Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

Padme's premature death in EpIII is not rectified by the UOT or Special Editions. It's rectified by not killing her off in epIII!

Tho Stvn1974 is right, they could reveal in Ep VII that she faked her death, although I'm not sure they'd really have a reason to even mention it.

Back in high school in the early 90s my best friend and I watched the Trilogy at least once a month. He moved away in grade 11 so we'd call a couple times a month to compare notes on things we noticed or ideas we had. Well I had this crazy theory that Luke and Leia's mother may have been a Jedi or at least had some connection with the Force. That would explain why Luke especially was so strong with the Force. Ben took Luke to Tatooine and she had taken Leia to Alderaan. Maybe she was originally from there or had family there. This would explain how Leia knew her "real mother". During the Jedi purge her connection with the Force would have made it easier to find her. I don't remember which expanded universe novels mentioned it and I forget how but Vader was able to track down Force users (maybe Heir to the Empire? In 94 there wasn't much for the EU). So her Force connection made her a danger to Leia and she left her in the care of Bail Organa (whom she may have been related to, or even had a relationship with). Then she either: A) left and hid out somewhere or B) killed herself to protect her daughter. B seems a little unlikely but it was still a theory. This would explain the line "She died when I was very young." Either way, Leia would have been told she died to explain her absence and to quell any desire to search for her. I told this theory to my friends and they all found it interesting. Of course that was all proven wrong when the PT came out.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

JJ Abrams and the writing crew have the chance to fix many of the plot holes and continuity errors starting with their Episode. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing.

They might know what they're doing, but they're going to begin the story 20 or 30 years after Episode VI and I doubt very much that they're going to look back in any way whatsoever. So they can't fix any of the plot holes unless they have Luke say something like, "I always thought that Vader was X, but now that I've found the Jedi archives, I've discovered it was Y". They can't do any flashbacks or time-travel ridiculousness because the actors are too old to play their younger selves which means they also can't do any revisionism.

My hope is that they develop something really new about the classic characters and it's not simply some new threat to peace like some new Sith Lord with a deep articulated voice who wants to conquer the galaxy and restore the Empire for no apparent logical reason.

I would have loved to see an older Luke who has rejected the Jedi teachings after thinking back, perhaps learning more about how Anakin became Vader and realizing that the Jedi did everything wrong, but perhaps having to return to those teachings when there's some new threat to the galaxy for which he takes on a new apprentice.

But I think the new story is going to be a lot more straightforward than that.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

They can't do any flashbacks or time-travel ridiculousness because the actors are too old to play their younger selves which means they also can't do any revisionism.

[Show spoiler]I've read they are doing a few flashbacks, supposedly of a young (I don't know how young) Leia meets Vader for the first time, just played by different actors. I say it could be good.

[Jakdonark]

I don't think I kept any of those old notes. It would be interesting to see what we had noticed back then and if any if our theories were accurate.

Another thing was the underground temple on Dagobah. I remember thinking it may have been a Sith temple. I thought they would make some reference to it in the PT but they never did. I only ever read a few of the EU novels when they first came out in the early 90s, and I don't remember any reference to the temple specifically, just that the cave area entrance was shrouded by the Dark Side due to a horrible incident happening there. That's why Yoda chose it to hide from Vader's search. Same with Ben on Tatooine, he found an area shrouded by the Dark Side (that was referenced in an early EU book, but no more detail). After seeing Eps II my theory was that the slaughter of the Sandpeople is what created the shroud. Was that ever explained anywhere? If Lucas actually had that early fact in his mind when he wrote that scene I would really give him some credit, or at least to whoever might have suggested it to him. More likely it was just a coincidence.

[Geoff D]

Obi-Wan hid on Tatooine because it's at the arse end of space. In the same way that "the Republic doesn't exist out here" (according to Shmi in TPM) the Empire's influence is also curtailed thanks to the Hutts. People love to counter with "it's Vader's home planet!", but it holds bad memories for him, so the last thing he'd do is swing by the homestead for old times sake. The same thing applies to Luke running around with the Skywalker name; perhaps if he'd applied for the Academy like he wanted to then there would've been......trouble, otherwise it simply didn't matter because there were no Imperials around to take notice.

[riddlerfiddler]

I've always felt the best way to watch the series is 4,5,3 and then finish with 6. This cuts out a lot of the fat created by the first two episodes (and that unholy abomination named Jar Jar Binks), and it keeps the story about the Skywalkers. This also preserves a lot of the plot developments that would be spoiled if you watched the prequel trilogy first. And by seeing exactly how Anakin fell before you see his redemption, it makes the actual redemption in Return of the Jedi that much better.

Originally Posted by Falaskan

Padme's premature death in EpIII is not rectified by the UOT or Special Editions. It's rectified by not killing her off in epIII!

