Warner Archive Collection Blu-ray Discussion Thread

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

As much as Zhivago would be great, North by Northwest is overdue. Especially with Universal moving forwards with more Hitchcock.

Thank you! (though I would take Zhivago in a heartbeat should it come before NNW.)

[apearson28]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

I don't know when it was recorded, but it was less than a month ago that the regular podcast that features George and WAC updates released this one with him.

Ah ok i didn't listen to that one. But nearly a month.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by apearson28

Sorry to be that guy... but is George Feltenstein doing ok? Haven't heard him on any podcasts for a short period of time, unless I missed something. I get nervous in these hard times when I don't see or hear George for a few weeks.

Hopefully he's on his A-game when Zaslav comes a-calling.

[Jobla]

Originally Posted by Shanghai Express

Giant is getting a 4K release in June from Warner Home Video. I wonder why it couldn't be released under the WAC banner just so they could say they went 4K.

Will there be a standard Blu-ray release, or will it just be UHD 4K format?

[Shanghai Express]

Originally Posted by Jobla

Will there be a standard Blu-ray release, or will it just be UHD 4K format?

No new Blu-ray, which seems to be the route Warner Bros. is going with their 4K upgrades of catalog titles. Singin’ In The Rain didn’t get a new Blu-ray either.

[xochipilli]

Finally got my copy of The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm from wowhd, came in perfect condition and no extra fees, so thanks to the user who suggested it. And WOW! I'd seen the screenshots and the few clips released by the team, but it truly doesn't compare to seeing this absolute miracle by yourself with a proper system.

As pretty much everyone else has said, this really does look like it was shot yesterday. Any trace of the once-thought insurmountable wear and tear has been wiped away, leaving the natural properties of the original film undisturbed. And what a gorgeous production it is! The German locations offer plenty of detail and color, and the Cinerama cameras soak up every little bit of it, I spent practically the entire movie with my mouth agape, muttering praise to misters Strohmaier and March, with each successive shot piling on the beauty. The beautiful forests, lakes and towns stretch off into the distance, with the foliage, the water and every bit of wear and tear and decorations on the buildings popping to the point that you'd swear you could almost touch them. And the studio stuff is no slouch either! The cave set is loaded with so much texturing it manages to fight the damn fire-breathing dragon for the viewer's attention, the greenery on the trees and grass look like you could count each leaf if you looked hard enough, and the Wintery Christmas village doesn't have that much screentime, but each shot shines with bright white snow, with each falling flake perfectly sharp on the screen. It all looks unbelievable!

Something that particularly impressed me about the film is how great the effects shots look. The team did do quite a bit of finessing to some of the dodgier shots, but what's incredible is how little image degradation there is. You can definitely see the edges of the matted areas where they're placing the stop-motion into the live-action and vice-versa, but outside of one shot of Russ Tamblyn on the back of the carriage, there is barely any noticeable drop-off in quality from the other shots, which is already impressive for an ordinary 35mm film from the time, let alone a three-strip film like this. Especially when you look at How the West was Won's rear projection shots, which stick out like a sore thumb, and this stuff looks all the more impressive. Kudos to George Pal and his team, and to the restorationists for bringing this incredible work back from the brink!

As for the film itself, it's true that the fairy tale scenes overshadow the rest quite a bit, overflowing with the humor and imagination of George Pal, brought to wonderful vivid life by the craftsmen at MGM, while the framing plot can't help but pale a bit. Most of the cast can come off as a bit bland, though I found Laurence Harvey surprisingly captivating, full of joy and idealism, channeling's Pal love for the original tales without coming off as too childish. And while Levin's direction is a bit flatter compared with his co-director's, I still enjoyed the scenes just enough not to fret about when the next tale would come, and even the slower moments were massively uplifted by the incredible craftsmanship.

But even if the film isn't as great as it could be, it's all the better that it's gotten this extensive a restoration effort. Had it remained in the dismal shape it was in, it would not only be a major blow to film preservation, but the movie itself would never have had a fair shot. Like Fox's equally magnificent work on Doctor Dolittle(a weaker film than Grimm), this disc allows the film's stunning strengths to shine as brightly as possible, helping the weaker parts go down easier. If you're a fan of the film and for some reason haven't gotten a copy, please consider doing so, as this work truly deserves being rewarded. And if you're on the fence about getting it or only mildly interested, I promise this one will remain one of the best looking discs in your library for many years to come. I've done my part in thanking Strohmaier and co. with my money, and can only hope this is the first of quite a few miracles Warner performs on their tougher films, particularly their large format titles. Who knows, some day I may be typing a similarly effusive post about a similarly miraculous release of Raintree County on here!

