Belkin N+ wireless router & PS3

[Sylin]

So we're having a lot of issues with our Apple Airport Extreme. Until Apple decides to produce a reliable, quality router on par with the rest of the industry, I'm switching back to another brand.

Does anyone have any experience with the Belkin N+ wireless router?

It got glowing reviews from industry pros, although a lot of user reviews have dinged its performance with PS3 connectivity. Now, as a techie myself, I recognize that a lot of "user reviews" are subject to how savvy the user is, and I know most people can barely pronounce "ethernet" let alone accurately review wireless tech. So I humbly turn to my PS3 community. =) Thoughts?

FYI - we have 2x PS3's, 2x TiVo's, an Xbox 360, 4x Macs, and a Vonage telephone that will all be connecting wirelessly to this device, so I need to be able to prioritize traffic to certain IP's and/or ports.

Thanks!

[Marine Mike]

One of my friends called Sony support based his PS3 wasn't connecting to his router (after he contacted me of course). They stated that because his router was 'N' it wasn't supported and would have to get a 'G' router.

I gave him an 'old' (fairly new router) that was 'G' and it worked like a charm.

[ADRiiAN`]

For a wireless N router, I would go with:

D-Link DIR-655 Xtreme N Gigabit Router
Linksys WRT300N Wireless-N Broadband Router
Belkin N1 Wireless Router

That is a crazy amount of stuff to be connected wireless, although, you should be fine.

Connect anything and everything you can, using a wire. I understand for farther distances, use wireless.

You want to prioritize traffic? Google search Port Forwarding and you shall find many tutorials on how to do it. You'll be able to have full control of all incoming and outgoing traffic, you can open and close ports and more.

Edit - Always make sure uPnP is disable when you config the router in the router's IP, uPnP is the worst.

[ADRiiAN`]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

One of my friends called Sony support based his PS3 wasn't connecting to his router (after he contacted me of course). They stated that because his router was 'N' it wasn't supported and would have to get a 'G' router.

I gave him an 'old' (fairly new router) that was 'G' and it worked like a charm.

The router should have been able to handle a 'G' signal as well. It's odd that it wasn't backward compatible.

[Marine Mike]

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

The router should have been able to handle a 'G' signal as well. It's odd that it wasn't backward compatible.

I never said that the Sony people were correct with their complete diagnosis, but for some reason it worked. I personally never tried what you suggested.

The thing is that he was connecting 'wired' therefore the 'N' part wouldn't of matter.

[ADRiiAN`]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

I never said that the Sony people were correct with their complete diagnosis, but for some reason it worked. I personally never tried what you suggested.

The thing is that he was connecting 'wired' therefore the 'N' part wouldn't of matter.

I would probably blame uPnP, it was probably enabled in the Router's IP and wouldn't connect to the PS3. That has happened to me before, both wired and wireless.

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

D-Link DIR-655 Xtreme N Gigabit Router
Linksys WRT300N Wireless-N Broadband Router
Belkin N1 Wireless Router

Any particular reason for these router choices? Is there some sort of official Sony list? I am not a fan of Linksys--Cisco's consumer products are mediocre. From what I understand, the Belkin N+ is the replacement for the N1, so I think that leans more towards my preference. I've used D-Link in the past, so I'll look up the 655. Thanks.

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

That is a crazy amount of stuff to be connected wireless

Not really. Any consumer wireless router should be able to handle up to 32 wireless devices simultaneously without choking. Anything above that typically requires a product of the "pro-sumer" variety.

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

You want to prioritize traffic? Google search Port Forwarding and you shall find many tutorials on how to do it.

Yes, but port forwarding (or even port triggering) is not the same as traffic prioritizing (ie. bandwidth allocation). Port Forwarding just means when a certain port is opened, traffic on that port is routed to a specific IP. Traffic prioritizing makes sure that when a certain port is opened, a set amount of bandwidth is temporarily allocated to that IP, essentially throttling all other router traffic to accommodate, for as long as the port is open. Once the connection terminates, the routing goes back to normal.

My old D-Link DGL-4300 did this with ease (I can't remember why I ever got rid of it). Apple's Airport products do not do it (which is ridiculous).

[ADRiiAN`]

Originally Posted by Sylin

Any particular reason for these router choices? Is there some sort of official Sony list? I am not a fan of Linksys--Cisco's consumer products are mediocre. From what I understand, the Belkin N+ is the replacement for the N1, so I think that leans more towards my preference. I've used D-Link in the past, so I'll look up the 655. Thanks.

Those 3 are rated the best, Starting off with the Dlink 655, rave reviews. I've always loved Linksys (Cisco) products, they always do the job great.
If the Belkin N+ is the replacement, then I hope it's even better then the N1 (which was also a great product)

Originally Posted by Sylin

Not really. Any consumer wireless router should be able to handle up to 32 wireless devices simultaneously without choking. Anything above that typically requires a product of the "pro-sumer" variety.

