Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Vlad Draculi]

Yes, BUT

[Show spoiler]if you don't know the movies at all, you won't expect Anakin turning into Vader, so that is just as much of a surprise as Vader telling Luke he is his dad.

[JTKenobi]

Originally Posted by ernest rister

4,5,1,2,3,6

yes.

+2

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Vlad Draculi

Yes, BUT

[Show spoiler]if you don't know the movies at all, you won't expect Anakin turning into Vader, so that is just as much of a surprise as Vader telling Luke he is his dad.

You won't expect Anakin becoming evil to save his wife? That's as big of a surprise as finding out a mass murderer is your father?

Naah, going to have to disagree on that.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

You won't expect Anakin becoming evil to save his wife? That's as big of a surprise as finding out a mass murderer is your father?

Naah, going to have to disagree on that.

Except

[Show spoiler]Anakin

is nowhere near as

[Show spoiler]infamous

or as big a

[Show spoiler]Mass Murderer

as

[Show spoiler]Count Dooku

or even

[Show spoiler]General Grevious

.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Except

[Show spoiler]Anakin

is nowhere near as

[Show spoiler]infamous

or as big a

[Show spoiler]Mass Murderer

as

[Show spoiler]Count Dooku

or even

[Show spoiler]General Grevious

.

Do we ever see Dooku or Greivous personally kill anyone? Greivous' screen time is devoted to him either running away and escaping, Dooku rats out Palpatine to Kenobi, but Kenobi doesn't believe him, and no one acts on this tidbit. The screenplays for the Prequel films are a jumble, almost unfocused. Sound concepts and ideas, but the execution and expression is lacking.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Do we ever see Dooku or Greivous personally kill anyone? Greivous' screen time is devoted to him either running away and escaping, Dooku rats out Palpatine to Kenobi, but Kenobi doesn't believe him, and no one acts on this tidbit.

Dooku only said that the Senate was controlled by a Sith to get Obi-Wan to join him.
I also think that Dooku wouldn't have said anything without Sidious's knowledge or okay.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Dooku only said that the Senate was controlled by a Sith to get Obi-Wan to join him.
I also think that Dooku wouldn't have said anything without Sidious's knowledge or okay.

"Hey -- you know your Senate is controlled by a Sith Lord?"
"I don't believe you."
"Yeah, well, it's true. You should join my side."
"Nope."
"Sucks to be you. Later."

(two days later)

"Yeah, so, Dooku said Palpatine was a Sith Lord."
"Dooku says lots of things. Hey, did you hear that while you were away, Palpatine was given emergency powers over the rule of the Senate, and we're now in some giant war?"
"Yeah, funny coincidence, right? Hey, did you hear a dead Jedi ordered the Clone Army and deleted the information about the planet where they're being created from the information banks?"
"Well, that's weird, but thank goodness Palpatine got control of those things so we can now go fight this war."
"Maybe we should investigate?"
"Too busy. Gotta go fight robots."
"Okay. See ya, Bro."

This is almost impenetrably stupid story logic.

[Vlad Draculi]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

You won't expect Anakin becoming evil to save his wife? That's as big of a surprise as finding out a mass murderer is your father?

Naah, going to have to disagree on that.

It's his decent into the dark side. Look, you need to think of it from a different perspective. You are letting your hate towards the PT make a biased opinion. the prequels have their issues, yes, but there are just as many surprises in there if you were seeing them for the first time WITHOUT the OT.

Until we actually get to speak with someone who has watched them in chronological order without any prior knowledge of the series, we won't really know how well they are or are not. And that is the problem with prequels in general. You know what is going to happen as there are no surprises.

[GuruAskew]

There are only two valid orders: chronological and release order. None of this nonsense where you interrupt one trilogy to watch another. How can anyone suggest that its a good idea storytelling-wise to introduce a set of characters for two films and then set them aside for an entire trilogy of movies that is itself longer than the first trilogy? That is literally insane. And the whole point of it is that it saves the "I am your father" secret for new viewers but it still blows the "there is another Skywalker" secret.