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by apearson28

Sorry to be that guy... but is George Feltenstein doing ok? Haven't heard him on any podcasts for a short period of time, unless I missed something. I get nervous in these hard times when I don't see or hear George for a few weeks.

Big things have happened since George’s last podcast appearance a month ago. The Discovery merger has officially gone through and the official word on the street is that Warner-Discovery are now hurriedly looking to cut $3 billion in expenses to both please shareholders and begin paying off the company’s massive debt.

Personally I’m worried as to what this could potentially mean not just for the Archive but also WB’s ongoing restoration work in general. Discovery seems focused on directing all resources toward streaming and little else. Hopefully George will be able to give us an update soon.

[EVOLVIST]

Originally Posted by xochipilli

Finally got my copy of The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm from wowhd, came in perfect condition and no extra fees, so thanks to the user who suggested it. And WOW! I'd seen the screenshots and the few clips released by the team, but it truly doesn't compare to seeing this absolute miracle by yourself with a proper system.

As pretty much everyone else has said, this really does look like it was shot yesterday. Any trace of the once-thought insurmountable wear and tear has been wiped away, leaving the natural properties of the original film undisturbed. And what a gorgeous production it is! The German locations offer plenty of detail and color, and the Cinerama cameras soak up every little bit of it, I spent practically the entire movie with my mouth agape, muttering praise to misters Strohmaier and March, with each successive shot piling on the beauty. The beautiful forests, lakes and towns stretch off into the distance, with the foliage, the water and every bit of wear and tear and decorations on the buildings popping to the point that you'd swear you could almost touch them. And the studio stuff is no slouch either! The cave set is loaded with so much texturing it manages to fight the damn fire-breathing dragon for the viewer's attention, the greenery on the trees and grass look like you could count each leaf if you looked hard enough, and the Wintery Christmas village doesn't have that much screentime, but each shot shines with bright white snow, with each falling flake perfectly sharp on the screen. It all looks unbelievable!

Something that particularly impressed me about the film is how great the effects shots look. The team did do quite a bit of finessing to some of the dodgier shots, but what's incredible is how little image degradation there is. You can definitely see the edges of the matted areas where they're placing the stop-motion into the live-action and vice-versa, but outside of one shot of Russ Tamblyn on the back of the carriage, there is barely any noticeable drop-off in quality from the other shots, which is already impressive for an ordinary 35mm film from the time, let alone a three-strip film like this. Especially when you look at How the West was Won's rear projection shots, which stick out like a sore thumb, and this stuff looks all the more impressive. Kudos to George Pal and his team, and to the restorationists for bringing this incredible work back from the brink!

As for the film itself, it's true that the fairy tale scenes overshadow the rest quite a bit, overflowing with the humor and imagination of George Pal, brought to wonderful vivid life by the craftsmen at MGM, while the framing plot can't help but pale a bit. Most of the cast can come off as a bit bland, though I found Laurence Harvey surprisingly captivating, full of joy and idealism, channeling's Pal love for the original tales without coming off as too childish. And while Levin's direction is a bit flatter compared with his co-director's, I still enjoyed the scenes just enough not to fret about when the next tale would come, and even the slower moments were massively uplifted by the incredible craftsmanship.

But even if the film isn't as great as it could be, it's all the better that it's gotten this extensive a restoration effort. Had it remained in the dismal shape it was in, it would not only be a major blow to film preservation, but the movie itself would never have had a fair shot. Like Fox's equally magnificent work on Doctor Dolittle(a weaker film than Grimm), this disc allows the film's stunning strengths to shine as brightly as possible, helping the weaker parts go down easier. If you're a fan of the film and for some reason haven't gotten a copy, please consider doing so, as this work truly deserves being rewarded. And if you're on the fence about getting it or only mildly interested, I promise this one will remain one of the best looking discs in your library for many years to come. I've done my part in thanking Strohmaier and co. with my money, and can only hope this is the first of quite a few miracles Warner performs on their tougher films, particularly their large format titles. Who knows, some day I may be typing a similarly effusive post about a similarly miraculous release of Raintree County on here!

Thank you for this wonderful review. It's thoughtful and spot-on.

One could find little niggles with Brothers Grimm, but really this is an amazing restoration. Nothing is perfect, yet this restoration comes pretty close. I've watched it twice since it came out. Both fun times!

[playingphysicist]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Big things have happened since George’s last podcast appearance a month ago. The Discovery merger has officially gone through and the official word on the street is that Warner-Discovery are now hurriedly looking to cut $3 billion in expenses to both please shareholders and begin paying off the company’s massive debt.

