Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. Sometimes it's not about the outcome, it's about the journey. I know that sounds like hippy-dippy bullshit but it's true. As Dotpattern said, why do people go and see movies based on books or based on real-life events when they already know what's gonna happen? Because it's about seeing how and why they got to that ultimate fate.

Apollo 13 is one of my favourite movies, I get goosebumps watching the launch scene and have a tear in my eye every time they come out of re-entry unscathed, it's just a brilliant bit of storytelling. And I love rewatching Sixth Sense or The Game, because it's fascinating to see how the movies are constructed around their respective twists. The twists are a means to an end, and the intricacies of the storytelling remain undiminished.

But there's a difference between a film about a historical event and a trilogy of fantasy movies. There's also a difference between rewatching an old favorite and getting people excited to see something new at the theater. Even if remakes of the PT were exceptionally well made, it's keeping the story stuck in the same rut for almost another decade. The Phantom Menace was one of the highest grossing movies of all time. Episode I: Take 2 would be difficult to hype. "This summer, see what Darth Vader was like before the mask...again - it's better this time, promise!" "Get ready for an experience that will leave you content with the way things were done this time around."

Amazing Spiderman is a decent comparison. I enjoyed it, and it was generally well-received, but it was so similar to Raimi's film (which was so recently made) that it was kind of boring upon first viewing. I was waiting for them to get the origin story out of the way so we could get to something new.

Still, the prequel project was unique in that so much of the story had been decided by the OT, and meeting point B had to be a priority. In this case, there is only so much you can do because so much has been firmly established If they do remakes the prequels, they should just reboot the entire saga. It would give the artists a lot more freedom in telling the Skywalker story linearly and allow the fans to relax instead of looking for inconsistencies with original trilogy (which will be inevitable)

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've always thought the same thing. I don't wanna hear any "but it's a gas giant!" shit either, because they don't say that in the film, so anything else is fan-wank (which also applies to the EU now ) designed to dig the movie out of a plot hole. It's not just the prequels which do that, then? Imagine that.

And why, when the Rebels attack, don't they just turn the tractor beam back on and pull in all the Rebel fighters? I mean, Ben didn't destroy the tractor beam, he twiddled a few switches. There are only seven locations where the reactor is coupled to the beam so it wouldn't have taken a genius to figure out what/where the problem was. Hell, the same thing applies to Jedi too, unless their tractor beam wasn't being installed until Tuesday...

Heh, I've wondered that too. I'm gonna go with: Destroying a planet creates a lot of debris, and they need a clear shot for the Death Star to work properly. Also, destroying the planet would throw the moon out of orbit, and force of the explosion might send the rebel base flying out of range.....Although that would probably still kill them all....

As for the tractor beam, that would have been a hilariously unfortunate ending. I think we can chalk it up to Imperial arrogance, or maybe the tractor beam's warranty had just passed the "free phone service" period, and Tarkin was feeling cheap.

[Geoff D]

Yeah, I guess the limited warranty had expired and he didn't wanna call out the repair guy

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by thegoat

But there's a difference between a film about a historical event and a trilogy of fantasy movies. There's also a difference between rewatching an old favorite and getting people excited to see something new at the theater. Even if remakes of the PT were exceptionally well made, it's keeping the story stuck in the same rut for almost another decade. The Phantom Menace was one of the highest grossing movies of all time. Episode I: Take 2 would be difficult to hype. "This summer, see what Darth Vader was like before the mask...again - it's better this time, promise!" "Get ready for an experience that will leave you content with the way things were done this time around."

Amazing Spiderman is a decent comparison. I enjoyed it, and it was generally well-received, but it was so similar to Raimi's film (which was so recently made) that it was kind of boring upon first viewing. I was waiting for them to get the origin story out of the way so we could get to something new.

Still, the prequel project was unique in that so much of the story had been decided by the OT, and meeting point B had to be a priority. In this case, there is only so much you can do because so much has been firmly established If they do remakes the prequels, they should just reboot the entire saga. It would give the artists a lot more freedom in telling the Skywalker story linearly and allow the fans to relax instead of looking for inconsistencies with original trilogy (which will be inevitable).

