Two subs always better than one?

[bigmod]

I recently purchased a new sub for my system. A JBL E250P (12", 250W) to replace an old Jamo SUB200 (8", 100W maybe).

I am torn between keeping both subs or just keeping the newer one.

I read that 2 subs help average the dips and peaks of bass caused by the room's acoustics. However this is usually when both subs are the same.

So to any experts or anyone that has tried two different subs, what do you recommend?

Thanks.

[bigmod]

I recently purchased a new sub for my system. A JBL E250P (12", 250W) to replace an old Jamo SUB200 (8", 100W maybe).

I am torn between keeping both subs or just keeping the newer one.

I read that 2 subs help average the dips and peaks of bass caused by the room's acoustics. However this is usually when both subs are the same.

So to any experts or anyone that has tried two different subs, what do you recommend?

Thanks.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by bigmod

I recently purchased a new sub for my system. A JBL E250P (12", 250W) to replace an old Jamo SUB200 (8", 100W maybe).

I am torn between keeping both subs or just keeping the newer one.

I read that 2 subs help average the dips and peaks of bass caused by the room's acoustics. However this is usually when both subs are the same.

So to any experts or anyone that has tried two different subs, what do you recommend?

Thanks.

I would maintain the "better" sub within your front soundstage and set it up as your primary source for your system's bass. I would then play and move the second "weaker" sub around the room to see what your ears believe is the best location to minimize or eliminate the bass voids you have. This means you might need a longer audio cable so as to allow you the ability to move the sub around.

Do you have 2 sub outs or do you plan on using a Y-splitter....just curious?

I have mine set up as such (even though they are the same sub, I would have done this if they were different, as well), and I must have played with the "other" sub, moving it around every couple of days for like a month. I am a little crazy like that, but thats me.

liquidice provided a really good link to read about sub location in his post within the Home Theater General Discussion Forum for this same question posted above. But I'll provide it here as well...

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=43669

[liquidice]

first and foremost, you need to read this thread, made by Big Daddy, which covers many topics of subwoofer placement, and location. Another great thread is here, which covers alot of DIY tweaking techniques that will improve your sound. I've been told by many, especially Jomari, that your larger sub should be placed in your front sound stage (somewhere by the wall with your tv), and the smaller should be used possibly closer to your seating location. Each sub should be calibrated seperately. What you would probably find is that the larger sub will maximize on the lower frequencies, and the smaller sub will help hit the higher frequencies. My setup is rather back-wards because of limited space where I could put my larger sub. SO, my 12" sits on a riser near the corner to my immediate right when I seated on my couch, and my 6" sub is near the front left corner, again if seated on my couch looking to that direction. So, the subs are on opposite corners. From what I've read, that is important, but of course experimentation is always welcomed. I would highly suggest reading the threads, and doing some of the tweaks we have all done to get the most out of our subs, and do that to your newest 12" sub. Then go from there. Splitting a sub (out) connection is as easy as getting a RCA Y adaptor, and splitting that from the receiver. You can get that from monoprice, or Radioshack. I bought mine from RadioShack so I'd have it immediately, and could begin experimenting. Good luck, let us know what you think of the threads I linked above by responding on those particular thread. The first one will keep you occupied for sometime, but totally worth the read.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by bigmod

I recently purchased a new sub for my system. A JBL E250P (12", 250W) to replace an old Jamo SUB200 (8", 100W maybe).

I am torn between keeping both subs or just keeping the newer one.

I read that 2 subs help average the dips and peaks of bass caused by the room's acoustics. However this is usually when both subs are the same.

So to any experts or anyone that has tried two different subs, what do you recommend?

Thanks.

Really no need to double post, as I provided a reply within the Audio Theory Forum for your same question above....just an FYI.

EDIT: .....looks like you got your post up before mine ice! Sorry!!

[liquidice]

just caught that, couldn't figure out why I didn't see my response on the 'other' one asking the same question. This will most likely be moved soon anyways to the "subwoofer" thread.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by liquidice

just caught that, couldn't figure out why I didn't see my response on the 'other' one asking the same question. This will most likely be moved soon anyways to the "subwoofer" thread.

I was thinking the same thing, I'm sure this will be moved...but I do agree 100% with your post anyway!

[Carlsberg19]

Interesting...i have a "poorer" subwoofer that came with my surround sound set up, and i also have the A2-300 subwoofer that i use, i was considering using the "poorer" sub also as i have a y adapter i am just a little concerned about mixing two different make subs together, might sound bad or something..

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Carlsberg19

Interesting...i have a "poorer" subwoofer that came with my surround sound set up, and i also have the A2-300 subwoofer that i use, i was considering using the "poorer" sub also as i have a y adapter i am just a little concerned about mixing two different make subs together, might sound bad or something..

If set up properly, the A2-300 is a beast and can easily handle your room, I'm sure. Then the "poorer" sub could compliment the higher bass db's if placed correctly as well. You won't find out unless you try. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[mustang-gt-2002]

well I have four subs. two are 8" YAMAHA and two are 12" infinity. the infinity's replaced my YAMAHA's and the YAMAHA's are now in back on the surround sound cables. I love it I get big BOOMS from the surround now

[bigmod]

Thanks all for your replies.
I already have the 12" next to my front speakers.
And my A/V receiver is a Yamaha RX-V663 that has 2 sub outs.

