Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[happydood]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still love the bit in the BBC documentary about Phantom Menace where Rick McCallum and Señor Spielbergo both talk on-camera about George's 9-film plan for Star Wars. But according to Lucas it was all lies by the media...and also by his friends and his closest working colleagues apparently

The man has ALWAYS written his story the way he wants to, twisting and turning it to support whatever narrative he's chosen for that particular day, and I'm referring just as much to his public persona as the movies themselves. My only surprise is that he didn't sprout wings to stay above the bullshit.

I'm still pretty enamored with how he put things together- and I agree with you- he's self-made in every sense of the word. From everything I've read- and this goes back to being a 10 year old fantasizing about what was coming in the then-titled 'Revenge of the Jedi- in old articles and Starlogs and whatnots, I don't think he had the 'Vader as father' in mind until actively working on Empire. He made up a lot as he went.

But to suggest that everything was on the fly and he was some savant who got lucky with a 'mess of ideas?' I just don't get this it's all one way or else it's another slant on things. Maybe the grasp of his execution as a director isn't always up to his reach, but a BRILLIANT storyteller he is.

This is a link to an article that contains PDF's of transcripts of the original story sessions for Raiders featuring Lucas, Spielberg and Kasdan- it really sheds light on just how much soul he injects into his stories and you can really get a sense of how he operates. It's well worth your time.

http://gullcottageonline.com/WriteSt...14RAIDERS.html

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Jay G.

Can you cite any specific examples?

And keep in mind, many of the "official" making-of books and materials tend to take whatever Lucas claims for granted.

keep in mind that books that quote others, often have the others saying contradictory and sometimes disproven stuff and others have told varying tales of how things went down so it's not like Lucas is 100% flim-flam and all the rest is 100.000000000% gospel

Any actual evidence, something written down, that predates ESB?

you have no evidence that it was never in his head before

and stuff like that appears in the sorts of mythology and books he was reading back then

So, "no" to the question above. Obi-Wan acts like someone reflecting on an awkward and painful part of his past. His pupil Vader turned on him and killed another of his pupils, Luke's father. None of the audience thought Obi-Wan was lying, which is why the twist in ESB was so surprising.

nah, he looked damn shifty in that scene and I noticed it the very first time I saw it in '77 (not that I say I knew then exactly why he was acting shifty and what it meant, I didn't it, but I knew something shifty went down)

Do you have a quote where Alec Guinness said he knew Vader was Luke's father during the filming of Star Wars?

no, but he did say that he insisted that Lucas fill him in on backstory since it was critical for his method acting and he used his stature to get Lucas to tell him stuff that he told nobody else and then combine that with how he acted the scene (plus the sorts of mythology Lucas based it on) and it seems quite possible that Lucas at least said something about how perhaps Vader was his father. Maybe he went back and forth after before settling and locking it in.

It's not just that he said he wasn't making more movies, but lying and saying there never were any plans for additional movies.

Yeah I know that. As I said he just wanted to stop getting hounded. He was half broken down after each film and totally burned out. So he go back and forth between freely talking about 9 (or 12) films and then saying he never had the slightest plan for anything beyond 3. Heck I think he even did that trick again after the prequels where he then a few times said there was never anything beyond 6 ever. Mostly he was sick of the haters and burned out and didn't want to be pestered and wanted to be free to keep options open. He also sometimes uses the whole "from a certain point of view" thing as it suits him (in this case he could stretch it to having made the other Leia and not Rey and wrapped up things with the Emperor in 6 that one set of original outlines for 7-9 were sort of wrapped up already, even if that is a bit of a stretch and also goes against some of his other 7-9 version plan talk done just before ROTJ was released).

Here's him stating that the idea of films past Episode 6 was only a "joke" he made once

yeah I know, so?

In 2008, he explicitly stated that there would never been a sequel trilogy:

once again I know, so?