Tho Stvn1974 is right, they could reveal in Ep VII that she faked her death, although I'm not sure they'd really have a reason to even mention it.

I know Star Wars is sometimes considered a space opera, but this plot point would turn it into a soap opera.

[Geoff D]

I'm definitely integrating The Clone Wars S6 into my viewing the next time I'm on a full Saga run-through. Watching all of TCW between eps II and III is too much to maintain the momentum of the films, but S6 works so well because it addresses many of the hanging plot points between II and III AND it also lays the groundwork for certain developments between III and IV.

I do like Ep I but one of my main criticisms of it within the Saga is how disconnected it feels from the two movies that follow it, in terms of the characters, the tone and even the look of the show. Seeing how TCW has greatly enriched my enjoyment of the arcs in eps II and III, it's a shame that there wasn't a similar bridging series between I and II.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Obi-Wan hid on Tatooine because it's at the arse end of space. In the same way that "the Republic doesn't exist out here" (according to Shmi in TPM) the Empire's influence is also curtailed thanks to the Hutts. People love to counter with "it's Vader's home planet!", but it holds bad memories for him, so the last thing he'd do is swing by the homestead for old times sake. The same thing applies to Luke running around with the Skywalker name; perhaps if he'd applied for the Academy like he wanted to then there would've been......trouble, otherwise it simply didn't matter because there were no Imperials around to take notice.

This is all true and definitely factors, not to mention that Owen and Beru were the closest "family" that Luke had. But it was stated specifically in one of the early novels, maybe the Jedi Academy trilogy, that Ben hid out there because of an area of Dark Side shrouding. I don't know how many of those first novels are still considered canon, especially considering how much was ignored and changed from the actual movies, but for me, that is the strongest reason Ben was there, with the Lars' second, and location the third.

When I saw Eps II in the theater and Anakin

[Show spoiler]slaughters the sandpeople

I was like, "Oh! That's what created the Dark Side pocket!" I've never read any of the recent novels or EU offshoots, so I don't know if it was ever confirmed, but seems important enough of a plot point that I don't think it was a coincidence.

[Geoff D]

Those novels are no longer part of Star Wars canon. Dagobah certainly fits with the shroud of the Dark Side concept (see - yes, you've guessed it - Clone Wars S6) but everything else is now no more important than fan fiction.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Well, let's face it. Canon is pretty much in the eye of the beholder now. What a clusterf*** Lucas has made of that.

[Jakdonark]

I was just doing some searching and the term on Wookieepedia is "Dark Side Nexus", where the long term presence or death of Dark Side users leaves behind a "shadow". It references a few locations including the cave on Dagobah, but nothing about Ben Kenobi's house or anything on Tatooine. Also the Dark Side Cave page on Wookieepedia has a number of novels and stories that made use of the location, but no mention of it being any kind of temple or man-made underground structure? They all just call it a cave? Have any of these writers even watched the movies?

Around 94-94 I made up a short story about IG-88 during the pursuit of Han Solo. Being biased of course I enjoyed it, but then the book Tales of The Bounty Hunters came along and had a completely unbelievable IG-88 story. I can't remember the details (it's been almost 20 years since I read it!), but I remember that one specifically standing out as being completely outrageous, ignoring major facts and plot points not only in ESB but also ROTJ, and I remember thinking these guys can't have even seen the movies! All the stories were like that, the same with the Tales From Jabba's Palace. I was so excited to get both and read them, but came away so disappointed. I'm not saying the writing was bad, some of them were very established authors, and I can accept a few liberties here and there. But a lot of the stories were so blantantly disregarding the movies that you could barely call them Star Wars related. It's almost like some of the writers took stories they already had and just put Star Wars characters in them. So bottom line, good stories and well written, just poorly tied into the films.

Hopefully when the new films come out, they have really paid attention to the originals when making any kind of historical reference. And if something major has to be changed, at least make some kind of a good explanation for it! Because there will be fans like me who will tear them apart!

[Petey Parker]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

I was just doing some searching and the term on Wookieepedia is "Dark Side Nexus", where the long term presence or death of Dark Side users leaves behind a "shadow". It references a few locations including the cave on Dagobah, but nothing about Ben Kenobi's house or anything on Tatooine. Also the Dark Side Cave page on Wookieepedia has a number of novels and stories that made use of the location, but no mention of it being any kind of temple or man-made underground structure? They all just call it a cave? Have any of these writers even watched the movies?

