaning them up a bit).

The thing is there's no difference between enhancing (not changing) special effects, cleaning up errors, working around former limitations, beefing up sound, etc, etc and actually changing effects, adding or altering scenes, etc, etc. Retouching the original is retouching the original, period. If a special effect didn't work the way GL would have liked (like the blob under the landspeeder)... Fixing that is no different than adding a scene he (for whatever reason) couldn't originally do. He now has the chance to make all six films the way he envisioned them without release deadlines looming over him. If that means fixing an effect, adding a scene or changing dialog, it's all the same. It's all altering the original.

Would it be nice to have unaltered copies on the BD release? Sure. But personally, I wouldn't actually watch them. Nostalgia is overrated. It's best off left as a memory. Right now, I want the best looking, best sounding, most cohesive saga possible. Wherher GL can deliver is another story.

[Beast]

Yeah. I bought the DVD versions with the original cuts. Never watch them though.

Just like I don't watch my Laserdisc set of the original cuts. Or the LD set of the '97 SE versions.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yeah. I bought the DVD versions with the original cuts. Never watch them though.

Just like I don't watch my Laserdisc set of the original cuts. Or the LD set of the '97 SE versions.

Same here.

I tried, and actually found it painful.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Same here.

I tried, and actually found it painful.

Raise your hand if it would bother you if Lucas found some way to edit the Ewoks out of Return of the Jedi for the blu-ray release.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Raise your hand if it would bother you if Lucas found some way to edit the Ewoks out of Return of the Jedi for the blu-ray release.

I would love it... Along with all the Muppets from Jabba's Palace... And Jar-Jar Binks.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

The thing is there's no difference between enhancing (not changing) special effects, cleaning up errors, working around former limitations, beefing up sound, etc, etc and actually changing effects, adding or altering scenes, etc, etc. Retouching the original is retouching the original, period. If a special effect didn't work the way GL would have liked (like the blob under the landspeeder)... Fixing that is no different than adding a scene he (for whatever reason) couldn't originally do. He now has the chance to make all six films the way he envisioned them without release deadlines looming over him. If that means fixing an effect, adding a scene or changing dialog, it's all the same. It's all altering the original.

Would it be nice to have unaltered copies on the BD release? Sure. But personally, I wouldn't actually watch them. Nostalgia is overrated. It's best off left as memories. Right now, I want the best looking, best sounding, most cohesive saga possible. Wherher GL can deliver is another story.

To me, a changed/added scene is way different than cleaning up picture or enhancing the sound. Upgrading the OT audio to 6.1 lossless is welcomed, however adding weird, out-of-place characters or changing the introduction of characters is not so good unless it's done tastefully.

I think that most SW fans who argue for the UOT do so because of the botched SE's. Lucas simply went too far with them. If those huge modifications weren't made, there'd be way less complaining. I never hear anyone gripe about new PQ or AQ, only the big stuff like Greedo or CG Jabba or Hayden at the end of Jedi...

Hell, an option to skip the new scenes would even be an improvement so we wouldn't have to do it manually.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

The thing is there's no difference between enhancing (not changing) special effects, cleaning up errors, working around former limitations, beefing up sound, etc, etc and actually changing effects, adding or altering scenes, etc, etc. Retouching the original is retouching the original, period. If a special effect didn't work the way GL would have liked (like the blob under the landspeeder)... Fixing that is no different than adding a scene he (for whatever reason) couldn't originally do. He now has the chance to make all six films the way he envisioned them without release deadlines looming over him. If that means fixing an effect, adding a scene or changing dialog, it's all the same. It's all altering the original.

Would it be nice to have unaltered copies on the BD release? Sure. But personally, I wouldn't actually watch them. Nostalgia is overrated. It's best off left as a memory. Right now, I want the best looking, best sounding, most cohesive saga possible. Wherher GL can deliver is another story.

Well, "the thing is", there is a HUGE difference between cleaning-up some effects versus changing the story and adding useless characters and crap just because he can.

But, hey, it's my opinion and it won't be changed. It's also the last I'll say on it, as I can't believe I allowed myself to be dragged down into an internet SW fanboy argument.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

To me, a changed/added scene is way different than cleaning up picture or enhancing the sound. Upgrading the OT audio to 6.1 lossless is welcomed, however adding weird, out-of-place characters or changing the introduction of characters is not so good.

I think that most SW fans who argue for the UOT do so because of the botched SE's. Lucas simply went too far with them. If those huge modifications weren't made, there'd be way less complaining. I never hear anyone gripe about new PQ or AQ, only the big stuff like Greedo or CG Jabba or Hayden at the end of Jedi...

Hell, an option to skip the new scenes would even be an improvement so we wouldn't have to do it manually.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Because to me, one change opens the floodgate. Altering anything (even if it's just to fix something) is altering it. Brining something up-to-date is bringing it up-to-date. Making it the way the director wanted it is making it the way he wanted it, regardless of whether it's a fixed blob under a landspeeder, a 7.1 mix or reintroducing a character the way he actually wanted him introduced. The principle is all the same... Altering an old work in order to make it more the way it was either intended to be or as good as it can be at this time.

There are people who hate the PT because it doesn't always jive properly with the OT. Maybe GL has simply decided the problem is with the OT, not the PT? After all, he wasn't (technologically or financially) capable of creating the OT the way he wanted it. People shouldn't get upset that the technically inferior films are the ones (mostly) being altered. I wonder if all the PT haters would take issue if GL made the PT Yoda a puppet?

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Well, "the thing is", there is a HUGE difference between cleaning-up some effects versus changing the story and adding useless characters and crap just because he can.

But, hey, it's my opinion and it won't be changed. It's also the last I'll say on it, as I can't believe I allowed myself to be dragged down into an internet SW fanboy argument.

No, there isn't a difference. Altering something is altering it. The specifics may be different. The reasosns may (or may not) be different. The principle is exactly the same... Changing the original work.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Nothing hypocritical about NOT wanting the story and characters changed. I can live with cleaning-up the OT, if it must be done. If I had a choice, it would be to leave them alone and not change a thing, but that's not going to happen (and neither is simply cleaning them up a bit).

Where exactly was the story changed?

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Kinetic_Blue

Where exactly was the story changed?

Great point.