Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[RyanPom]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Apparently you don't pay attention, Superman Anthology has been in the low $50 range a dozen times.

Still too pricey. Got the Band of Brothers set for cheaper.

[jala12]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

The final battle of ships near the end of the movie still hopes up incredibly well - better than anything CGI I've seen.

Really? I've always held the opposite opinion of this. While some shots do look great like when the ships are just flying, the explosions look downright terrible, and the composites aren't always consistent.

The best part I think is when they fly into into the entrance of the core's tunnel. Now THAT looks like something that could rival CG.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

The final battle of ships near the end of the movie still hopes up incredibly well - better than anything CGI I've seen.

Especially when the TIE interceptors fade out before flying off screen...

If you don't know what I'm referring to, it's when the two fleets engage and the Y-Wing pilot shouts "Iiiiii'm hiiiit!!!" and goes spinning into the Star Destroyer. 3 TIE interceptors fly by and the last one fades out before reaching the other side of the screen. Something I'm surprised they didn't fix for the SE.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Especially when the TIE interceptors fade out before flying off screen...

If you don't know what I'm referring to, it's when the two fleets engage and the Y-Wing pilot shouts "Iiiiii'm hiiiit!!!" and goes spinning into the Star Destroyer. 3 TIE interceptors fly by and the last one fades out before reaching the other side of the screen. Something I'm surprised they didn't fix for the SE.

Wait for Return of the Jedi:Revisited by Adywan
They are fixing that...

[Revolution 9]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Other than the Ewok scenes I think ROTJ is just as good as Empire. Please keep in mind you are speaking to a Star Wars junkie who has seen all six probably a few hundred times.

Are you kidding? RotJ is a seriously flawed film, even more so than The Phantom Menace. The only thing that saves RotJ is the epic final 30 minutes of the film, which in my opinion is as good as any in the Star Wars saga. Unfortunately, the first 90 minutes of the film is a complete train wreck.

I've repeated this many times already, but I'll repeat it again... the glaring flaws of RotJ laid bare:

• The castration of Han Solo. The biggest badass from the first two films was reduced into a bumbling comic relief / damsel in distress for this one. The worst moment of his manhood came when he professes "I Love You" to Leia, who in turn responds with "I Know".

• The Rancor pit sequence is the ONLY scene from the original trilogy that has aged terribly. It looks like something out of a 1968 low budget movie. If there was one scene that Lucas could've justified a CGI redo for the special edition, that would've been it.

• The song and dance routine at Jabba's place? At what point in the film's development did that seem like a good idea?

• Need I remind you of the ignominious demise of Bobba Fett? Of the 1000 ways for such a cool villain to die, the movie picked the lamest one.

• A second Death Star. Really?!? Of all the great possibilities for a third Star Wars film to close the saga... that was the best plot line they came up with?

• Speaking of rehashing old plot lines... What about the ridiculous Leia-as-Luke's sister plot twist? That has to be the stupidest plot line in the entire franchise. It made no sense, and in fact it was a worse retcon than any you'll find in the prequels.

• What about Han's Three's Company-esque misunderstanding of Leia's love for Luke? As cringe-worthy scenes go, that is almost as bad as the infamous fireplace scene between Anakin & Padme in AotC. Almost.

• Ewoks worshiping 3PO as a god? Sorry, but that is simply a terrible plotline. I dare you to find a Jar-Jar plot line from the prequels that was worse than that one.

• Ewoks nearly defeat a mechanized imperial army? Seriously? Even when I watched that scene as a child, I felt like the film was insulting my intelligence. At least the Gungans had the decency to get routed pretty badly in TPM... and even they had access to some high tech weaponry. Ewoks in RotJ were using just sticks and stones.

You'd have to be blinded by nostalgia not to recognize how flawed RotJ really is. In my opinion, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Revenge of the Sith were the only truly great films in the saga. The other three films --- RotJ, TPM, and AotC --- were still very enjoyable in their own way, but each had glaring flaws that were sometimes difficult to overlook. Had it not been for the epic final 30 minutes of RotJ, that film would easily be the absolute worse entry in the franchise.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

• The castration of Han Solo. The biggest badass from the first two films was reduced into a bumbling comic relief / damsel in distress for this one. The worst moment of his manhood came when he professes "I Love You" to Leia, who in turn responds with "I Know".