Around 94-94 I made up a short story about IG-88 during the pursuit of Han Solo. Being biased of course I enjoyed it, but then the book Tales of The Bounty Hunters came along and had a completely unbelievable IG-88 story. I can't remember the details (it's been almost 20 years since I read it!), but I remember that one specifically standing out as being completely outrageous, ignoring major facts and plot points not only in ESB but also ROTJ, and I remember thinking these guys can't have even seen the movies! All the stories were like that, the same with the Tales From Jabba's Palace. I was so excited to get both and read them, but came away so disappointed. I'm not saying the writing was bad, some of them were very established authors, and I can accept a few liberties here and there. But a lot of the stories were so blantantly disregarding the movies that you could barely call them Star Wars related. It's almost like some of the writers took stories they already had and just put Star Wars characters in them. So bottom line, good stories and well written, just poorly tied into the films.

Hopefully when the new films come out, they have really paid attention to the originals when making any kind of historical reference. And if something major has to be changed, at least make some kind of a good explanation for it! Because there will be fans like me who will tear them apart!

I thought it was funny that in Tales From Jabba's Palace one of the author's gave a story to explain the human Jabba from Episode IV that got cut out of the film. It was something like he was someone that Jabba sent around to do business for him. Of course the special edition and later the prequels would end up negating that story with the addition of Jabba and the Hutt race.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

I thought it was funny that in Tales From Jabba's Palace one of the author's gave a story to explain the human Jabba from Episode IV that got cut out of the film. It was something like he was someone that Jabba sent around to do business for him. Of course the special edition and later the prequels would end up negating that story with the addition of Jabba and the Hutt race.

I think that was Heater? I don't recall the details of the story but at least that one was based off an established (albeit deleted scene) and I thought that one was okay. I forget the rest, but I think one had one of the Klaatu guys hanging around Jabba's Palace while they all went out and the barge blew up, so he survived, but in the movie he was on the barge when it blew up!

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

JJ Abrams and the writing crew have the chance to fix many of the plot holes and continuity errors starting with their Episode. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

You should really find a new schtick.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Obi-Wan hid on Tatooine because it's at the arse end of space. In the same way that "the Republic doesn't exist out here" (according to Shmi in TPM) the Empire's influence is also curtailed thanks to the Hutts. People love to counter with "it's Vader's home planet!", but it holds bad memories for him, so the last thing he'd do is swing by the homestead for old times sake. The same thing applies to Luke running around with the Skywalker name; perhaps if he'd applied for the Academy like he wanted to then there would've been......trouble, otherwise it simply didn't matter because there were no Imperials around to take notice.

Tatooine is one Star System away from Naboo.
He took Luke there to be raised by Owen and Beru.

I personally HATE Tatooine, it is way too overused!

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

You should really find a new schtick.

I should...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Tatooine is one Star System away from Naboo.
He took Luke there to be raised by Owen and Beru.

I personally HATE Tatooine, it is way too overused!

That may be true on a star map, but in terms of the movies - and I mean both trilogies - Tatooine is regarded as a rock that's way outside the galaxy's main sphere of influence. Even though Luke has family there, it also happens to be the perfect place for Obi-Wan to lie low anyway.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

Around 94-94 I made up a short story about IG-88 during the pursuit of Han Solo. Being biased of course I enjoyed it, but then the book Tales of The Bounty Hunters came along and had a completely unbelievable IG-88 story. I can't remember the details (it's been almost 20 years since I read it!), but I remember that one specifically standing out as being completely outrageous, ignoring major facts and plot points not only in ESB but also ROTJ, and I remember thinking these guys can't have even seen the movies! All the stories were like that, the same with the Tales From Jabba's Palace. I was so excited to get both and read them, but came away so disappointed. I'm not saying the writing was bad, some of them were very established authors, and I can accept a few liberties here and there. But a lot of the stories were so blantantly disregarding the movies that you could barely call them Star Wars related. It's almost like some of the writers took stories they already had and just put Star Wars characters in them. So bottom line, good stories and well written, just poorly tied into the films.

Hopefully when the new films come out, they have really paid attention to the originals when making any kind of historical reference. And if something major has to be changed, at least make some kind of a good explanation for it! Because there will be fans like me who will tear them apart!

I remember that IG-88 story was really stupid-- at the end, he downloads himself into the second Death Star and takes control of it, but then is destroyed shortly after when Lando blows up the core.

I liked a lot of the expanded stories of some of those background characters, but I hated the ones that tripped up things going on in the films like that.

The one that was a nightmare for the EU writers to untangle was Boba Fett. In that same Tales from the Empire anthology, his background is that he was a guy named Jaster Mareel who was a Journeyman protector and had a lot of hangups about morality. He also thought the rebellion was wrong since people should follow authority

Then there were other books about Fett with wildly different and contradictory takes on his background and personality. And this was all BEFORE Lucas totally obliterated it all with Episode II.

[Vlad Draculi]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Tatooine is one Star System away from Naboo.
He took Luke there to be raised by Owen and Beru.

I personally HATE Tatooine, it is way too overused!

Isn't funny how the best movie in the franchise does not even feature Tatooine once?