I dig what you're saying, but I'm not really arguing the point that they should be remaking them, in which case there would definitely be some sort of audience fatigue because of the proximity of the projects. *cough* Spider-Man *cough* No, it's more that prequels can expand and enrich our ideas of who these characters are, and while the big payoff is always hanging there it's only a miniscule part of the story.

And it's funny you should say that so much of what happens in the PT was decided in the OT, because one of the complaints I always hear about the PT is that a lot of it doesn't carry a great deal of importance re: the OT. Lucas himself said something like 20% of the story was in the first two movies and the other 80% was in Sith, i.e. there's a lot of filler, and he's right. I know I've just said that they shouldn't be remaking the PT, but if they did they could go in completely different directions to what Lucas did.

The endgame would be the same, natch, but imagine if Anakin wasn't a moppet but rather a troubled teen, and imagine if Amidala wasn't a 14-year-old elected 'queen' of her people but a young senator who's suddenly become leader after her planet's elders get wiped out. And imagine if they didn't all talk like ****ing robots because Lucas still thinks we're in 1936.

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I dig what you're saying, but I'm not really arguing the point that they should be remaking them, in which case there would definitely be some sort of audience fatigue because of the proximity of the projects. *cough* Spider-Man *cough* No, it's more that prequels can expand and enrich our ideas of who these characters are, and while the big payoff is always hanging there it's only a miniscule part of the story.

And it's funny you should say that so much of what happens in the PT was decided in the OT, because one of the complaints I always hear about the PT is that a lot of it doesn't carry a great deal of importance re: the OT. Lucas himself said something like 20% of the story was in the first two movies and the other 80% was in Sith, i.e. there's a lot of filler, and he's right. I know I've just said that they shouldn't be remaking the PT, but if they did they could go in completely different directions to what Lucas did.

The engame would be the same, natch, but imagine if Anakin wasn't a moppet but rather a troubled teen, and imagine if Amidala wasn't a 14-year-old elected 'queen' of her people but a young senator who's suddenly become leader after her planet's elders get wiped out. And imagine if they didn't all talk like ****ing robots because Lucas still thinks we're in 1936.

Haha! I do agree with you that a completely different direction could be fun (and that I and II would be the easiest ones to do this with). I'm not arguing against remaking them either. I'd sure as hell go see them. But I am against the idea of remaking roughly the same movies, just doing it better. People seem to like Mace Windu, Qui-gon, Palpatine/Sidious, the Clone Wars, etc. so elements of those would likely carry over while the parts that people didn't care for (I don't need to name them ) would be "fixed." If a remake were to happen, I'd just prefer a totally blank slate in which the sequels branched off from the first film, as nature intended. Making another PT to fit with the OT, and all of the internet discussion that would inevitably follow, would make me feel like the last 15 years or so of Star Wars just rewound. It would feel redundant, like reliving high school or something.....but on the internet!

[Rambaldi47]

One of the main flaws of the PT is that Lucas wrote them and then tried to edit the OT to fit them, when he should have written the prequels based on what he set up in the OT. That, and make Anakin a tough force to be reckoned with. I didn't believe for one second that the prequel Anakin would become the badass Darth Vader. I've always thought that Anakin should have been written like the young Darth Bane was. The DB trilogy is a great set of books. Reading it, I felt like this was how Anakin should have become Darth Vader, only with a bit more sympathy. I've also always believed that the emotional core should NOT have been Anakin & Padme's love, but the friendship of Anakin & Obi-Wan and how it deteriorated.

As far as the OT plotholes go, yes there are plenty, but the movies have so much else going for them that you don't really fixate on them as much.

[kemcha]

I caught this video over on Slashfilm but it's so hilarious, I had to share it. It's this English guy ranting on about the Jedi Academy feature at Disneyworld. You guys got to see this, it's hilarious as hell:

This Is Only a Test: Garry Whitta on Disney's Jedi Training Academy - YouTube

[MifuneFan]

That's possibly the unfunniest thing I've watched in months.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

That's possibly the unfunniest thing I've watched in months.

