Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Just because you're a bad guy doesn't mean you're a BAD guy

I wear Leather Jackets and Ride Motorcycles.
I have scars and smoke Candy Cigarettes...
I'm totally a bad guy!

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

I wear Leather Jackets and Ride Motorcycles.
I have scars and smoke Candy Cigarettes...
I'm totally a bad guy!

you had me at motorcycles... totally evil villain material right there

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I hope they make a new Star Wars movie

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

He had hundreds of cloned bodies and kept passing his conscionsness into them as they were used up.
That Aura/Cloud after he was dropped down the shaft in RotJ was expanded upon in the Expanded Universe.

I remember back in early-mid 90s EU that's what happened to dark side users when they were killed: Jedi became Force ghosts, Dark Jedi blew up.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

I remember back in early-mid 90s EU that's what happened to dark side users when they were killed: Jedi became Force ghosts, Dark Jedi blew up.

I don't remember that.

I also hate the term, Dark Jedi.
It should be Fallen Jedi

[stvn1974]

So no new news about an UOT release today?

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

So no new news about an UOT release today?

Got a Chrystal Ball you can wave your hands over

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

I don't remember that.

I also hate the term, Dark Jedi.
It should be Fallen Jedi

What's wrong with Dark Jedi though?

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

So no new news about an UOT release today?

Was there supposed to be?

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by OptimusL

What's wrong with Dark Jedi though?

I don't know, ya know. I don't know.
I just never did...

*let's see who gets the reference...
You'll win a prize!

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

I don't remember that.

I also hate the term, Dark Jedi.
It should be Fallen Jedi

Except not all Dark Jedi were once part of the Jedi Order. It works well to describe nefarious individuals whose training was completely independent of the proper Jedi way. Even back then you had dark side factions like the Sith Empire and the Krath, etc...

Since the PT, I feel like "Sith" has more or less replaced the concept of "Dark Jedi," in the popular sense.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

Except not all Dark Jedi were once part of the Jedi Order. It works well to describe nefarious individuals whose training was completely independent of the proper Jedi way. Even back then you had dark side factions like the Sith Empire and the Krath, etc...

Since the PT, I feel like "Sith" has more or less replaced the concept of "Dark Jedi," in the popular sense.

No, ALL Dark Jedi were once part of the Jedi Order.
Just because one can use the Force, doesn't automatically make one a Jedi.

Sith use the Force, the NightSisters use the Force.
Leia can use the Force.
None of them are classified as a Jedi.

Only those trained by the Jedi Order are Jedi.

[Thomas Guycott]

Whatever you say, man.

I'm just going by what I knew at the time while reading all of this stuff.

Edit: In fact you can read the modern version of it right here.

[Show spoiler]

Dark Jedi, also known as "Fallen" Jedi, were Force-sensitives, frequently former Jedi, who chose to deny the light side of the Force or follow the dark side. Although "Dark Jedi" originally referred to a Jedi who had fallen to the dark side, it could also refer to uninitiated Force-sensitives who received no Jedi training but began their careers under another Dark Jedi. Others were simply dark-side users who did not follow the teachings of the Sith or other dark side organizations.

[sarah_wentworth]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I always felt that the Emperor had some hold on him in Sith. When he kills Dooku he is contemplating what to do and then Palpatine says "do it" and he does and then seems a bit shocked. Same with Mace Windu, Palpatine kind of makes him do it. Same thing as with Windu is that he is shocked with himself afterwards. Kind of like Palpatine is infecting him with the darkside.

Palpatine is very persuasive. like Hannibal Lecter

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

Whatever you say, man.

I'm just going by what I knew at the time while reading all of this stuff.

Edit: In fact you can read the modern version of it right here.

hmm...
ok...
though to be honest, i read every book up until the halfway point of New Jedi Order and I cannot remember any Force User that wasn't once trained by the Jedi Order or a Sith....

[sarah_wentworth]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Not really, it is me trying to rationalize the entire thing being poorly written and executed. Anakin turns so quickly and easily to the Dark Side that Palpatine probably could have done it during The Phantom Menace with ice cream.

he didn't turn as fast as Vader in ROTJ. Vader went from villain to hero in a few minutes lol

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I disagree. What's great about Sith is that EVERYONE wants a piece of Anakin. The Jedi ask him to spy on Palpatine. Palpatine asks him to spy on the Jedi. Padme asks him to influence Palpatine. In the end he's so confused that he gives in to the one man who he thinks can give him answers to his problems. I love the way he says "What have I done?!" after he disarms (heh) Mace and Palps kills him; at that point he must either give himself over fully to Palps or he'll be killed on the spot, so he chooses the dark path to save Padme at which point he really does seem to be in thrall to Palpatine. And then Palpatine drops the bombshell that he doesn't even know how to cheat death himself, so Anakin's already been betrayed in that respect.

i thought Palpatine said he and anakin could work together to figure how to cheat death. he didn't say he could already cheat death. maybe i'm mistaken

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

i thought Palpatine said he and anakin could work together to figure how to cheat death. he didn't say he could already cheat death. maybe i'm mistaken

He said both...

[Thomas Guycott]

Palpatine lies because he's a jerk.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

he didn't turn as fast as Vader in ROTJ. Vader went from villain to hero in a few minutes lol

i thought Palpatine said he and anakin could work together to figure how to cheat death. he didn't say he could already cheat death. maybe i'm mistaken

Hah! That's very true, Anakin flip-flops on the turn of a dime.

As for your second point, don't forget that in the opera scene Palpatine laid the groundwork, telling Anakin that Plagueis learned the power to cheat death and he passed everything on to his apprentice before his apprentice killed him. Then, when Palps reveals himself as a Sith Lord, he tells Anakin: "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death". There's no 'ifs' or 'buts' there, Palps is quite unequivocal about it.

Only when Anakin has actually turned does the crafty bastard then tell him that only one has learned the power to cheat death, and that if they work together they can discover the secret. I know some folks regard that as Palpatine in CYA mode, but I've always thought that he was telling Anakin exactly what he wanted to hear to get him on-side. Heck, it may even be that he needed someone with Anakin's latent power to finally crack Plagueis' secret.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hah! That's very true, Anakin flip-flops on the turn of a dime.

As for your second point, don't forget that in the opera scene Palpatine laid the groundwork, telling Anakin that Plagueis learned the power to cheat death and he passed everything on to his apprentice before his apprentice killed him. Then, when Palps reveals himself as a Sith Lord, he tells Anakin: "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death". There's no 'ifs' or 'buts' there, Palps is quite unequivocal about it.

Only when Anakin has actually turned does the crafty bastard then tell him that only one has learned the power to cheat death, and that if they work together they can discover the secret. I know some folks regard that as Palpatine in CYA mode, but I've always thought that he was telling Anakin exactly what he wanted to hear to get him on-side. Heck, it may even be that he needed someone with Anakin's latent power to finally crack Plagueis' secret.

The Plagueis Myth is one of my favorite moments in the entire Trilogy.
It opens up a whole new can of worms w/ the Sith History and the Force's possibilities.

Wasnt Palpatine hinting that he himself was the pupil that learned of the "Cheat Death" Powers? Or was that supposed to be a long, long, time ago.