Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I remember that part, it was in Episode 2: Attack of the Clones, I believe. At any rate, the level of someone's intelligence should not infer whether they are intelligent.

Intelligence has been defined in many different ways, including the abilities, but not limited to, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, reasoning, learning, having emotional knowledge, retaining, planning, and problem solving.

Jar Jar expresses many of these qualities which makes me wonder how George Lucas could forget a very basic character trait that he created for the Jedi Knights during the Original Trilogy. I just find it odd that this would get by his editors. better yet, he wrote it, so how did he forget one of the basic tenets of the Jedi Order.

My argument is that Jar Jar has communication skills along with other skills such as reasoning, understanding and problem solving.

Now you are changing your original thinking, you said it was a very un-Jedi thing to say, the arrogance of the Jedi have by this point in the history of the galaxy make's the comment have a lot of sense not whatever Jar Jar as intelligent or not. The comment is a very good one coming from someone who feel's superior over "the little people" after a 1000 years of feeling special. The main trouble is that people expected the Jedi order to be knight in white clothing, pure and good of heart. At that point in the story they no longer are with a few exception but even those exceptions (Obiwan and Yoda) still needed a spanking in order to bring them back to reality. Anakin does bring balance to the Force and the Jedi order just not the way the Jedi expected or wanted it. The comment made by Qui Gon is perfect and show the arrogance and the superiority complex the Jedi have by that time, it as nothing to do with being right or wrong.

[kemcha]

TNA, I would believe that if the movie series had been produced in order. But, Lucas backpedaled and didn't bother to cover up the minors problems with the Prequel Trilogy. I'm not saying they were major mistakes, but there were so many inconsistencies in the Prequel Trilogy that Lucas should have corrected before the final version was released to theaters. That's what editors are supposed to be for.

I do agree that Jedi's have been arrogant ever since they first appeared in the original version of "Star Wars" but that it's not arrogance when the Jedi Order decide that "speech" or the ability to "communicate" is not a trait to be associated with intelligence. I wouldn't think that Jedi's would be that arrogant. If that were so, then Ewoks, Wookies, Mon Calamarians aren't intelligent either.

I'm not debating on which species is intelligent but rather how Jedi's in the original trilogy would respect sentient life but classify a lifeform who has the traits of intelligence, and later discover that Jar Jar is intelligent and that they simply "assumed" he wasn't intelligent.

Arrogance is one thing, but I was always under the impression that Jedi don't "assume" anything.

[fat_rancor_keeper]

Any crap heaped on jar-Jar from other characters I'm all for.

But Qui-Gon's line to Shmi about not being on Tattoine to free slaves always seemed very cold, totally out of line and unnecessary.

He could have just said nothing and it would have better a thousand times better than that line.

[kemcha]

I have to admit that as well. I don't know. The Jedis that appear in the Prequel trilogy just seem so out of touch from what we learned from the Original Trilogy. There's just too much inconsistency in the Prequels. I just wish that Lucas had been consistent in regards to every film ... I'm not saying that the Prequels were better, as I did enjoy them to the point where they filled in the backstory of the "Star Wars" saga but I just felt the the two trilogies were complete opposites of one another when you look at the idea of what the Jedi order is supposed to be.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Know something? I'm sitting here finally watching the entire series on Blu-ray and while I was aware of the line of dialogue, I'm wondering how George Lucas completely forgot what the Jedi Knights were all about.

During the start of Episode 1: The Phantom Menace, Jar Jar Binks says "I Speak" to which Qui Gon Jinn replies, "the ability to speak does not make one intelligent". Since when do Jedi Knights make such derogatory comments in regards to sentient lifeforms? The Gungans are a very intelligent lifeform so I'm wondering how the Jedi Knight Order have such a low regard for such organic lifeforms who have the ability of speech?

I think that's an insult coming from a Jedi Knight as wise and experienced as Qui Gonn Jinn.