It's fundamentally flawed. Either watch them in chronological order and know that those secrets are going to be revealed or watch them in release order and deal with the fact that doesn't have a happy ending. Those two methods still actually have some degree of logic and sense behind them.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Vlad Draculi

It's his decent into the dark side. Look, you need to think of it from a different perspective. You are letting your hate towards the PT make a biased opinion. the prequels have their issues, yes, but there are just as many surprises in there if you were seeing them for the first time WITHOUT the OT.

Until we actually get to speak with someone who has watched them in chronological order without any prior knowledge of the series, we won't really know how well they are or are not. And that is the problem with prequels in general. You know what is going to happen as there are no surprises.

The Godfather: Part 2 (5/8) Movie CLIP - Sicilian Revenge (1974) HD - YouTube

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

There are only two valid orders: chronological and release order. None of this nonsense where you interrupt one trilogy to watch another. How can anyone suggest that its a good idea storytelling-wise to introduce a set of characters for two films and then set them aside for an entire trilogy of movies that is itself longer than the first trilogy? That is literally insane. And the whole point of it is that it saves the "I am your father" secret for new viewers but it still blows the "there is another Skywalker" secret.

It's fundamentally flawed. Either watch them in chronological order and know that those secrets are going to be revealed or watch them in release order and deal with the fact that doesn't have a happy ending. Those two methods still actually have some degree of logic and sense behind them.

It only moves the "there is another Skywalker" surprise to Episode 3, and you follow that immediately with Jedi.

[GuruAskew]

By that reasoning it only moves the "I am your father" ending to 3 too. No different. It preserves one and ruins the other.

[GuruAskew]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The Godfather: Part 2 (5/8) Movie CLIP - Sicilian Revenge (1974) HD - YouTube

Don't even try comparing arguably the only successful example of a sequel/prequel combo to some ridiculous fan-made SW order.

It's flawed regardless. How long are you away from the Michael story at any given time? 30 minutes? And you're still seeing characters you're familiar with. It's nothing like plunging viewers into 7 hours of prequels 2/3rds of the way into the trilogy.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Love fans telling other fans what's valid. Last time I checked, people were free to watch the movies in any order they please.

[GuruAskew]

They are. You're entitled to decide to watch The Wrath of Khan instead of Return of the Jedi if that's what you wanna watch. Doesn't mean it's a valid way to experience the series. You might prefer to watch the Bourne movies over the Daniel Craig Bonds. Doesn't mean watching them after "Die Another Day" is a valid Bond marathon.

Not only does the ridiculous prequel flashback order come from some anonymous internet nobody, it's also demonstrably inconsistent and excruciatingly-paced.

You'd be laughed out if the crappiest writing class in the world if you wrote a story that veered off course into a flashback that is twice as long as the story proper up to that point. Say what you want about Lucas but stuff like that makes him look like Shakespeare.

[rickah88]

I just watch all 6 episodes, on blu-ray, and I'm quite happy.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Love fans telling other fans what's valid. Last time I checked, people were free to watch the movies in any order they please.

I can't see Guru's posts (god bless the ignore list) but I can tell you this: do NOT suggest ****ing with the running order of anything ever, because he'll burn you for it.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

Don't even try comparing arguably the only successful example of a sequel/prequel combo to some ridiculous fan-made SW order.

It's flawed regardless. How long are you away from the Michael story at any given time? 30 minutes? And you're still seeing characters you're familiar with. It's nothing like plunging viewers into 7 hours of prequels 2/3rds of the way into the trilogy.

I didn't write Star Wars -- it's just a proposal on how to fix it. Because Lucas didn't follow through on the clues in Episode 1 revealing Anakin was created by the Sith, you don't really need Episodes 1 and 2 at all, and people can just watch them in the order of 4, 5, 3, 6 if they so choose. You really don't lose anything of substance, other than the Stormtroopers as clones.

[GuruAskew]

Star Wars isn't anything of substance. It's harmless fluff from beginning to end no matter how you watch it. But interrupting one trilogy for another is bad "writing" no matter how you look at it.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The screenplays for the Prequel films are a jumble, almost unfocused. Sound concepts and ideas, but the execution and expression is lacking.

The most obvious reason for this is because Lucas knew how he wanted to get things started, and knew how things had to wrap up at the end, but for 25 years apparently never gave any thought about connecting the dots in between. And since he's creatively working alone he has to go into production with what's essentially first draft material.