I agree with most of your points, R9, to varying degrees, but this for me was the biggest fumble of the OT. It annoys the crap out of me when a character is distorted, either for yuks or to manufacture dramatic tension, and as distortions go, this was a doozy. Ford must have been aware of what was happening, and I wonder if that's why he went so goofball and his acting is so bad in the third flick.

Plus: it always annoyed me from A New Hope on that the stormtroopers' armour was so bloody useless — why did they even bother putting it on?! — especially since their helmets never seemed to be fixed to anything, and tended to just wobble around like bobble dolls — but seeing them get knocked out by a stick in RotJ just took it to utterly ludicrous heights. There's very little of RotJ I can enjoyably watch ... and now that it has Xtra K-Nooooo!!! added, even the Emperor sequence is a little cringeworthy.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

Are you kidding? RotJ is a seriously flawed film, even more so than The Phantom Menace. The only thing that saves RotJ is the epic final 30 minutes of the film, which in my opinion is as good as any in the Star Wars saga. Unfortunately, the first 90 minutes of the film is a complete train wreck.

I've repeated this many times already, but I'll repeat it again... the glaring flaws of RotJ laid bare:

• The castration of Han Solo. The biggest badass from the first two films was reduced into a bumbling comic relief / damsel in distress for this one. The worst moment of his manhood came when he professes "I Love You" to Leia, who in turn responds with "I Know".

• The Rancor pit sequence is the ONLY scene from the original trilogy that has aged terribly. It looks like something out of a 1968 low budget movie. If there was one scene that Lucas could've justified a CGI redo for the special edition, that would've been it.

• The song and dance routine at Jabba's place? At what point in the film's development did that seem like a good idea?

• Need I remind you of the ignominious demise of Bobba Fett? Of the 1000 ways for such a cool villain to die, the movie picked the lamest one.

• A second Death Star. Really?!? Of all the great possibilities for a third Star Wars film to close the saga... that was the best plot line they came up with?

• Speaking of rehashing old plot lines... What about the ridiculous Leia-as-Luke's sister plot twist? That has to be the stupidest plot line in the entire franchise. It made no sense, and in fact it was a worse retcon than any you'll find in the prequels.

• What about Han's Three's Company-esque misunderstanding of Leia's love for Luke? As cringe-worthy scenes go, that is almost as bad as the infamous fireplace scene between Anakin & Padme in AotC. Almost.

• Ewoks worshiping 3PO as a god? Sorry, but that is simply a terrible plotline. I dare you to find a Jar-Jar plot line from the prequels that was worse than that one.

• Ewoks nearly defeat a mechanized imperial army? Seriously? Even when I watched that scene as a child, I felt like the film was insulting my intelligence. At least the Gungans had the decency to get routed pretty badly in TPM... and even they had access to some high tech weaponry. Ewoks in RotJ were using just sticks and stones.

You'd have to be blinded by nostalgia not to recognize how flawed RotJ really is. In my opinion, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Revenge of the Sith were the only truly great films in the saga. The other three films --- RotJ, TPM, and AotC --- were still very enjoyable in their own way, but each had glaring flaws that were sometimes difficult to overlook. Had it not been for the epic final 30 minutes of RotJ, that film would easily be the absolute worse entry in the franchise.

I'll just add that this is all your opinion. You also apparently like to hear yourself type.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

That's just it. Lucas comes up with excellent ideas, but putting them in film is not a talent of his. This is why Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are so much better than the other four films.

Disagree. Return of the Jedi is poor for the most part and is on about the same level as the prequels. Yes the SPX are amazing particularly the speeder ride sequence and all the space scenes, yes the last 30 minutes are great, but there is so much horrible dialog, not much of a plot to work with, bad acting all round and the dumbing down of the series with those Ewoks is just cringe worthy. The only thing worse then Ewoks would be a team of Jars-Jars. I much prefer ANH and ESB, even the mediocre TPM shades it IMO.

AOTC and ROTS are just as bad if not worse..

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by RyanPom

Still too pricey. Got the Band of Brothers set for cheaper.