[kemcha]

Perhaps, but it's a stupid kinda funny ... I like the bit on the kids ... had me rolling. Kick Vader in the nuts ... ahahahaha

[Astro Zombie]

The video ruins it. If it was just the audio it might have been funnier.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I caught this video over on Slashfilm but it's so hilarious, I had to share it. It's this English guy ranting on about the Jedi Academy feature at Disneyworld. You guys got to see this, it's hilarious as hell:

This Is Only a Test: Garry Whitta on Disney's Jedi Training Academy - YouTube

That whole plant kid thing, I'd totally do that if I worked at Disney World

[kemcha]

You know it. BTW, if you had noticed, the guy doing the rant in that video is the same guy who's writing that Star Wars spin-off movie that Gareth Edwards is directing for Disney.

[Bickle76]

Originally Posted by Rambaldi47

One of the main flaws of the PT is that Lucas wrote them

You could of stopped there. At his own admission; he hates writing and would opt to pay someone else to write for him.

[BLUgrass]

I love all of these movies. As a child I would watch the OT on TV or on trips and fell in love with it. Phantom Menace came out when I was 15 and I remember being blown away in the theater; it was so visually stunning. So my childhood was filled with the OT and my teenage years were filled with the PT; they both feel like the Star Wars I grew up with.

My main gripe about the PT is Anakin. HC is a decent enough actor now, but wow he was kind of painful to watch. I always figured Anakin to be more of an emotional mess. Maybe HC was trying to pull off a teen/young guy trying to contain his emotions while having them simmering just below the surface, but I never bought it. I would've liked to see someone who was almost bipolar in nature with severe peeks and valleys - maybe keeping the violent/angry/depressed outbursts private while getting a little too caught up in his enjoyment publicly. SOMETHING that made me feel like his emotions were a major issue for his turning to the dark side.

I dunno thats just me.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Originally Posted by jonschmidt

I love all of these movies. As a child I would watch the OT on TV or on trips and fell in love with it. Phantom Menace came out when I was 15 and I remember being blown away in the theater; it was so visually stunning. So my childhood was filled with the OT and my teenage years were filled with the PT; they both feel like the Star Wars I grew up with.

My main gripe about the PT is Anakin. HC is a decent enough actor now, but wow he was kind of painful to watch. I always figured Anakin to be more of an emotional mess. Maybe HC was trying to pull off a teen/young guy trying to contain his emotions while having them simmering just below the surface, but I never bought it. I would've liked to see someone who was almost bipolar in nature with severe peeks and valleys - maybe keeping the violent/angry/depressed outbursts private while getting a little too caught up in his enjoyment publicly. SOMETHING that made me feel like his emotions were a major issue for his turning to the dark side.

I dunno thats just me.

I think the Anakin we got was an emotional mess, especially in ROS. He was weird, angry, and whiny. Not at all how I imagined it. I'll always maintain that Anakin should have been older (the same age as Luke in the first prequel film would have been perfect). He should have been a normal guy, a kind man who's only faults were lack of patience and a bit of impulsiveness and recklessness. Someone who meant well but jumped into a brand new lifestyle he wasn't ready for and got in over his head. Instead we went from a nice, helpful little kid (who was still annoying as **** but whatever) to kind of a nasty, arrogant jerk who had some serious social problems. Oh well. But I really think Anakin should have been a good man, not a bipolar ticking time bomb or some Omen like kid who was just evil.

[BLUgrass]

Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes

I think the Anakin we got was an emotional mess, especially in ROS. He was weird, angry, and whiny. Not at all how I imagined it. I'll always maintain that Anakin should have been older (the same age as Luke in the first prequel film would have been perfect). He should have been a normal guy, a kind man who's only faults were lack of patience and a bit of impulsiveness and recklessness. Someone who meant well but jumped into a brand new lifestyle he wasn't ready for and got in over his head. Instead we went from a nice, helpful little kid (who was still annoying as **** but whatever) to kind of a nasty, arrogant jerk who had some serious social problems. Oh well. But I really think Anakin should have been a good man, not a bipolar ticking time bomb or some Omen like kid who was just evil.

Yes I absolutely see your points. I guess I just didn't like how whiny he was; that just rubs me the wrong way and just made him unlikable to me. I wanted to see something that made me really want to like him and make it feel more tragic when he does turn. An everyman like you described would have done that for me.

