Why last week's fire sale was a mistake...

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by Coltboy

My Wally World had about 30 HD players and 2 Blu-ray players and now they are down to 1 BD player and 2 HD players. someone is buying them i really hope they just moved them to the back in the stock room but i dunno

Here is some speculation to add to this. At $99.00 for an HD DVD player, customers may initially pick this up to play both DVD and HD DVD. ("For 99 bucks, how can I lose?") They may not even have an HD set yet, but are getting prepared for the future. By that time, there will be so little studio support for HD DVD, (and we all see it crumbling bit by bit before our eyes right now) that the practical use or investing in HD DVD disks will be practically nill. And anyway, BD players by that time will be so affordable and WILL have all of the bells and whistles on them for much less than we are paying now. They will simply go out and buy a BD player after seeing how many studios support blu compared to HD DVD. The other thing is that many of these are most likely Christmas presents. Bought cheap by uninformed customers. Expect many returns to the store too!

[Little Nellie]

where did you guys see the ad for an A2 for $99? Amazon is selling it for $197.

[bluflu]

I heard Denon has plans to release a HD DVD player next month for $50.

[SingingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by doctorxring

I hate to have 2 decks on my counter
just to play DVD, HD-DVD, and BD but I may do it. It seems a
reasonable, low risk start in an uncertain future for either of these
formats. As for sourcing I'd probably just go with NetFlix until the
format war takes it's toll. So my attach rate would be ZERO (for now).

dxr

Why would you have to?

There is now a dual-format HD-DUD/Blu-ray drive for less than $300. It's made by LG.

Oh, wait. You said counter, not computer.

[KingDeezie]

I clearly do not claim that the sky is by any means falling, but I do think that this step by Toshiba, be it desperate or not, could certainly level the playing field...

Most average people claim DVD is sufficient for their veiwing purposes, so for them to consider paying 400 dollars for a HD media player might damn well be out of the question at this point in time...

Toshiba just sold a junk load of these players because of how they were priced; not much more then an upconverting DVD player...

The sorry news is that most of us on here will never decide the future of HDM.

I've spent well over 10,000 dollars on my home theater equipment, and demand the best for such things, which is why I choose Bluray. I am sure a lot of other people feel the exact same as I do. Why would I spend all of this money and then connect a 99 dollar player?

The sad injustice of the whole mess is that most people spend much less and are happy with just good enough.

Which is why HD-DVD still has a fighting chance unfortunately. Cheap players that offer to the average consumer a "stunning" picture is enough to get HD-DVD rolling much farther then anyone of us want...

The harsh reality is that the PS3 can not be the harbinger of Bluray. Something about it being a videogame console creates a certain taboo in relationship to it being a bluray player...

Stand alone players are what make formats, and right now the BDA just can't compete with 99 dollar firesales....

Come the end of this holiday season, we know full well we will see players at 199.00 for the HD-DVD group, but have we heard any concrete news about anything for a BD player?

Is a 300 dollar BD player low enough to beat out the 200 dollar HD-DVD player?

Do you think that the average joe has any idea that only Toshiba makes HD-DVD players when they walk up into a BB or CC?

At this point in the game its not about weekly sales, its about market penetration both in units sold and awareness....

The BDA needs to step up or something needs to happen before we end up in a stalemate....

HD-DVD isn't going away on its own...

HD-DVD is herpes. Everytime you think you got over an outbreak and that the virus is in remission, it pops back up.

The BDA needs to start handing out condoms before everybody gets that shit...

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by bluflu

I heard Denon has plans to release a HD DVD player next month for $50.

I'm not exactly sure what my point is, but it took at least 15 years for DVD players to even start to come close to these prices. Of course now you can practically get them in your cereal box.

[Blu-Nightingale]

yep, the return excuse will be this:

"I would like to return this because it can't read my Spiderman 3, Ratatouille,
Superbad, POC: DMC, Live Free or Die Hard, Oceans 13, and The Simpsons on BD, WTF, I want my money back!!!"

or simply...

"Oops, I meant to buy a Blu-Ray player, my bad"

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by Blu-Nightingale

yep, the return excuse will be this:

"I would like to return this because it can't read my Spiderman 3, Ratatouille,
Superbad, POC: DMC, Live Free or Die Hard, Oceans 13, and The Simpsons on BD, WTF, I want my money back!!!"

or simply...

"Oops, I meant to buy a Blu-Ray player, my bad"

Awsome!!!

[doctorxring]

I've spent a wad on my HT set up recently as well. IF ALL TITLES
were available on High Definition disk I would drop another grand
in a minute on a player. But as it is the titles available on either
HD-DVD or BluRay Disk are a drop in the bucket.....

dxr

Originally Posted by KingDeezie

I clearly do not claim that the sky is by any means falling, but I do think that this step by Toshiba, be it desperate or not, could certainly level the playing field...

Most average people claim DVD is sufficient for their veiwing purposes, so for them to consider paying 400 dollars for a HD media player might damn well be out of the question at this point in time...

Toshiba just sold a junk load of these players because of how they were priced; not much more then an upconverting DVD player...

The sorry news is that most of us on here will never decide the future of HDM.

I've spent well over 10,000 dollars on my home theater equipment, and demand the best for such things, which is why I choose Bluray. I am sure a lot of other people feel the exact same as I do. Why would I spend all of this money and then connect a 99 dollar player?