That's not the point. You said it never goes on sale, when, in fact, it did...many times.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

Are you kidding? RotJ is a seriously flawed film, even more so than The Phantom Menace. The only thing that saves RotJ is the epic final 30 minutes of the film, which in my opinion is as good as any in the Star Wars saga. Unfortunately, the first 90 minutes of the film is a complete train wreck.

I've repeated this many times already, but I'll repeat it again... the glaring flaws of RotJ laid bare:

• The castration of Han Solo. The biggest badass from the first two films was reduced into a bumbling comic relief / damsel in distress for this one. The worst moment of his manhood came when he professes "I Love You" to Leia, who in turn responds with "I Know".

• The Rancor pit sequence is the ONLY scene from the original trilogy that has aged terribly. It looks like something out of a 1968 low budget movie. If there was one scene that Lucas could've justified a CGI redo for the special edition, that would've been it.

• The song and dance routine at Jabba's place? At what point in the film's development did that seem like a good idea?

• Need I remind you of the ignominious demise of Bobba Fett? Of the 1000 ways for such a cool villain to die, the movie picked the lamest one.

• A second Death Star. Really?!? Of all the great possibilities for a third Star Wars film to close the saga... that was the best plot line they came up with?

• Speaking of rehashing old plot lines... What about the ridiculous Leia-as-Luke's sister plot twist? That has to be the stupidest plot line in the entire franchise. It made no sense, and in fact it was a worse retcon than any you'll find in the prequels.

• What about Han's Three's Company-esque misunderstanding of Leia's love for Luke? As cringe-worthy scenes go, that is almost as bad as the infamous fireplace scene between Anakin & Padme in AotC. Almost.

• Ewoks worshiping 3PO as a god? Sorry, but that is simply a terrible plotline. I dare you to find a Jar-Jar plot line from the prequels that was worse than that one.

• Ewoks nearly defeat a mechanized imperial army? Seriously? Even when I watched that scene as a child, I felt like the film was insulting my intelligence. At least the Gungans had the decency to get routed pretty badly in TPM... and even they had access to some high tech weaponry. Ewoks in RotJ were using just sticks and stones.

You'd have to be blinded by nostalgia not to recognize how flawed RotJ really is. In my opinion, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Revenge of the Sith were the only truly great films in the saga. The other three films --- RotJ, TPM, and AotC --- were still very enjoyable in their own way, but each had glaring flaws that were sometimes difficult to overlook. Had it not been for the epic final 30 minutes of RotJ, that film would easily be the absolute worse entry in the franchise.

For the ones I bolded...
1 - Totally agree... Thankfully, Team Adywan is fixing this...
2 - Lame, boring ass charater. Thank god he's gone. Highly overrated character!
3 - To a primitive race, seeing a Golden "Man" would be the equivalent of seeing a "god." This one is not at all hard to believe. What is hard to believe is that the were able to beat up Armoured toopers with sticks... Granted the Logs and boulders would be useful, but for the "hand-to-hand"... yeah, not so much...

And, after a "near-death" experience, yeah, Han is gonna be rethinking how he is and what he does. It's not a stretch for him to admit his love for Leia.

And the biggest thing of all...
They are all kids movies...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Especially when the TIE interceptors fade out before flying off screen...

If you don't know what I'm referring to, it's when the two fleets engage and the Y-Wing pilot shouts "Iiiiii'm hiiiit!!!" and goes spinning into the Star Destroyer. 3 TIE interceptors fly by and the last one fades out before reaching the other side of the screen. Something I'm surprised they didn't fix for the SE.

There's loads of garbage mattes which weren't fixed either, which does a disservice to some of the most complex opticals ever attempted. I heard that they ran out of money for the SE fixes back in the day, though they obviously had enough cash to 'fix' the dance sequence in Jabba's palace first. And more money was spent on making the ewoks blink etc for the Blu-ray, but STILL the space battle remains untouched. And I would've loved to have seen a more fitting demise for the Executor, instead of that lame-o model simply disappearing in a plume of smoke.

Good old George, always had his priorities straight.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Good old George, always had his priorities straight.

One of the worst things with the special editions is that they fixed some things, left others and actually created more errors due to carelessness.