Oh I know, I wasn't saying it was overboard, but, I never spoke to anyone who was connecting that much in wireless

Originally Posted by Sylin

Yes, but port forwarding (or even port triggering) is not the same as traffic prioritizing (ie. bandwidth allocation). Port Forwarding just means when a certain port is opened, traffic on that port is routed to a specific IP. Traffic prioritizing makes sure that when a certain port is opened, a set amount of bandwidth is temporarily allocated to that IP, essentially throttling all other router traffic to accommodate, for as long as the port is open. Once the connection terminates, the routing goes back to normal.

Ahh I do see what your saying, so you want to go more deeper then port forwarding.

Originally Posted by Sylin

My old D-Link DGL-4300 did this with ease (I can't remember why I ever got rid of it). Apple's Airport products do not do it (which is ridiculous).

I've heard the Airport was having some problems with the Xbox's wireless setup, amongst other problems as well.

All in all, I do have good reason to believe that you are quite the savvy tech guy/gal.

As for me, I am too, and D-Link and Linksys products have never failed me. I own a Linksys Wireless G Router, a Linksys PCMCIA card, a D-Link Router (Which I turned into a switch to hard wire my PS3 and desktop), as well as a D-Link Wireless USB Adapter. None of them have failed me and always give me great results.

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

Those 3 are rated the best, Starting off with the Dlink 655, rave reviews.

Cool. I'll definitely check it out. My experience with D-Link products has, for the most part, been positive.

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

Oh I know, I wasn't saying it was overboard, but, I never spoke to anyone who was connecting that much in wireless

I know... it's terrible. I have easy access to my crawlspace so I should probably run wires. All this wi-fi is probably giving me a tumor. ;-)

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

I've heard the Airport was having some problems with the Xbox's wireless setup, amongst other problems as well.

Yes, it's quite crap with the Xbox. Actually had to buy a Belkin wireless bridge to make it work because the official MS wireless adapter kept dropping out during XBL play. Annoying. The kids and I seldom use it (PS3 is our main entertainment now), but annoying nonetheless.

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

All in all, I do have good reason to believe that you are quite the savvy tech guy/gal.

Guy. =)

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

As for me, I am too, and D-Link and Linksys products have never failed me. I own a Linksys Wireless G Router, a Linksys PCMCIA card, a D-Link Router (Which I turned into a switch to hard wire my PS3 and desktop), as well as a D-Link Wireless USB Adapter. None of them have failed me and always give me great results.

Excellent advice. Thanks for the tips. I'm reading reviews on the D-Link 655 right now!

[Joon]

You will only get N speeds if you run only N products. If you have an N router you have to send a G signal which will basically get rid of the N speeds. There is no need to have a N router if you own a ps3.

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by Joon

You will only get N speeds if you run only N products. If you have an N router you have to send a G signal which will basically get rid of the N speeds. There is no need to have a N router if you own a ps3.

@Joon -- This isn't necessarily true. Dual-band routers are capable of communicating with 802.11b/g devices via 2.4ghz band, and 802.11n devices via 5.0ghz band on a single router without loss of N-type performance (or so little as to be insignificant for anything but benchmark tests).

@ADRiiAN` -- The term I couldn't remember earlier (doped up on cold meds) when I was referring to bandwidth allocation/traffic prioritizing was QoS. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time finding a dual-band router with QoS that is getting good reviews and has a solid throughput (as throughput is one of my major issues with our current Airport device).

The D-Link 655 is looking like a good contender, though. My only concern is its age (2006). They've since come out with an 825 and 855, but both of those seem to suffer from range and throughput issues, similar to the Airport. =/

[SkantDragon]

I've done a lot of work professionally with wireless routers.

I do not recommend 802.11n at this time. The 802.11n standard is still in draft phase. So all of these devices are actually 'pre-N', even though the manufacturers would like everyone to not notice that distinction.

These devices do not provide anything like the performance level that real N is going to. They're more like augmented 802.11g. And most particularly, they have a lot of issues. My company has not found a stable 802.11n router yet.

In my own home, I use the Linksys WRT54GL. This is an 802.11g wireless router which has been available forever and continues to be available. There's a reason for that. It is rock solid, and everything works with it.

Yes, I agree with your assessment that Linksys has put out some products with questionable stability in the past. You have to know which ones are good and which ones are bad. This is one of the good ones.

[Blu350z]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if a PS3 connects to a wireless N router the wireless N router then gives off G and the N compatible products then also connect to G?

For instance if I have the Extreme Base and using a Macbook using N and then turned on the PS3 the Extreme Base then switches to G signals turning down then N to G on my Macbook.

