Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I would LOVE to get the 1997 cuts on Blu-ray.

And yes, I also see it the same way as motorheadache: the original originals can be viewed as their own thing, whereas the tweaked versions (from 2004 onwards) are very much in service of the wider 'Saga'. On one rewatch a few years ago I did the unaltered OT, the PT, then the rejigged OT and it worked pretty well.

It's a shame that those versions were never released on DVD. Well officially that is.

The docs on the bonus DVD that come with trilogy set use the 1997 masters and they actually look pretty decent.

The way I watch the films depends mainly on whether I want to watch the PT or not.

If I do I'll watch the newer versions and go through them in episode order like Lucas intended but if I don't I'll watch the theatrical versions.

If I'm feeling really adventurous I'll pop in the 1997 versions and just watch those and stop there seeing as they don't tie into the PT.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Seems legit.



I watched the DVD of TPM the other week whilst I was watching the DVD cuts of the other films. My god what a horrible transfer. The BD, even though it's DNR'ed absolutely s**ts all over it.

EE, awful colour timing, cropping, print damage...

An absolute disaster.

DVDs from 2001 don't hold up well in general.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by captveg

DVDs from 2001 don't hold up well in general.

Whilst that's true it does look worse than a lot of other DVD's from that time period. Not sure how Lucasfilm let that slip past quality control.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Whilst that's true it does look worse than a lot of other DVD's from that time period. Not sure how Lucasfilm let that slip past quality control.

Lucasfilm had QC issues in the early 2000s and through the 2011 BD releases (though slightly improved) because they did a lot of things internally rather than letting Fox handle things.

I've been in the QC business since 2004, and it's an industry that benefits from lots of experience. Frankly put, Lucasfilm wasn't up to the task because they were stuck in a 90s pre-DVD QC mentality in a 2000s digital/DVD world. It was the home video equivalent of a Mom & Pop store vs. a Corporation - they had some smart specializations and insights that eventually got surpassed by the big boys once they could apply those same standards on a more mass scale. (Think of how "THX remastered" actually meant something in the 90s, but by the 2000s it was basically a branding rather than a sign of actual quality. Its methods had been co-opted and surpassed by other companies and the big studios in general).

When Disney gets around to doing actual new masters and releases of the six OT/PT films I expect vast improvements simply because they have far more experience at modern authoring and QC.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by captveg

Lucasfilm had QC issues in the early 2000s and through the 2011 BD releases (though slightly improved) because they did a lot of things internally rather than letting Fox handle things.

I've been in the QC business since 2004, and it's an industry that benefits from lots of experience. Frankly put, Lucasfilm wasn't up to the task because they were stuck in a 90s pre-DVD QC mentality in a 2000s digital/DVD world. It was the home video equivalent of a Mom & Pop store vs. a Corporation - they had some smart specializations and insights that eventually got surpassed by the big boys once they could apply those same standards on a more mass scale. (Think of how "THX remastered" actually meant something in the 90s, but by the 2000s it was basically a branding rather than a sign of actual quality. Its methods had been co-opted and surpassed by other companies and the big studios in general).

When Disney gets around to doing actual new masters and releases of the six OT/PT films I expect vast improvements simply because they have far more experience at modern authoring and QC.

Please explain Sword and the Stone...

[captveg]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Please explain Sword and the Stone...

Their ideas on how to present animation is wholly different than live action.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I always tell people I look at Star Wars as a series in 2 ways (not factoring in the new era of films): There is the original Star Wars trilogy in it's original version, and there is the George Lucas "Star Wars Saga."

The original trilogy (unaltered) exists on its own as it had for years until 1997 when Lucas released the Special Editions and went on to do the prequels and further revisions.

The "Saga" consists of all 6 films in Lucas' intended order of I-VI (or machete order if you want to get fancy), with the original trilogy being the modified versions started on DVD and continued on Blu-Ray (which we now know are the last versions Lucas will have his hand in) Alterations done to the originals don't make sense from a storytelling point of view if you watch them by themselves or in release order, particularly the Hayden ghost that closes out Jedi.

Excellent post. Of course there is the one other way that I think is superior to them all.

Star Wars original version, no "episode IV A New Hope" as a stand alone film. PERFECTION

As for Disney remastering, please say no, if it is like the color timing Pinnochio stuff. Leave them alone!

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Excellent post. Of course there is the one other way that I think is superior to them all.

Star Wars original version, no "episode IV A New Hope" as a stand alone film. PERFECTION

I agree with this 100%. I'm as happy as anyone to go down the "whole saga" rabbit-hole; I find it genuinely fun to watch I-VII in full saga order, and I look forward to ROGUE ONE fitting in between III and IV...

...but my favorite way to enjoy STAR WARS is still, well... STAR WARS. I love getting into the 1977-79 mindset, when Vader wasn't Luke's father, Leia certainly wasn't Luke's brother, and things like the Clone Wars were mentioned as part of a vast and mysterious backstory. You had to use (gasp) your imagination to fill in the blanks. Back then, I even thought there might be a bunch of Sith Lords dressed like Vader walking around the Empire; I thought he was part of an elite rank of bad-asses. The vastness of that first movie was breathtaking... and then it kept getting smaller and smaller, episode by episode, as everyone became related to everyone else. By the time the prequels were complete, it was clear that only about six people had anything to do with the entire sweep of STAR WARS history.