Personally I’m worried as to what this could potentially mean not just for the Archive but also WB’s ongoing restoration work in general. Discovery seems focused on directing all resources toward streaming and little else. Hopefully George will be able to give us an update soon.

I'm pretty sure he was aware of what was happening with his company, this has been in the works for awhile.

If it will assuage your worries a bit, remember what George has said in the past - -that WAC has made more many each passing year (not less), and that the staff of people they actually employ is rather small.

This is just my own personal theory, but I think Warner's intention with the rather liberal restoration regime at WAC (if somewhat bare bones releases extra wise) is in reality meant to bring their back catalog up to steaming quality. The $$$ from sales of the blus of them more a fringe benefit. I have no proof of this, but much of what they put out on DVD wouldn't pass muster now for streaming, which is what these studios seem to care the most about now.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by playingphysicist

I'm pretty sure he was aware of what was happening with his company, this has been in the works for awhile.

Doubtful. Discovery executives were not legally allowed to communicate anything to Warner employees regarding their plans until after the merger was complete. It’s very unlikely that George would have been told anything (at least in an official capacity) before that time.

This article about the sudden shutdown of the newly launched CNN+ streaming service illustrates the company-wide situation rather starkly.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/21/m...own/index.html

In short: Discovery knew going in that they wanted to consolidate all streaming assets into a single platform but were legally powerless to stop the then-current CNN team from pouring hundreds of millions directly into the development of an app that was predestined to be shuttered.

Originally Posted by playingphysicist

If it will assuage your worries a bit, remember what George has said in the past - -that WAC has made more many each passing year (not less), and that the staff of people they actually employ is rather small.

This is definitely something working strongly in the Archive’s favor. As long as they’re not operating at a loss then their chances of surviving the regime change are likely good.

Originally Posted by playingphysicist

This is just my own personal theory, but I think Warner's intention with the rather liberal restoration regime at WAC (if somewhat bare bones releases extra wise) is in reality meant to bring their back catalog up to steaming quality. The $$$ from sales of the blus of them more a fringe benefit. I have no proof of this, but much of what they put out on DVD wouldn't pass muster now for streaming, which is what these studios seem to care the most about now.

I had this same hope when Disney+ launched but we’ve all seen how little work they’ve put into restoring the bulk of their respective catalog over the last 2.5 years. Hopefully history doesn’t repeat itself with the Warner library.

[playingphysicist]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

I had this same hope when Disney+ launched but we’ve all seen how little work they’ve put into restoring the bulk of their respective catalog over the last 2.5 years. Hopefully history doesn’t repeat itself with the Warner library.

Disney hasn't been good about physical media for a long time now (and not caring to correct sometimes major mistakes). It was obvious to me at the time that they wanted the library almost solely for various IP rights - this has been their modus operandi for a long time. Their track record was already bad for years (really, more like a decade +).

It is a different story for Warner; they have easily the most liberal of the big studios with releases.

I also think the market is becoming over-saturated with streaming services. Now every media company seemingly has one. You probably saw what happened with Netflix over the last few days. There is no guarantee this new one will even live up to expectations (I hope it doesn't - I despise these services and want the whole bottom to fall out from under them).

[randian]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

I had this same hope when Disney+ launched but we’ve all seen how little work they’ve put into restoring the bulk of their respective catalog over the last 2.5 years. Hopefully history doesn’t repeat itself with the Warner library.

I don't know what Warner's corporate direction will be, but Disney pretty much wants to bury its back catalog. Erase it via remakes or just not make it available at all.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by playingphysicist

Disney hasn't been good about physical media for a long time now (and not caring to correct sometimes major mistakes). It was obvious to me at the time that they wanted the library almost solely for various IP rights - this has been their modus operandi for a long time. Their track record was already bad for years (really, more like a decade +).

It is a different story for Warner; they have easily the most liberal of the big studios with releases.

I also think the market is becoming over-saturated with streaming services. Now every media company seemingly has one. You probably saw what happened with Netflix over the last few days. There is no guarantee this new one will even live up to expectations (I hope it doesn't - I despise these services and want the whole bottom to fall out from under them).

Everything you say here is true and I ardently hope that Warner’s wonderfully liberal release schedule keeps chugging along under the new executive rule. However, given how we legitimately almost lost the Archive a year ago under AT&T it’s very hard not to be somewhat anxious. What happened once could very well happen again and personally I am quite eager to get confirmation from George and his team that everything is fine for the foreseeable future.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by playingphysicist

I also think the market is becoming over-saturated with streaming services. Now every media company seemingly has one. You probably saw what happened with Netflix over the last few days. There is no guarantee this new one will even live up to expectations (I hope it doesn't - I despise these services and want the whole bottom to fall out from under them).

