Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by mrr1

100% agree. I don't think anyone involved did anything out of the ordinary with ESB versus the other Star Wars movies - I don't think any extra love was put into that one over the others - but absolutely everything happened to come together perfectly in that one.


Watched ATOC last night (it's no Empire Strikes Back, but it's still a pretty fun movie), and I have to admit that the last 40 minutes completely save that one. It's Revenge of the Sith night tonight, and I am psyched.

My ONE nitpick with ESB is the sense of time elapsed while Luke was training with Yoda on Dagobah vs his progress. The way it plays out in the movie, it looks as if Luke went to Yoda's weekend Jedi training camp and suddenly starts doing front flips, levitating rocks and droids, etc. It just doesn't make sense. Especially considering Jedi were trained from birth to be any good.

[al cos.]

Originally Posted by Uxi

You'd have to find someone living on a cave who hasn't heard either the real thing or a parody of "I am your father."

Yeah, or a girl.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

My ONE nitpick with ESB is the sense of time elapsed while Luke was training with Yoda on Dagobah vs his progress. The way it plays out in the movie, it looks as if Luke went to Yoda's weekend Jedi training camp and suddenly starts doing front flips, levitating rocks and droids, etc. It just doesn't make sense. Especially considering Jedi were trained from birth to be any good.

There are way too many continuity errors with the Force in general.

In Empire, Luke is simply "too old to begin training", but Yoda does it anyway. In TPM, he says the same thing about Anakin, who is what, 8 years old? So I'd guess early 20's would be WAY too old, but Yoda kinda brushes it aside with one assurance from Ben.

Sometimes Vader can feel Luke from planets away, other times he can't detect the Millennium Falcon stuck to the hull of his ship. Sometimes Yoda can see far into the future, other times he can't sniff out a Sith Lord who he spends time with on a day-to-day basis. Sometimes they can run with super-speed, other times they get tired. Sometimes they can shoot up and jump 40 feet out of a hole, other times they get stuck in a rancor pit.

I'm not saying it's right, but there is simply too much inconsistency in the Force mythology to really dissect it too much.

I agree, a bit more of a montage (Montaaaaage!) showing his progression could have added some gravity to the force (pun intended).

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Not to mention all the continuity issues introduced ("I remember my mother..." among them).

Again, that's not a continuity issue. It makes sense in the context of the movies.

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places, the future, the past, old friends long gone."

"Just images, really. Feelings."

Since Leia's not aware that she can see things through the Force, then it makes sense that she would mistake images of her mother as memories.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

First time viewing? I'd say IV-V-VI-I-II-III, the order they were released.

Seen 'em all before a number of times? I-II-III-IV-V-VI. This way you get to end on a high note, and the prequel stuff sometimes does add an "oh cool" to the OT.

If you have the patience, go IV-V-VI-I-II-III-IV-V-VI, it lets you see the OT normally and then check some continuity stuff created by the PT.

That's what I'd recommend anyway.

That is exactly what I would recommend.

I usually watch I~VI, but when I first got them all on DVD years ago, I did the IV-V-VI-I-II-III-IV-V-VI thing. The first time through the OT is like the "classic viewing", and the second time through definitely has a different vibe, coming off of the PT. It(the OT) almost feels like two different trilogies when viewed this way, from a certain point of view.

[Adam_ME]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

Again, that's not a continuity issue. It makes sense in the context of the movies.

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places, the future, the past, old friends long gone."

"Just images, really. Feelings."

Since Leia's not aware that she can see things through the Force, then it makes sense that she would mistake images of her mother as memories.

Uh, no. It doesn't make any sense. Leia was about a minute old when her mother died and remembers her being "very beautiful, kind, but sad"? How the hell can she remember that from right after being born? And if she's so powerful in the Force that those images come to her, then why does her twin brother who's far more skilled in his Force abilities "have no memory of [his] mother" as he says in ROTJ?

The problem is that the original novelization of ROTJ if I recall had Padme(who was nameless at the time) in hiding for a few years after the twins were born before she actually died. That's why Leia had real memories when Luke asked about her. Lucas just decided to retcon it in order to apparently tie up as many loose ends as possible in Episode III and ended up creating a massive plothole instead.

[Moviefan2k4]

I've lost count of how many times I've heard folks say, "the best are the ones Lucas didn't direct". Throwing the obvious insult aside, the comment also seems to carry the idea that Lucas didn't know what he was doing, or had no involvement at all, which simply isn't true.