I will try moving the 8" around and will share the results.
Thanks

[bigmod]

Thanks all for your replies.
I already have the 12" next to my front speakers.
And my A/V receiver is a Yamaha RX-V663 that has 2 sub outs.

I will try moving the 8" around and will share the results.
Thanks

[liquidice]

by far the best way to get your speakers into position is doing the "subwoofer crawl". Jomari told me about this months ago, and it is a fantastic way to get the placement right. In your case, your probably not going to want to move your 12" around, but doing this with your 8" will ensure it's put in a place that you'll get the best response from while in your seated viewing place.

[jomari]

simply put,
a purist would rather have all the subs to be identical to each other.
they'd also want you to have the proper placement of each subwoofer, as well as the seating position, based on the room modes present.
cancellations and reinforcements are cause of concerns when you have played
a. the room mode.
b. seating position.
c. subwoofers characters

its like having two different front left and right speakers.

Personally?

with a single subwoofer, you are basically having one speaker handling the lower frequencies. we've addressed the headaches of multiple lower frequencies in a room via crossover settings in the receiver, having the subwoofer solely reproducing all the lower frequencies.

with multiple subwoofers, you are trying to recreate that same signal from two different sources. to further complicate that, two UNIDENTICAL sources. so that "SONIC boom" you want, may sound differently compared to a single properly placed subwoofer.

in a good situation, have have that "Sonic Boom" reproduced evenly in the room, without any cancellation nor dips.

in a bad situation, that "sonic boom" may dissipate, better yet, be cancelled in certain areas of the room. heck even echo depending on the two subs.

1. consider the room modes you have
2. as liquidice mentioned, MOST people prefer to have the better/upgrade sub, at the front, as the 'smaller' one at the back of the room. see sticky for future details.
3. calibrate. rinse. repeat. repeat a LOT.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by bigmod

I recently purchased a new sub for my system. A JBL E250P (12", 250W) to replace an old Jamo SUB200 (8", 100W maybe).

I am torn between keeping both subs or just keeping the newer one.

I read that 2 subs help average the dips and peaks of bass caused by the room's acoustics. However this is usually when both subs are the same.

So to any experts or anyone that has tried two different subs, what do you recommend?

Thanks.

PUT THE BIGGER SUB UP FRONT IN A CORNER, A COUPLE OF FEET AWAY FROM THE WALLS. PUT THE SMALLER SUB ON THE SIDE OR BEHIND YOUR LISTENING CHAIR/SOFA.

ADJUST THEIR LEVELS VERY CAREFULLY SO THAT ONE SUBWOOFER DOES NOT OVERPOWER THE OTHER ONE. THIS WAY, THE BIGGER SUB UP FRONT WILL GIVE YOU DEEPER AND LOWER FREQUENCY BASS SOUND AND THE SMALLER SUB NEXT TO YOUR SEAT WILL GIVE YOU UPPER FREQUENCY BASS SOUND.

WARNING: In a few months, you will go deaf. However, you will live in Bass Heaven before that happens.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by liquidice

by far the best way to get your speakers into position is doing the "subwoofer crawl". Jomari told me about this months ago, and it is a fantastic way to get the placement right. In your case, your probably not going to want to move your 12" around, but doing this with your 8" will ensure it's put in a place that you'll get the best response from while in your seated viewing place.

Liquidice,

If you want to go one step further, go to A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II): Standing Waves & Room Modes. Between 1/3 to 1/2 down, you will see expanation and the link to room crawl video from Axiom. If you have access to Excel, there is demonstration of how to graph your results with the help of test tones and get the best and flattest bass frequency response.

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Liquidice,

If you want to go one step further, go to A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II): Standing Waves & Room Modes. Between 1/3 to 1/2 down, you will see expanation and the link to room crawl video from Axiom. If you have access to Excel, there is demonstration of how to graph your results with the help of test tones and get the best and flattest bass frequency response.

holy crap... just read that link,,, and read the links provided.. ofcourse not all of them,,, not while driving..lol.. j/k

seriously though,, the link that helped the most in putting all of this together in almost layman terms was here.. http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

very helpful.. and that video instruction by axiom.. crawling for bass... ... although its an old concept .. (something that was told to me long ago).. its still holds true today..


i actually just looked at more.. and there are others that are easier to understand.. still good reads..

[jomari]

Originally Posted by jaejw1

holy crap... just read that link,,, and read the links provided.. ofcourse not all of them,,, not while driving..lol.. j/k

seriously though,, the link that helped the most in putting all of this together in almost layman terms was here.. http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

very helpful.. and that video instruction by axiom.. crawling for bass... ... although its an old concept .. (something that was told to me long ago).. its still holds true today..


i actually just looked at more.. and there are others that are easier to understand.. still good reads..

crawl theory still holds true.

man, im surprised Jae, no one else around here mentioned the Harman white papers except you. great read, interestingly difficult to comprehend the first time around, but definitely a great read.

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by jomari

crawl theory still holds true.

man, im surprised Jae, no one else around here mentioned the Harman white papers except you. great read, interestingly difficult to comprehend the first time around, but definitely a great read.

its been a long time since i looked at all that stuff (been out of car audio for over 5 years).. but i like how they did it.. showing all the different ways one can dump subs in their theater.. and then showing the different effects..

[bigmod]

The Harman paper is great

And the crawl is very interesting but not easy to do when a giant couch is your seating position