But the ability to answer and comprehend does make one "intelligent"

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Know something? I'm sitting here finally watching the entire series on Blu-ray and while I was aware of the line of dialogue, I'm wondering how George Lucas completely forgot what the Jedi Knights were all about.

During the start of Episode 1: The Phantom Menace, Jar Jar Binks says "I Speak" to which Qui Gon Jinn replies, "the ability to speak does not make one intelligent". Since when do Jedi Knights make such derogatory comments in regards to sentient lifeforms? The Gungans are a very intelligent lifeform so I'm wondering how the Jedi Knight Order have such a low regard for such organic lifeforms who have the ability of speech?

I think that's an insult coming from a Jedi Knight as wise and experienced as Qui Gonn Jinn.

Well, considering Jar Jar almost got his A$$ killed I say he got off easy with an insult. Jedi or not I'd be pissed and you best believe Jedi's do in fact get pissed. There are examples all through the saga of that fact.

[kemcha]

Well, as I posted before, according to the definition of intelligence:

Intelligence has been defined in many different ways, including the abilities, but not limited to, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, reasoning, learning, having emotional knowledge, retaining, planning, and problem solving.

Jar Jar has been proven to be intelligent but that Qui Gon Jinn made his comment prior to realizing what kind of species and who the character was. being able to speak may not make someone intelligent, but the ability to form thought, communicate with reason and being self-aware is something that actually does conform to being intelligent.

I never intended for this to be a discussion on intelligence but rather the short-sightedness of Jedis in the Prequel trilogy and their inability that they cannot recognize intelligence when they come across it in a lifeform.

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Lucas forgot about a lot of things when writing the prequels.

Quote of this entire thread.

[ahossein79]

Originally Posted by The Dragon

Quote of this entire thread.

Can we keep this topic about the discs and not have it be for people's soapbox for their rants against the prequels. Even though I am 33 I despise the older generation because I feel some have never given these movies a chance!

[svenge]

Originally Posted by ahossein79

Even though I am 33 I despise the older generation because I feel some have never given these movies a chance!

You forget that almost everyone was eagerly looking forward to Episode I before its release, only to have their hopes dashed upon actually viewing the film. The PT had its chance and it failed, period.

In fact, your claim about people not giving the movies a chance is simply an oft-repeated falsehood parroted by Lucas fanboys who can't comprehend how The Flanneled One™ failed so horribly. Instead of blaming the filmmaker for his failure they blame the viewers for not liking it. This deflection of blame is somewhat reminiscent of the famous "stab-in-the-back myth" perpetuated in Germany after WWI.

[kemcha]

While the prequels are not better than the original trilogy, the prequel films are pretty decent films. I actually enjoyed Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. The Phantom Menace was the only one which didn't seem to fit in with the rest of the trilogy.

[Gardenofstone10]

I just picked up the individual trilogies on BD and the art work is so stunning. I love it

[jd_from_da_80s]

Originally Posted by Gardenofstone10

I just picked up the individual trilogies on BD and the art work is so stunning. I love it

Yea the art work is very good, if they would have had all of the features that are included with the complete saga I would have purchased those instead. Now I'm just waiting for BBY to open so I can pick up my order

[kemcha]

I'd like to know why Lucasfilm didn't add any disk-art for the separate disks. This has always been a staple for Lucasfilm. But, the cover art is horrendous. I wish they would have done these covers with "photo-realistic" artwork.

[RayCRP]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I have to admit that as well. I don't know. The Jedis that appear in the Prequel trilogy just seem so out of touch from what we learned from the Original Trilogy. There's just too much inconsistency in the Prequels. I just wish that Lucas had been consistent in regards to every film ... I'm not saying that the Prequels were better, as I did enjoy them to the point where they filled in the backstory of the "Star Wars" saga but I just felt the the two trilogies were complete opposites of one another when you look at the idea of what the Jedi order is supposed to be.