Now, both Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand deserve respect for directing the films; however, let's not forget the main reason that even happened. Lucas said in "Empire of Dreams", that he hired Kershner for "Empire" because he was too busy with corporate duties at the time. If he'd been free to do so, Lucas would've likely taken the reins himself. He also wound up visiting the set often, having many conversations with Kershner, and even did some minor directing in different departments. In the end, Kershner was the director, and was given a lot of freedom to do what he wanted...but Lucas was his boss, and ultimately had the final say. That was the boundary.

The same was also true with Marquand, albeit even more so, because the director wasn't familiar or comfortable working with special effects. Lucas' first choice for "Jedi" was Spielberg, but prior conflicts with various guilds prevented that. Lucas has also said that as time went on in filming, he was on the set almost every day, directing second unit, or constantly guiding Marquand creatively. He had a vision and an intent for these stories, and was determined to preserve them. Regardless of who got credit, its very clear that Lucas always considered "Star Wars" to be his, first and foremost.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

Uh, no. It doesn't make any sense. Leia was about a minute old when her mother died and remembers her being "very beautiful, kind, but sad"? How the hell can she remember that from right after being born? And if she's so powerful in the Force that those images come to her, then why does her twin brother who's far more skilled in his Force abilities "have no memory of [his] mother" as he says in ROTJ?

The problem is that the original novelization of ROTJ if I recall had Padme(who was nameless at the time) in hiding for a few years after the twins were born before she actually died. That's why Leia had real memories when Luke asked about her. Lucas just decided to retcon it in order to apparently tie up as many loose ends as possible in Episode III and ended up creating a massive plothole instead.

+1

People are so selective about what they interpret and choose not to interpret.

I admit it's well-written enough not to think about much, and The Force gives them a lot of wiggle room, but it's retcon nonetheless.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by al cos.

Yeah, or a girl.

Indeed. A chic I knew who obviously wasn't a fan thought Jake Lloyd was playing a younger Luke when TPM came out. Most non-fans just don't care.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by HDPlasma

But those reviews were based on leaks which have now been 100% confirmed to be true.

Means nothing. They're not legitimate reviews. They're just whiny crying fanboys tossing a tizzy.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I've lost count of how many times I've heard folks say, "the best are the ones Lucas didn't direct". Throwing the obvious insult aside, the comment also seems to carry the idea that Lucas didn't know what he was doing, or had no involvement at all, which simply isn't true.

Now, both Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand deserve respect for directing the films; however, let's not forget the main reason that even happened. Lucas said in "Empire of Dreams", that he hired Kershner for "Empire" because he was too busy with corporate duties at the time. If he'd been free to do so, Lucas would've likely taken the reins himself. He also wound up visiting the set often, having many conversations with Kershner, and even did some minor directing in different departments. In the end, Kershner was the director, and was given a lot of freedom to do what he wanted...but Lucas was his boss, and ultimately had the final say. That was the boundary.

The same was also true with Marquand, albeit even more so, because the director wasn't familiar or comfortable working with special effects. Lucas' first choice for "Jedi" was Spielberg, but prior conflicts with various guilds prevented that. Lucas has also said that as time went on in filming, he was on the set almost every day, directing second unit, or constantly guiding Marquand creatively. He had a vision and an intent for these stories, and was determined to preserve them. Regardless of who got credit, its very clear that Lucas always considered "Star Wars" to be his, first and foremost.

Sure he had the final say, but you're diminishing the amount a director brings to the picture. Watching ANH and ESB back-to-back hammers this point home. It's the actual died-in-the-wool directorial elements that make the narrative flow so well and be so powerful in this one. The script is better than the other two, but Kershner does a fantastic job on Empire.

Look at the documented argument that Kershner had to make to change "I love you, too" to "I know", one of the most badass quips in movie history. Something that in 2 words defines Han as a character more than almost anything else in the series. It's those kinds of subtle nuances that Kershner had an eye for, and it's why Empire is good enough to transcend the SW saga and the sci-fi genre as a whole.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

Uh, no. It doesn't make any sense. Leia was about a minute old when her mother died and remembers her being "very beautiful, kind, but sad"? How the hell can she remember that from right after being born? And if she's so powerful in the Force that those images come to her, then why does her twin brother who's far more skilled in his Force abilities "have no memory of [his] mother" as he says in ROTJ?

The problem is that the original novelization of ROTJ if I recall had Padme(who was nameless at the time) in hiding for a few years after the twins were born before she actually died. That's why Leia had real memories when Luke asked about her. Lucas just decided to retcon it in order to apparently tie up as many loose ends as possible in Episode III and ended up creating a massive plothole instead.