I guess I was describing a different way to go with a clearly disturbed guy. That wouldn't make him so likable but I guess to me it would have made him more interesting. I do prefer your version though now that I think about it. I just found the Anakin that we got as annoying and bland for the most part; and I didn't dislike the character, I just felt kind of indifferent. It felt like rather than being with him for the ride, knowing what was going to come, I felt like I was just waiting for the breaking point. When it did finally happen, I was satisfied and like pre black mask Vader

[rdm5777]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Have you seen S5? Don't click if you haven't:

[Show spoiler] Well, you know how Ahsoka gets framed for a crime she didn't commit and she walks off into the sunset having quit the Jedi Order? That's basically it for the character, S6 included, and that's where they needed to be IMO because she's not even referenced in Ep III.

She's out of the way, and, as much as I like her, not having her there in S6 makes them episodes feel all the more 'movie like' in terms of the character dynamics. And because she's left the Order she may well have survived the purge, so I wouldn't bet against seeing her again in Rebels...

I like how you say don't click if you haven't seen S5 and then sneak in a little info on S6 as well...

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by jonschmidt

Yes I absolutely see your points. I guess I just didn't like how whiny he was; that just rubs me the wrong way and just made him unlikable to me. I wanted to see something that made me really want to like him and make it feel more tragic when he does turn. An everyman like you described would have done that for me.

I guess I was describing a different way to go with a clearly disturbed guy. That wouldn't make him so likable but I guess to me it would have made him more interesting. I do prefer your version though now that I think about it. I just found the Anakin that we got as annoying and bland for the most part; and I didn't dislike the character, I just felt kind of indifferent. It felt like rather than being with him for the ride, knowing what was going to come, I felt like I was just waiting for the breaking point. When it did finally happen, I was satisfied and like pre black mask Vader

The problem with the PT IMHO was two fold. First there was no connection at all with any of the characters to it's audience or to each other for that matter. Take Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship for example. We never seen anything happen on screen to see a bond in that relationship. All we hear are "stories" that supposedly happened to them off screen like the nest of Gundark's etc. From the moment they are together in Clones until Sith all we see them onscreen doing is arguing or Anakin's rebellious attitude. There is never a growing bond like we had with say Luke and Han through the first three films. The love story between Anakin and Padme was handled just terribly starting with the non chemistry that the two actors had with each other. Not once did I ever feel that those two were really in love.

Secondly there is just too much scientific and political garbage thrown at the audience that you never had in the OT.

Midichlorian's? Really? Do we really need to know how the force works? Wasn't it just enough to know that it was more of a religious thing from the OT, some had it others didn't. Embargo's? Trade Disputes? All of that could have been handled so much differently and just brushed over to keep the pace moving. He was trying to make it this complicated thing but at the same time "forcing" it to cater to kids with terrible idea's like Jar Jar Binks. Really a stupid Gungan was made a senator and gave away the keys to the kingdom? Really?

A few minor issues for me was a pod race that took up how much screen time? A cool and interesting character like Darth Maul is never fleshed out at all and we hardly even saw him. General Grievous again a cool character that was crammed into a story with no room for him who we never get to know really, see a few times and then poof gone. The PT started off bad and by Sith was a hot mess in a lot of ways. I really liked Maul, and Ewan was the perfect young Obi Wan and Qui Gon another cool character.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by rdm5777

I like how you say don't click if you haven't seen S5 and then sneak in a little info on S6 as well...

I did that because it's practically a reverse spoiler re: Ahsoka in S6

[Show spoiler]i.e. she's not seen again, apart from a very brief appearance in Yoda's Force vision

but I mentioned S5 because I certainly didn't want to spoil that for anyone. Dave Filoni said that he still had plans for the character when Disney pulled the plug on the series, but as it happens I think the way they've left it is perfect.

[kemcha]

I don't care what anyone says. I love all six of the movies. For those who hate on the Special Edition version of the original trilogy, I can only say this: I understand your complaints about the films and while I probably would appreciate the original theatrical versions, the Special Editions just enhance my original experience. The upgraded audio, special effects and whatnot, those films are still in there, there are just upgraded options to those films.

To those who hate on the prequels, while they will never be better than the original trilogy, I do still enjoy them, because they fill in the missing gap of the story for the origin of Darth Vader, how the Jedi Knights were annihilated, and how Palpatine became the emperor. Believe it or not, but all six films tell one complete story.

The only thing that's missing from the original trilogy is the 'Han Shot First' scene and my wisdh that Lucas would include the original Biggs and Luke Tatooine scene that was cut from the first film.