They should have gone the whole hog and re-done all the effects, with new space battles and added a new CGI battle between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan in ANH.

[blonde_devil]

The really weird part is that when Lucas did Star Wars, he said he wanted it to be like the old Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers serial films but just modernized and that is pretty much what we got the first time around. Yet since then, he has used these films to test out new technologies in film making - cgi, digital sets, etc - so it keeps getting further and further away from that serial style. I don't mind some of the fixes because they make sense - Han's "vest" from Empire for example. I think had he focused on things like that and then just fixed things like matte lines, people would be happy.

[MacEachaidh]

Mmm, but Lucas has made soooo many "definitive" statements about these flicks, about what he "always" intended and what he's trying to do, and then gone back on pretty much all of them. Even claimed on occasion that he'd never said things that there are records of him saying, which is pretty silly thing to do if he wants fans to remain trusting and interested in his efforts.

I know he's pissed off with people for complaining, and in some ways I don't blame him, but he's also been largely responsible for creating the situation himself. Of course he's allowed to change his mind, but if he'd seen any of these fits of revisionism through thoroughly and consistently, then fans would know where they and the films stood, and could make their choices accordingly.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There's loads of garbage mattes which weren't fixed either, which does a disservice to some of the most complex opticals ever attempted. I heard that they ran out of money for the SE fixes back in the day, though they obviously had enough cash to 'fix' the dance sequence in Jabba's palace first. And more money was spent on making the ewoks blink etc for the Blu-ray, but STILL the space battle remains untouched. And I would've loved to have seen a more fitting demise for the Executor, instead of that lame-o model simply disappearing in a plume of smoke.

Good old George, always had his priorities straight.

Wasn't money, it was time.

Originally only Episode IV was going to get the SE treatment, when they got back positive results Lucas decided to do the other two. To locate and recomposite so many elements for every shot that had errors was simply impossible in the time frame given.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Mmm, but Lucas has made soooo many "definitive" statements about these flicks, about what he "always" intended and what he's trying to do, and then gone back on pretty much all of them. Even claimed on occasion that he'd never said things that there are records of him saying, which is pretty silly thing to do if he wants fans to remain trusting and interested in his efforts.

I know he's pissed off with people for complaining, and in some ways I don't blame him, but he's also been largely responsible for creating the situation himself. Of course he's allowed to change his mind, but if he'd seen any of these fits of revisionism through thoroughly and consistently, then fans would know where they and the films stood, and could make their choices accordingly.

Agreed.

I don't know why he didn't just re-make Ep 4-6 given how much he seemingly ended up disliking them.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

Are you kidding? RotJ is a seriously flawed film, even more so than The Phantom Menace. The only thing that saves RotJ is the epic final 30 minutes of the film, which in my opinion is as good as any in the Star Wars saga. Unfortunately, the first 90 minutes of the film is a complete train wreck.

I've repeated this many times already, but I'll repeat it again... the glaring flaws of RotJ laid bare:

• The castration of Han Solo. The biggest badass from the first two films was reduced into a bumbling comic relief / damsel in distress for this one. The worst moment of his manhood came when he professes "I Love You" to Leia, who in turn responds with "I Know".

• The Rancor pit sequence is the ONLY scene from the original trilogy that has aged terribly. It looks like something out of a 1968 low budget movie. If there was one scene that Lucas could've justified a CGI redo for the special edition, that would've been it.

• The song and dance routine at Jabba's place? At what point in the film's development did that seem like a good idea?

• Need I remind you of the ignominious demise of Bobba Fett? Of the 1000 ways for such a cool villain to die, the movie picked the lamest one.

• A second Death Star. Really?!? Of all the great possibilities for a third Star Wars film to close the saga... that was the best plot line they came up with?

• Speaking of rehashing old plot lines... What about the ridiculous Leia-as-Luke's sister plot twist? That has to be the stupidest plot line in the entire franchise. It made no sense, and in fact it was a worse retcon than any you'll find in the prequels.

• What about Han's Three's Company-esque misunderstanding of Leia's love for Luke? As cringe-worthy scenes go, that is almost as bad as the infamous fireplace scene between Anakin & Padme in AotC. Almost.