I'm a fan of ALL of them... even the prequels, though it took me a full TEN YEARS to stop despising them and learn to embrace 'em... but I still revere the greatness of the original -- as a stand-alone experience -- over all the rest.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

If people want me to leave then my quotes need not be pulled up and micontrued.

I stated how I felt and I backed up my claims and I feel with my explanation that the ideas are consistent.

You don't, fair enough.

Huh? When did I ever say I wanted you to leave?

Anyway, didn't you claim that the new blu-rays aren't shitty because they reflect the artist's current vision and fans don't understand that? That is what I interpreted from your post. And my opinion is that it doesn't matter if the changes are what Lucas prefers now. I still think they are shitty and that the original films are much better. So what is it exactly that fans don't understand?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Huh? When did I ever say I wanted you to leave?

Anyway, didn't you claim that the new blu-rays aren't shitty because they reflect the artist's current vision and fans don't understand that? That is what I interpreted from your post. And my opinion is that it doesn't matter if the changes are what Lucas prefers now. I still think they are shitty and that the original films are much better. So what is it exactly that fans don't understand?

I wasn't responding to you but rather the other two that were telling me to stop posting.

Please go back and read what I said. I said SOME fans and they are from my point of view. I rather like the blurays warts an all. Lots of great fixes with minimal bad fixes.

I didn't say just that some fans don't understand. I am saying that because of prejuduce they won't even try.

Also, I trust the artist. So shoot me for it. Just my opinion as opposed to what some think in regards to Lucas vision and won't even try to understand. My point is the nitpicks actually have explanation and aren't plot holes. I can't argue for personal taste and I certainly wouldn't state my opinion as the absolute fact like others have. I respect that people dislike, I just comment when I think things are factually wrong, and I think I gave a sound explanation for the Greedo shot first change. But hey, its ok if one doesn't respect that. Again, it is a religion that I understand, because I feel that way about the first movie in original form. Empire to me is not in the same universe because of many serious flaws like the Emperor bug eye or the Han love sick puppy. It is a change I dislike. However, the whole series was changed constantly from every release, what one likes, others don't...but boy that Han "shoots first"...that is the stickler that just mdkes Lucas the devil.

@steel_breeze. ABSOLUTELY. The fight between Obi Wan and Darth speaks volumes and has so many layers without spoon feeding.

"...now I am the master...omly a master of evil."

Tight script, tight movie. Total agreement.

We are slso in agreement about the whole saga. I too had serious hate before I got a proper sound system and stopped watching wth arms crossed and actually tried to understand what Lucas wanted and not just what I wanted. Hs commentaries explained so mch and I understand his frustration as an artist who is also struggling to create. He out in so many linking things and had themes that to me replicated expriences while still adding depth. I love that Christopher went in after Cushing was in the old.

I hope Abrams/Disney respects the prequels and keep working to make it fit because they are all important to a much larger story.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

We are slso in agreement about the whole saga. I too had serious hate before I got a proper sound system and stopped watching wth arms crossed and actually tried to understand what Lucas wanted and not just what I wanted.

Well said... a lot of appreciating the prequels, for me, is appreciating INTENTION rather than EXECUTION. Also appreciating where Lucas' intention came from. A lot of the corny dialogue is straight outta the old FLASH GORDON serials, while much of the other inspiration is straight out of Kurosawa flicks... including ol' Jar Jar, who is a terrible representation of the Kurosawa peasant character. In movies like SEVEN SAMURAI and HIDDEN FORTRESS, the peasants (with their exaggeratedly slapstick, almost Kabuki performances) served as the eyes of the audience, since the samurai characters were so "elevated". Lucas was trying to do the same thing with the Jar Jar / Jedi relationship. Again... bad execution, but good intention that I can totally get behind.

I can grit my teeth through even the worst moment of the prequels if its inspiration originates in classic cinema! And the always-excellent work of John Williams and Ben Burtt goes a long way in smoothing the whole thing out, in my opinion... even if their contributions are sometimes at odds with each other!

[Hardback247]

Another controversial thing about the PT was the Anakin/Padme romance. In truth, it actually closely follows the old-fashioned "courtly love" model of romance seen between characters like Romeo & Juliet and Lancelot & Guinevere.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Well said... a lot of appreciating the prequels, for me, is appreciating INTENTION rather than EXECUTION. Also appreciating where Lucas' intention came from. A lot of the corny dialogue is straight outta the old FLASH GORDON serials, while much of the other inspiration is straight out of Kurosawa flicks... including ol' Jar Jar, who is a terrible representation of the Kurosawa peasant character. In movies like SEVEN SAMURAI and HIDDEN FORTRESS, the peasants (with their exaggeratedly slapstick, almost Kabuki performances) served as the eyes of the audience, since the samurai characters were so "elevated". Lucas was trying to do the same thing with the Jar Jar / Jedi relationship. Again... bad execution, but good intention that I can totally get behind.

