Star Trek: Generations

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

I skipped the Next Gen box set because I despise both Insurrection and Nemesis.

I saw this on a HD cable channel a few times and it looked marvelous. I thought that they would NEVER release this separately. So I ordered this today along with Jesus Christ Superstar BD and a book.

.

Insurrection is the only turd IMHO of the Next Generation crew so I didn't mind the box set.

[LSZ]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

I skipped the Next Gen box set because I despise both Insurrection and Nemesis.

I saw this on a HD cable channel a few times and it looked marvelous. I thought that they would NEVER release this separately. So I ordered this today along with Jesus Christ Superstar BD and a book.

.

I'm skipping it too but I despise Nemesis (IMO, the worst overall Star Trek movie) and Generations. Insurrection was a big dull "meh" but I don't hate it.

[Phillip c. Niethe]

So, I got bored and began watching the next generation season 6 and realized that Scotty is the last surviving crew member aside from Spock. However in the episode which guest stars Scotty at that point when he is rematerialized he then makes the assumption that Admiral Kirk had brought the Enterprise out of mothballs to come save him because Riker mentions that they are from the enterprise. Which goes against the Movie Generations where Kirk is thought as Dead to the rest of the crew. While obviously this is due to the series being filmed first, it does pose a paradox. Does anyone know of any Trek canon that addressess this problem?
And if not, can we assume that the movie S.T.N.G. Generations is in fact an alternate universe in regards to the series?

[Chie Satonaka]

Originally Posted by Phillip c. Niethe

So, I got bored and began watching the next generation season 6 and realized that Scotty is the last surviving crew member aside from Spock. However in the episode which guest stars Scotty at that point when he is rematerialized he then makes the assumption that Admiral Kirk had brought the Enterprise out of mothballs to come save him because Riker mentions that they are from the enterprise. Which goes against the Movie Generations where Kirk is thought as Dead to the rest of the crew. While obviously this is due to the series being filmed first, it does pose a paradox. Does anyone know of any Trek canon that addressess this problem?
And if not, can we assume that the movie S.T.N.G. Generations is in fact an alternate universe in regards to the series?

I think the best way of looking at it is that Scotty knew he was gonna be trapped in the transporter buffer for a while. And when starfleet officers show up and rescue him and say they're from the Enterprise he probably assumed it was Kirk.

Why assume it was Kirk? He had gotten himself out of shitty situations all the time. Hell Generations wasn't even the first time he seemingly vanished. Remember the Tholian Web? Remember that Geordi and Riker were wearing new updated uniforms so some time had clearly passed. I'd imagine Scotty would have seen it as logical that Kirk returned and went looking for his former cremate.

I think Scotty by this point in his his life on the verge of retirement missed the old days and his former crewmates so he would have lepted at the idea that Kirk wasn't dead after all and had gotten the Enterprise back and was looking for him. And that the rest of the crew would have been onboard, remember his toast to the others on the holodeck.

Also Bones is probably still alive by this point. He was still alive in the pilot and no one had mentioned his death so it's hard to say.

[Phillip c. Niethe]

@ Chie, Maybe, I was never thrilled with how Kirk died and the film was good fun but now that I've found this loop hole I'm going to discount the whole film from cannon and pretend it doesn't exist. Lol, the entire series and the further Next Generation films work without it anyway. I will look to see if any comics or novels touch on the subject.

@Bolty, yeah, def. all errors in continuity = alternate reality

[milojthatch]

Originally Posted by Phillip c. Niethe

So, I...realized that Scotty is the last surviving crew member aside from Spock. However in the episode which guest stars Scotty at that point when he is rematerialized he then makes the assumption that Admiral Kirk had brought the Enterprise out of mothballs to come save him because Riker mentions that they are from the enterprise. Which goes against the Movie Generations where Kirk is thought as Dead to the rest of the crew. While obviously this is due to the series being filmed first, it does pose a paradox. Does anyone know of any Trek canon that addressess this problem?

In proper 1966-2005 canon, no, this issue is never addressed. Kirk and Scotty reunite in the William Shatter Kirk books, also known as the "Shattnerverse," which I see as canon within my own head, but officially it isn't. That's about as close as anything gets to dealing with this issue.

Originally Posted by Chie Satonaka

I think the best way of looking at it is that Scotty knew he was gonna be trapped in the transporter buffer for a while. And when starfleet officers show up and rescue him and say they're from the Enterprise he probably assumed it was Kirk...

Could be. Never count out Kirk!

Originally Posted by Bolty

And the other theory is simply that after being 75 years in a pattern buffer that he was a little bit fuzzy when he came out of it.

Yes! Also, he's older and maybe not as sharp as he used to be. This line of thinking is the answer I tend to go with.

Originally Posted by Bolty

And yes of course every continuity error indicates a alternate universe

That's a LOT of alternate universes! With Classic Trek, there were a lot of continuity errors, but it usually came from a place of A.) In the TOS days, no one thought the show would turn into a mega franchise filled with hundreds of thousands of fans that cared about such things, it was just a 60's TV show, and B.) There was a point that there were so many stories by the time we get to the end of TNG, that it was hard for the new writers that came along to know everything. That's the sad thing. In the old days they could really have use the internet and a wiki to keep everything straight, and I think back then there were more writers that would have cared and happily used such a tool. These days we do have wikis to keep up such information, and the writers don't care. It's sad.

As for Generations itself however, I think they were just too focused on getting Kirk together with Picard to pay much attention to past episodes of TOS or TNG. Honestly, in hindsight, such knowledge could have helped the TNG films. They clearly kept trying to replicate The Wrath of Kahn, but Nick Myer binged TOS before he made that film! That approach might have greatly helped the TNG films.

[Jay H.]

My favorite ST movie, by a mile.

[oddbox83]

I'd really like to see the workprint cut restored as an option. Not because it's a better film, but because it's got enough differences to be a big curio. Pigs will fly first though.

[milo bloom]

Regarding the Scotty remembering Kirk thing, I can't remember where it is but one of the writers of Generations admitted that they saw the contradiction when writing the movie but simply didn't want to pass up the chance to have James Doohan onscreen one more time.

So, the best option is as someone above said, when Scotty came out of the transporter beam his memory is a little fuzzy and he immediately thinks of his old friend Jim Kirk.

This also helps with his melancholy later in the episode of Relics, you can imagine he looked up the fates of all his old friends and saw that Kirk was never seen again after the incident with the energy ribbon and went to the holodeck to drink and grieve.

And I also would love a recut of this with a little more footage. The original DVD of this was one of my earliest DVD purchases and I played the hell out of it back in the day.

[Iron-Fisted Punk]

Originally Posted by milo bloom

Regarding the Scotty remembering Kirk thing, I can't remember where it is but one of the writers of Generations admitted that they saw the contradiction when writing the movie but simply didn't want to pass up the chance to have James Doohan onscreen one more time.

Pretty sure this was said in the audio commentary by Moore and Braga. They also said they originally wanted it to be Kirk, Spock and McCoy in the opening, but Nimoy didn’t like the script and Kelley had health issues, so it was changed to Scotty and Chekov.

[PatrynXX]

Then this movie is rather good. If you haven't I understand why you've rated it... bad... I later got Ashes of Eden and The Return in SFBC hardcover. No Deanna didn't destroy the ship. It's on who's order he's responsible :P

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by PatrynXX

Then this movie is rather good. If you haven't I understand why you've rated it... bad... I later got Ashes of Eden and The Return in SFBC hardcover. No Deanna didn't destroy the ship. It's on who's order he's responsible :P