[ADRiiAN`]

Originally Posted by Sylin

@ADRiiAN` -- The term I couldn't remember earlier (doped up on cold meds) when I was referring to bandwidth allocation/traffic prioritizing was QoS. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time finding a dual-band router with QoS that is getting good reviews and has a solid throughput (as throughput is one of my major issues with our current Airport device).

The D-Link 655 is looking like a good contender, though. My only concern is its age (2006). They've since come out with an 825 and 855, but both of those seem to suffer from range and throughput issues, similar to the Airport. =/

I just logged into my linksys router, and I see 'QoS', I actually decided to setup my PS3 to highest priority, as well as the port 1 and port 2 of the router, things seem to be running fairly well still.

Originally Posted by SkantDragon

I've done a lot of work professionally with wireless routers.

I do not recommend 802.11n at this time. The 802.11n standard is still in draft phase. So all of these devices are actually 'pre-N', even though the manufacturers would like everyone to not notice that distinction.

These devices do not provide anything like the performance level that real N is going to. They're more like augmented 802.11g. And most particularly, they have a lot of issues. My company has not found a stable 802.11n router yet.

In my own home, I use the Linksys WRT54GL. This is an 802.11g wireless router which has been available forever and continues to be available. There's a reason for that. It is rock solid, and everything works with it.

Yes, I agree with your assessment that Linksys has put out some products with questionable stability in the past. You have to know which ones are good and which ones are bad. This is one of the good ones.

You are absolutely right, N has not been finalized yet as a standard. It's still in it's draft.

As for your WRT54GL, amazing router, open source so you can add your own custom firmware, the WRT54G, is as equally great as well.

[ADRiiAN`]

Originally Posted by Blu350z

Correct me if I'm wrong but if a PS3 connects to a wireless N router the wireless N router then gives off G and the N compatible products then also connect to G?

For instance if I have the Extreme Base and using a Macbook using N and then turned on the PS3 the Extreme Base then switches to G signals turning down then N to G on my Macbook.

With Dual-Band routers, 'G' is on a 2.4GHz band whereas 'N' is on a 5GHz band. They should not downgrade itself to both G.

[M3Shark]

Originally Posted by ADRiiAN`

re.

Edit - Always make sure uPnP is disable when you config the router in the router's IP, uPnP is the worst.

Please forgive my ignorance, but why is uPnP considered so bad?

[richieb1971]

I don't know what I have but its a Belkin. I have more trouble with my Vista laptop than I do the ps3. PS3 works fine.

All this talk of port forwarding and what not, I just plugged it in and it worked lol.

[ADRiiAN`]

Originally Posted by M3Shark

Please forgive my ignorance, but why is uPnP considered so bad?

With uPnP, programs can open ports without the user knowing, and change multiple things, without you even knowing and steal your information. Not very good for users, very good for hackers, keyloggers and such.

Also, when I had uPnP enabled, it cripped my network, my PS3 would instantly stop connecting, and all my computers in my home were at disgustingly slow speeds.

[supersix4]

as I stated along time ago we went with the $200+ linksys router. Both the ps3 (wouldnt even connect bc of how locked up the router was in the nat settings), and 360 had real trouble connecting... so then we went with a rangemax from netgear (which was on a pre-approved list via mS) and haven't had a problem since.

since the ps3 doesn't take advantage of N you'd be better off getting a quality G.

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by SkantDragon

I do not recommend 802.11n at this time. The 802.11n standard is still in draft phase. So all of these devices are actually 'pre-N', even though the manufacturers would like everyone to not notice that distinction.

These devices do not provide anything like the performance level that real N is going to. They're more like augmented 802.11g. And most particularly, they have a lot of issues. My company has not found a stable 802.11n router yet.

My research thus far suggests it's fairly close. And as we all know, most of us Blu-ray fans wouldn't be here were it not for our affinity for bleeding-edge tech and experimenting with incomplete "standards".

Currently 802.11N is in Draft 2 (which is akin to a beta), and is expected to be standardized by the end of this year (Draft N products have been on the market since 2004, so they aren't exactly "new" tech... just slow to standardize).

My Apple Airport Extreme is actually Draft N, and it works great. Very solid. My problems are with throughput (Apple's routers are notoriously slow and unable to handle the kind of loads I put mine through), its lack of QoS, and some other routing features that are a pretty much standard with most other brands. Matter of fact, they actually REMOVED features in the last firmware update.

That said, I've ordered the DIR-655 from Amazon. I'll give it a spin for a few weeks and see how it holds up for business and gaming use. The Linksys is tempting at 1/2 the price, but there's just too many bad memories and sleepless nights troubleshooting Cisco tech for me to go down that road.