• Ewoks worshiping 3PO as a god? Sorry, but that is simply a terrible plotline. I dare you to find a Jar-Jar plot line from the prequels that was worse than that one.

• Ewoks nearly defeat a mechanized imperial army? Seriously? Even when I watched that scene as a child, I felt like the film was insulting my intelligence. At least the Gungans had the decency to get routed pretty badly in TPM... and even they had access to some high tech weaponry. Ewoks in RotJ were using just sticks and stones.

You'd have to be blinded by nostalgia not to recognize how flawed RotJ really is. In my opinion, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Revenge of the Sith were the only truly great films in the saga. The other three films --- RotJ, TPM, and AotC --- were still very enjoyable in their own way, but each had glaring flaws that were sometimes difficult to overlook. Had it not been for the epic final 30 minutes of RotJ, that film would easily be the absolute worse entry in the franchise.

I agree that RotJ was a flawed film-- especially the Ewok stuff that slows the movie down to a crawl in the middle. HOWEVER, I seriously disagree with you that it is more flawed than the Phantom Menace. Despite some dodgy Rancor effects, the opening of the film, where we finally get to see Jabba (not counting Lucas adding him into the dreadful Special Edition of A New Hope) is great, as is the finale (which we both agree on). Phantom Menace is such an abysmal film it has nothing redeemable, save for a few bits with Darth Maul, I suppose.

And I don't agree with your "Han Solo was castrated" argument either. Now, he doesn't really have an interesting arc in this film, but he's still basically his character. And I liked the "I know" scene in this one-- it shows that Leia holds her own with him and they are a good match. So, while I felt like they didn't give Han much of interest to do in this film, I wouldn't go so far as to say they ruined his character.

[HeavyHitter]

As far as Jedi, I think the first third of the movie (Jabba sequence) and the last third of the movie were very good; it was just the middle third that could have been better. I do think the whole thing of the Ewoks was about merchandising despite how well Star Wars stuff sold - it gave them 'cute' things to sell and possibly it catered to girls more something the other two movies didn't really offer. In retrospect, I kind of wish Lucas could have come up with something else instead yet another death star to destroy - maybe something a little more original? However, I still think Jedi is superior to any of the prequels, no question.

[RayCRP]

Originally Posted by Revolution 9

• The Rancor pit sequence is the ONLY scene from the original trilogy that has aged terribly. It looks like something out of a 1968 low budget movie. If there was one scene that Lucas could've justified a CGI redo for the special edition, that would've been it.

I would argue that the duel between Vader and Kenobi in IV has aged horribly as well. The set itself is fine and the acting and dialogue are great, but visually that scene is atrocious, especially for anyone watching the movies in episode order and thus following the Vader/Kenobi duel in III. At the very least, the duel in IV needs to be properly rotoscoped (blades and impact flashes). Unfortunately there's very little that can be done to fix the fight choreography without extreme backlash. Dooku ruined the argument that old men can't properly display mastery of a lightsaber.

[Panama Jack]

Originally Posted by RayCRP

I would argue that the duel between Vader and Kenobi in IV has aged horribly as well. The set itself is fine and the acting and dialogue are great, but visually that scene is atrocious, especially for anyone watching the movies in episode order and thus following the Vader/Kenobi duel in III. At the very least, the duel in IV needs to be properly rotoscoped (blades and impact flashes). Unfortunately there's very little that can be done to fix the fight choreography without extreme backlash. Dooku ruined the argument that old men can't properly display mastery of a lightsaber.

Coming from someone who really doesn't mind the special editions or the prequels, the ONLY things I would want "fixed" in the ANH Obi-Vader fight arethe sabers.

Viewing the saga in order, I have come to appreciate the interpretation that Obi-wan wasn't fighting Vader to actually fight him. He was creating a distraction for Luke & Co. to get away. He was toying with Vader. This catches even Vader off guard when he exclaims, "wow, dude, you've gotten old and weak." The way I see it, if Obi had wanted to fight Vader Dooku-style, he very well could have. But that wasn't his intent or his plan. In that sense, I'm glad it was left as is. Still, having the sabers fixed all the way throughout the fight would have been nice.