So Lucas changes his mind over time, but each time, he acts like his new decision was the way it had always been.

it depends, often it's more just in reference to more stuff and when he is burned out and/or wants peace from the media

(and you can find odd, contradictory statements from everyone on 7-9 once it got going, from Lucas, Kasdan, Kennedy, JJ all the latter few also make contradictory statements that don't always add up, at least not without using a lot of the whole "from a certain point of view" thing)

[Pondosinatra]

Star Wars movies ranked...

https://collider.com/star-wars-movie...worst-to-best/

...and discuss.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Star Wars movies ranked...

https://collider.com/star-wars-movie...worst-to-best/

...and discuss.

What a load of crap.

[motorheadache95]

Well I enjoyed reading through the writer's opinions-- almost as much as the backlash I know he's getting for ranking a certain movie above another certain movie, lol.

I obviously don't agree with the rankings, exactly, but I agreed with some of his summations of each film. For example, his criticisms of Rise of Skywalker are right, but I didn't think those criticisms put the film below Episodes I and II. And while I appreciate The Last Jedi more than many, many Star Wars fans, I still think there were many flaws to the film on a conceptual level that didn't work well, which would knock the film's ranking down in the middle somewhere.

[DCW]

^ You're a better man than me, I just skimmed the rankings and thought:

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Star Wars movies ranked...

https://collider.com/star-wars-movie...worst-to-best/

...and discuss.

It's not exactly how I'd have it, but I don't hate this ranking. Pretty close to mine, gotta say. I'd just flip EMPIRE and LAST JEDI and elevate ROGUE ONE a bit.

[Narcissus]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Star Wars movies ranked...

1} Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
2} Star Wars
3} Star Wars: Return Of The Jedi

And Garbage.


Edit:
The Last Jack-off over Empire?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwOowWbe5Ow&ab_channel=YouTubeMovies

[CreasyBear]

How "edgy"! He put the most hated Star Wars film directly above the most loved one. That is literally the worst order you could put Star Wars in.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Star Wars movies ranked...

https://collider.com/star-wars-movie...worst-to-best/

...and discuss.

A reasonable enough ranking and description. Although Revenge Of The Sith leads a charmed life. It's nowhere near as good a film as Solo.


This is spot on.

..every decision in The Last Jedi is rooted in servicing the story, characters, and themes in the best way possible. The development of Kylo Ren here is quite possibly the highlight of the movie, and Adam Driver delivers a phenomenal performance that brings the pain, anguish, and fear of this character alive in thrilling, visceral ways. Kylo is being genuine when he asks Rey to join him and start anew. He's not a malevolent, evil being who wants to rule the galaxy just for the sake of it. He's a boy whose lineage set an impossible standard, and who was betrayed by those who were supposed to care for him the most. He's lonely, first and foremost, and in Rey finds a kindred spirit. She's also lonely and frustrated, but she chooses to funnel that energy into the light, into saving what she loves.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

It's all a "Certain Point of View" with Lucas.

More like "It depends on what day it is, who I'm talking to and in what context I'm being asked to speak."

Or as JW Rinzler put it. "Whatever idea George comes up with at any moment is the original idea he always had from the beginning and the only way he was going to ever do it. No matter what he did or said previously."

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

you have no evidence that it was never in his head before

I cited the evidence that suggest the most likely scenario: that making Vader Luke's father was conceived of and developed during the writing of ESB.

Again, if Lucas had planned for Vader to be Luke's father way back during Star Wars, why would he write an initial treatment for ESB, and have Leigh Brackett write a script, that had Father Skywalker as a completely different character?

Your version of events makes no sense, is based on no evidence other than Lucas's claims long after the fact, and contrary to the actual evidence we have.

Like, you can't even back up your claim that Alec Guinness knew with an actual quote. You know, something relevant.

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

Yeah I know that. As I said he just wanted to stop getting hounded.

So you're admitting he lied about that, but you're justifying his lie because he had personal reasons to. Now that we've established that Lucas will lie about his plans for Star Wars for personal reasons, isn't it likely he's lied about other parts of Star Wars too?