I can grit my teeth through even the worst moment of the prequels if its inspiration originates in classic cinema! And the always-excellent work of John Williams and Ben Burtt goes a long way in smoothing the whole thing out, in my opinion... even if their contributions are sometimes at odds with each other!

This may sound crazy, but I actually get more annoyed with C3PO as time goes on than JarJar. It could be how I feel about the way Ken Baker was treated, or just rather the whole pompus way he is handled.

JarJar is just another corny character to me that serves as the idiot he is (or not if you believe rumors), but also a much larger picture of how government can be fractured and corrupted by the wave of a wand.

The prequels explore this and how the parallels of that dsngerous thinking can bleed into corruoting eventhe Jedi's protection that produes fatal results.

The Saga is now meant to be seen in order, and Lucas put in beats to serve that. This is after having the stand alone version, the OT. Pretty cool if you ask me. There are versions for everyone. I will never agree with Lucas destroying negatives, but still the OT was available so many times.

Thx for duscussion!

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

This may sound crazy, but I actually get more annoyed with C3PO as time goes on than JarJar.

Considering the writing for Threepio in Menace, Clones, Sith...seems like a reasonable response.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

I was watching the 1997 editions a few months ago and I think they stand really well on their own as well.

How did you watch them? VHS? LD? Some special theatrical screening?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Well said... a lot of appreciating the prequels, for me, is appreciating INTENTION rather than EXECUTION. Also appreciating where Lucas' intention came from. A lot of the corny dialogue is straight outta the old FLASH GORDON serials, while much of the other inspiration is straight out of Kurosawa flicks... including ol' Jar Jar, who is a terrible representation of the Kurosawa peasant character. In movies like SEVEN SAMURAI and HIDDEN FORTRESS, the peasants (with their exaggeratedly slapstick, almost Kabuki performances) served as the eyes of the audience, since the samurai characters were so "elevated". Lucas was trying to do the same thing with the Jar Jar / Jedi relationship. Again... bad execution, but good intention that I can totally get behind.

I can grit my teeth through even the worst moment of the prequels if its inspiration originates in classic cinema! And the always-excellent work of John Williams and Ben Burtt goes a long way in smoothing the whole thing out, in my opinion... even if their contributions are sometimes at odds with each other!

Sure, I've said it before that I can see a lot of the thematic inner workings of the prequels...but the EXECUTION still matters to ME because a story shouldn't exist on the basis of subtext and references alone, it needs to be able to carry its own narrative weight too and the prequels simply don't do that.

You know what they say, steely: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

I'm a fan of ALL of them... even the prequels, though it took me a full TEN YEARS to stop despising them and learn to embrace 'em... but I still revere the greatness of the original -- as a stand-alone experience -- over all the rest.

I grew up with the prequels so I love them naturally.

As I got older I appreciated the OT more and more.

Now, I love them all. What helped was the holiday marathons that used to come on SpikeTV. Star Wars ALL WEEKEND. Both trilogies.

I really love Revenge of the Sith. The acting and dialogue may not be the best but it's a great engaging movie from start to finish.

Attack of the Clones and TPM I watch whenever they come on. I've learned to appreciate Qui-Gon a lot more over the recent viewings.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sure, I've said it before that I can see a lot of the thematic inner workings of the prequels...but the EXECUTION still matters to ME because a story shouldn't exist on the basis of subtext and references alone, it needs to be able to carry its own narrative weight too and the prequels simply don't do that.

You know what they say, steely: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Meh.

I love'em.

Execution may not have been perfect, but they are what they are. All 6 are entertaining to me.

I watched 7 a bunch but the more I watch it the less I like it. It has its moments but I can't get over just how much of a Greatest Hits movie it is.

I'm looking forward to Rogue One as its' the first original Star Wars movie to come out in 11 years.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sure, I've said it before that I can see a lot of the thematic inner workings of the prequels...but the EXECUTION still matters to ME because a story shouldn't exist on the basis of subtext and references alone, it needs to be able to carry its own narrative weight too and the prequels simply don't do that.

You know what they say, steely: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

GEORGE LUCAS' THE THREE LITTLE PIGS
Once upon a time, three little pigs went out into the world to make their fortune. One day, a wolf showed up. The pigs decided to discuss the appearance of the wolf, and some even doubted there was a wolf. A politician arrived to help resolve the conflict. For some reason, he looked just like a wolf. A fourth pig appeared, and was very good at killing wolves...or would be, some day. At least, that's what it said on his birth certificate, which was unsigned. All three pigs found themselves in the same house. The practical pig stared out of a window. The wolf tried to get into the house, fell down the chimney, was horribly scalded, and ran away.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by MasturB

I'm looking forward to Rogue One as its' the first original Star Wars movie to come out in 11 years.

Is it? It's another movie about a band of Rebels coming together to defeat a weapon that can destroy planets. I mean it looks cool and the cast looks great, but I'm not gonna call it original til I see it.