All that's going to happen is they're going to consolidate into fewer, bigger services. People aren't going to stop streaming. All those users Netflix lost are leaving for D+, HBOMax, etc. They're not buying Blu-rays.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Aclea

I rarely do aside from Tom Weaver's, but that was one I initially dipped into to find something out and ended up going back and listening to the whole thing. It's exceptionally good.

I used to think I didn't have time to re-watch the film and that most commentaries weren't very good. Then when I finally heard some great ones that went out the window. Later on when I figured out how to start digitizing tracks as mp3s to listen on a portable player on the go that was it and I was a commentary nut.

The best tracks are usually found on classic horror films by the usual experts who have a knack for blending insane levels of detail with a warm listening experience. The Tom Weaver tracks I've heard are all what you go to a commentary for: film school in an audio track. His tracks for The Wolf Man and Bedlam are among the finest ever done.

Originally Posted by mja345

There really aren't guys around like George Sanders anymore. There aren't really guys anymore you can picture hanging around in a smoking jacket, ascot, and slippers in a mansion all day and calling his wife "Mumsie" and still be incredibly f**king cool like ol' George. Cary Grant exuded the same vibe.

And he could do costume pictures and even sometimes get to play a more likeable fellow. I have to admit though I am an even bigger fan of "the nice George Sanders", his brother Tom Conway.

Originally Posted by hoytereden

I enjoy his brother’s entries in The Falcon series as well. If, for no other reason, I’d be a Tom Conway fan for his Lewton films alone.

You took the words right out of my keyboard!

I completely agree it would be amazing to see any of The Saint of Falcon films get HD treatment. Some real gems are in there and being a Lewton fanatic there's a bit of crossover in the later Falcons with Conway and Ardel Wray.

Originally Posted by hoytereden

Yes, there’s no one like them or Ronald Coleman. Distinctive mannerisms and those voices!

Prisoner of Zenda (1937) is one of my dream WAC Blu-rays. Coleman was a true original and could charm you to death on one hand then immediately go into a heartbreaking closeup reaction shot. The big one is in Lost Horizon, but there's an equally striking moment in the Selznick A Tale of Two Cities WAC did recently when Coleman's Sydney finds his beloved does not share those feelings.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Maybe paired with a 4k of Ryan's Daughter?

We can dream right? Even just a Blu-ray would be spectacular. If they even know of the film people love to berate it-but this is one of those films everyone should see simply for the photography alone.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

We can dream right? Even just a Blu-ray would be spectacular. If they even know of the film people love to berate it-but this is one of those films everyone should see simply for the photography alone.

I finally saw it, and I liked it! It’s not his best, but did not deserve the attacks it got!

[captainsolo]

The overall reception hurt Lean considerably. While most of the criticism was pretty on point and discussing some of the issues there were others who got nasty for no reason like Richard Schickel.
The film also had the misfortune of coming around the time of MGM about to go into their never ending financial woes and the backlash against big budget epic length roadshows.

[Leviathan]

Originally Posted by playingphysicist

If it will assuage your worries a bit, remember what George has said in the past - -that WAC has made more many each passing year (not less), and that the staff of people they actually employ is rather small.

Since he was rehired, George has also been assigned more hats to wear than just maintaining the archive. Apparently, he even has a seat at HBO Max now.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Night Nurse and Baby Face would make a great 2fer release.

Absolutely. Doubly so since the DVDs can suffer rot. My DVD of Forbidden Hollywood V1 is rotted so I can't watch the restored Baby Face at all unless I find another rot free set or rebuy it as the MOD Archive repress. Of course the rot only affected the uncut pre-release version and not the cut theatrical version. I've held off in the hopes that it would be redone as a WAC BD.

Speaking of this, the WB DVD rot issue just came up again in the WAC facebook group with someone finding their Tarzan Volume 1 set had gone bad. For those who have a number of classic boxsets and titles you haven't played in a while be sure and check things you have from the manufacture period of 2006-2009. I posted the list I made of known affected titles earlier in the thread but here it is again so you don't have to dig around: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1CyLG...iletype=msword

Since people asked me on facebook if I had had any news I wrote WHV again to see if I could get a response. The last I had heard was two years ago when they said they would get back to me-but this of course was at the start of Covid and before the restructuring.