I think that was point. Over millennia, the Jedi Order and their views had become dogmatic, as Palpatine put it, and they continued to rid themselves of possession and emotion. You'll notice the Purge incidentally eliminated many Jedi that were raised with the old beliefs, but it was compassion and love that killed Sidious, saved Luke, brought balance to the Force, and was apparently the secret to achieving a state of eternal consciousness within that Force.

Qui-Gon had studied the work of a Shaman of the Whills. It was Anakin in AOTC that toyed with the idea that compassion was essential (perhaps philosophically, perhaps as a pickup line...). Between the trilogies, Qui-Gon passed on his learning to Yoda, who then passed it on to Obi-Wan, which is why Obi-Wan's views and knowledge of the Force are noticeably different in the original trilogy. It's under this paradigm that Luke starts the New Jedi Order, where compassion is essential, and Jedi are allowed to love, marry, have and raise kids, and develop those close personal bonds with friends and family.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I have to admit that as well. I don't know. The Jedis that appear in the Prequel trilogy just seem so out of touch from what we learned from the Original Trilogy. There's just too much inconsistency in the Prequels. I just wish that Lucas had been consistent in regards to every film ... I'm not saying that the Prequels were better, as I did enjoy them to the point where they filled in the backstory of the "Star Wars" saga but I just felt the the two trilogies were complete opposites of one another when you look at the idea of what the Jedi order is supposed to be.

You'd think people would've gotten an idea of how the early Jedi operated due to them having numerous video games and novels before The Phantom Menace came out.

[tigertron]

Originally Posted by svenge

You forget that almost everyone was eagerly looking forward to Episode I before its release, only to have their hopes dashed upon actually viewing the film. The PT had its chance and it failed, period.

Thats your opinion. *sigh*

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

You'd think people would've gotten an idea of how the early Jedi operated due to them having numerous video games and novels before The Phantom Menace came out.

but did they feature Liam Neeson and Samuel L Jackson as Jedi?

[svenge]

Originally Posted by tigertron

Thats your opinion. *sigh*

It's also the consensus. Anyone over 13 years old who saw it theatrically and liked it was a statistical outlier.

And nice passive-aggressive sigh, by the way. I prefer to show my disdain for others with smilies, however.

[mzupeman]

I had high hopes before going in to see Episode I, and I left the theater pretty satisfied. I mean, it didn't hold a candle to the original trilogy by any means, but it was Star Wars goodness nonetheless and I appreciated it for what it was.

Nowadays, my opinion of it isn't so high. However, I don't think it's as horrible as so many people make it out to be either. Jar Jar was obviousy a big negative, but in the same respect, I just think they were aiming to provide us with another comic relief character like C3P0... but went wayyyyyyy over the top since George was much more in a mindset of, "I'm making this for the next generation."

Honestly, after getting this Blu-ray set, I really don't think Episodes II or III are that much better in comparison to Episode I. They all have their issues and suffer from the same bland storytelling. *shrugs* I still enjoy them though for what they're worth, and they're still far better than that crap-fest that was John Carter.

[kemcha]

The problem with the video games and novels is that George Lucas does not consider them to be official canon for the movie saga. While they exist in the same universe, technically, they aren't included in the movie universe.

This whole "canon' argument came up during Bantam's publishing of the Star Wars novels, which is why they are considered the "Expanded Universe". While they continue the "Star Wars saga", they are separate from the movie saga.

But, where the OT vs PT is concerned? I don't think that's how Obi-Wan changed his attitude. Simply because the idea of that knowledge that was passed on wasn't even an idea when "Star Wars" was first released. This is why I hate it when a series starts in the middle and then "backpeddles" to fill in missing gaps or try to add new concepts for the overall storyarc.

Midi-chlorians and all of that jazz? Lucas seemed to be drunk when he was creating all of these new ideas when it wasn't even mentioned in the original trilogy. Not even Yoda mentioned this in "Empire Strikes Back", when he was training Luke in the ways of the Force. I'm not saying that they didn't exists during the original trilogy but Lucas should have stuck to working on the backstory for the prequel trilogy instead of creating new plot ideas for things that fans didn't even know about in the original trilogy.