Myth is a metaphor for human conditions and psychology. Knowledge of Mother Earth can only come to the ego through interpretation of its unconcious female counterpart - the anima. That's Leias role in the Star Wars myth - she has the power of intuition and equips the hero with knowledge that he uses to overcome his shadow-self...

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Beast

Means nothing. They're not legitimate reviews. They're just whiny crying fanboys tossing a tizzy.

And I suppose the flip-side of that is that all the 5's are slavering fanboys who worship George Lucas trying to deflect the tizzies from the other group of fanboys.

Or does this only work one way?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by HDPlasma

The facts do not change.
SW didn't not sell as well as it should have in the amount of units it should have with it's large fan/following and anticipated HD release.

We need to face the facts that those +20% that didn't buy impacted the units sold.

Bullcrap. Anyone that expected a catalog title to sell more than a brand new blockbuster is fooling themselves.

Especially a catalog title that is 4x as expensive. Thor also gets a sales boost due to having a DVD copy.

Sales were hardly BAD or POOR or any of the other illogical rumblings being tossed around. You have to look at the big picture.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I've lost count of how many times I've heard folks say, "the best are the ones Lucas didn't direct". Throwing the obvious insult aside, the comment also seems to carry the idea that Lucas didn't know what he was doing, or had no involvement at all, which simply isn't true.

Now, both Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand deserve respect for directing the films; however, let's not forget the main reason that even happened. Lucas said in "Empire of Dreams", that he hired Kershner for "Empire" because he was too busy with corporate duties at the time. If he'd been free to do so, Lucas would've likely taken the reins himself. He also wound up visiting the set often, having many conversations with Kershner, and even did some minor directing in different departments. In the end, Kershner was the director, and was given a lot of freedom to do what he wanted...but Lucas was his boss, and ultimately had the final say. That was the boundary.

The same was also true with Marquand, albeit even more so, because the director wasn't familiar or comfortable working with special effects. Lucas' first choice for "Jedi" was Spielberg, but prior conflicts with various guilds prevented that. Lucas has also said that as time went on in filming, he was on the set almost every day, directing second unit, or constantly guiding Marquand creatively. He had a vision and an intent for these stories, and was determined to preserve them. Regardless of who got credit, its very clear that Lucas always considered "Star Wars" to be his, first and foremost.

So, because Andy Serkis is directing some of the second unit work of the Hobbit, he should get just as much credit for the Hobbit as Peter Jackson?

Just playin' with ya....lol

[22soultaker]

Something that made me laugh. Last night i watched ANH after watching the PT trilogy a couple times, i noticed Obi Wan ages like Charlie Sheen. How old was he in EPS 3?

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Myth is a metaphor for human conditions and psychology. Knowledge of Mother Earth can only come to the ego through interpretation of its unconcious female counterpart - the anima. That's Leias role in the Star Wars myth - she has the power of intuition and equips the hero with knowledge that he uses to overcome his shadow-self...

Star Wars, written and directed by the team of Sartre/Kierkegaard/Tzu/Tao/Jung/Freud/Aristotle!

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Sometimes Vader can feel Luke from planets away, other times he can't detect the Millennium Falcon stuck to the hull of his ship.

Uh, that wasn't Vader's ship and besides Luke wasn't on it then anyway. Vader chokes out the guy who's ship the Falcon landed on, who goes to Vader's ship on a shuttle. "Apology accepted, Captain Needa"

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

And I suppose the flip-side of that is that all the 5's are slavering fanboys who worship George Lucas trying to deflect the tizzies from the other group of fanboys.

Or does this only work one way?

I think everyone as mention time and again Amazon reviews have no meaning...that means from 5 stars to 1 stars

I see losers in there rate 5 stars because Jackie Chan is their god and others rate a 1 stars cause they find him silly. Never mind not one person is talking about the movie as it should be reviewed. Amazon reviews are worthless to the point of wondering why they are even there.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by phansson

Everything I see and hear, IMHO, brings me in or takes me out of a movie. If my wife is sitting next to me crunching on ice, it COMPLETELY takes me out of a movie. If something doesn't stay the same size in a movie, it tends to be a bother. Especially something that is defined by an extremely long pan to make sure you notice that it is REALLY big.

The door size thing in ROTJ was an unnecessary change. Kudo's to Lucas for being a complete and utter idiot.....

I get your position. But saying 'kudo's (sic) to Lucas for being a complete and utter idiot' undermines your point. Clearly, a man who managed to create an entire universe and get 6 films made successfully (5 of them independently) to fund his other ventures is not an idiot. Maybe some changes are short sighted or irresponsible, but keep some context here.