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by happydood

I'm still pretty enamored with how he put things together- and I agree with you- he's self-made in every sense of the word. From everything I've read- and this goes back to being a 10 year old fantasizing about what was coming in the then-titled 'Revenge of the Jedi- in old articles and Starlogs and whatnots, I don't think he had the 'Vader as father' in mind until actively working on Empire. He made up a lot as he went.

But to suggest that everything was on the fly and he was some savant who got lucky with a 'mess of ideas?'

I don't know what you're talking about here, since neither I nor anyone else I've seen has suggested the films were made "only the fly." Do you mean improvised on set?

Certainly there's a middle ground between "planned all 6, 9, 12 films in advance," and "it was all on the fly," yes?

Lucas started with a mess of ideas and an near incoherent story treatment. Then, in an attempt to get more structure, he literally copied a summary of The Hidden Fortress from a book, changing the setting, and character and place names. From there he made another attempt at an original story, iterated and refined over several drafts, and hired others to polish the dialogue.

In terms of "plans," I don't think Lucas had much set in stone for any future sequels while making Star Wars, and certainly not the "Vader is Luke's father" twist. He did, at the least, think that sequels were possible. He held onto the sequel rights after all, something that was extremely rare. He kept the Emperor off-screen. He kept Vader alive at the climax, limping away in his tie fighter. He commissioned Alan Dean Foster to write Splinter in the Mind's Eye, with an eye to using it as a script for a cheap sequel.

And certainly, during the development of ESB, Lucas came up with the backstory for Vader that he felt was rich enough to deserve its own trilogy of films, hence why Star Wars Chapter/Episode 2 became Episode V, and the original Star Wars was retroactively retitled Episode IV.

And it's known that during the making of ESB, Luke's arc was planned out to span 6 movies, with "there is another" supposed to be a new character that appears in a later film. However, Lucas was tired of Star Wars by the time they started scripting ROTJ, so condensed the storylines down to one "final" film to fit into a trilogy. So by ESB, Lucas was planning out the series beyond just the film at hand, but those plans also changed as circumstances did.

So yes, there's a middle ground, and I feel like my opinion is firmly in it.

[Narcissus]

Reel 3 Now At 75%
Reel 4 Complete

7 Dec 2020:



31 Dec 2020:

[Jason Rietman4k]

^If anyone wants to get a 4K UHD disc of 4K77 and 4K83 send me a private message.

Can't wait until 4K80 and The Killer (from HK rescue) are done.

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by Jason Rietman4k

^If anyone wants to get a 4K UHD disc of 4K77 and 4K83 send me a private message.

Can't wait until 4K80 and The Killer (from HK rescue) are done.

Do you know where I can get T1 with the laserdisc mono?

[drush9999]

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

Do you know where I can get T1 with the laserdisc mono?

It's on MySpleen, but if you're not a member you're out of luck, and I have no invitations left

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by drush9999

It's on MySpleen, but if you're not a member you're out of luck, and I have no invitations left

I don't believe anyone has any invitations left, do they? MS seems to have closed up shop unfortunately.

It's a pain in the ass not only for fan edits, but also when I want to watch things that just aren't available here at all (Run is a Hulu exclusive and Hulu isn't a thing here, for example). Not sure if MS dabbles in that sort of thing or not, though.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by koberulz

I don't believe anyone has any invitations left, do they? MS seems to have closed up shop unfortunately.

It's a pain in the ass not only for fan edits, but also when I want to watch things that just aren't available here at all (Run is a Hulu exclusive and Hulu isn't a thing here, for example). Not sure if MS dabbles in that sort of thing or not, though.

Can't someone just host the file somewhere like WeTransfer or something?

[koberulz]

If someone had the specific file, sure, there are ways, especially for a soundtrack. But when we're talking things like 4k77, or various recuts or regrades of films, or just circumventing regional exclusivity, it's not quite the same situation.