The sad injustice of the whole mess is that most people spend much less and are happy with just good enough.

Which is why HD-DVD still has a fighting chance unfortunately. Cheap players that offer to the average consumer a "stunning" picture is enough to get HD-DVD rolling much farther then anyone of us want...

The harsh reality is that the PS3 can not be the harbinger of Bluray. Something about it being a videogame console creates a certain taboo in relationship to it being a bluray player...

Stand alone players are what make formats, and right now the BDA just can't compete with 99 dollar firesales....

Come the end of this holiday season, we know full well we will see players at 199.00 for the HD-DVD group, but have we heard any concrete news about anything for a BD player?

Is a 300 dollar BD player low enough to beat out the 200 dollar HD-DVD player?

Do you think that the average joe has any idea that only Toshiba makes HD-DVD players when they walk up into a BB or CC?

At this point in the game its not about weekly sales, its about market penetration both in units sold and awareness....

The BDA needs to step up or something needs to happen before we end up in a stalemate....

HD-DVD isn't going away on its own...

HD-DVD is herpes. Everytime you think you got over an outbreak and that the virus is in remission, it pops back up.

The BDA needs to start handing out condoms before everybody gets that shit...

[mtl007]

MS won the office suite war at $99 because they are still making money out of it. Toshiba's $99 is a lose for every sale. Bleeding faster is not the way to do business.

As some mentioned already, a lot of people will wait for the next $99 sale on the A3s and will stall new unit sales because the price is halved every couple of months anyways. I think this temporary A2 volume boost will even out over the couple of months of Nov - Dec.

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by mtl007

MS won the office suite war at $99 because they are still making money out of it. Toshiba's $99 is a lose for every sale. Bleeding faster is not the way to do business.

As some mentioned already, a lot of people will wait for the next $99 sale on the A3s and will stall new unit sales because the price is halved every couple of months anyways. I think this temporary A2 volume boost will even out over the couple of months of Nov - Dec.

Toshiba should have Micronuts put their game players up for 99 clams too. See how far that suggestion goes with the greediest most cut-throat company on the planet.

[swifty7]

I did buy dud for 98 clams and to tell you the truth I didn't really like the picture quality too much neither from upscaled dvd's nor HD movies. It looks somewhat blurry to me specially during motion(I have plasma) on the other hand my ps3 BD movies specially tier 0 look as sharp as a tack with better color fedility and no noticable blurriness during motion.

[beavis667]

If you remember after 9/11, the auto companies first offered 0% financing on cars, and they got alot of them to sell. GM and Ford enjoyed record sales. When those insentives went away, people quit buying cars. Nowadays, it takes huge insentives an 0% to get people into the car lot to buy a new car, and GM and Ford are still losing money. Toyota and Honda on the other hand have maintained their price levels and offered fewer insentives, maintained the perception of quality, and continued to grow in sales.

I think alot of the same principles apply to the HD-DVD situation. Frankly, the same thing happens after a huge BD software sale, but BD has the installed base that sales don't dip too low. As it is now, anyone who doesn't care about what kind of player they are getting (ie, people who will buy a 1080i 5.1 player) won't pull the trigger on one until there are like sales.

In the end, I feel the 90k sold will be minimal impact compared to the number of 40gb ps3's sold, as well as the upper model buyout the release of the 40gb unit started.

[davidPS3]

Good point on the sale of the A2 and now what do they expect to do with the A3 coming out with the higher retail? Will the customer wait and see if this one will drop as well? Bottom line though is the software sales. Will customers be buying the hd dvd discs??

[patrick99]

"help with my $98 A2 I just picked up, before I give up on HD DVD"



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=936168

[ikbradley]

Originally Posted by KingDeezie

At this point in the game its not about weekly sales, its about market penetration both in units sold and awareness....

The BDA needs to step up or something needs to happen before we end up in a stalemate....

HD-DVD isn't going away on its own...

HD-DVD is herpes. Everytime you think you got over an outbreak and that the virus is in remission, it pops back up.

The BDA needs to start handing out condoms before everybody gets that shit...

Your words are prophetic and ring true. A generation from now people will hail KingDeezie. HD-DVD is a virus of cheapness. I can't for the life of me think why someone would purchase HD-DVD with the content it currently provides. Cheap thrills, just like a hooker from Tijuana! Got penicillin?

[patrick99]

This is my new favorite forum :

"Getting tired of error code: 408bc504"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=810932

[patrick99]

"A30: Doesn't Work for HD DVDs; Multiple Error Codes"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=910378

[Luis_A51]

Originally Posted by cpgator

Not faulty at all. Just like DVD players - the higher quality players with better specs sell for a higher price. HD-DVD players are the same - there are higher priced models that offer more quality, just like there is a range in BD players.

The argument is since there was an HD-DVD player for $100, no one would ever spend more. But there are cheaper DVD players, but some people still buy expensive players. You can pick up a BD player for $500, but some people will still pay $1000 for higher quality. Some people will pay $400 for a PS3, and others will want the additional specs and pay more.

Just because there is a basic model (of anything) priced low, does not mean no one would ever spend more - if that was true, we would all be driving Yugos.

You both misunderstood.

The A2 went from $200 to $100 then back to $200. People will NOT buy it at $200. If the PS3 (40gig) went from $400 to $200 to $400 again you would see a huge spike at $200 and a huge drop for a long time at $400.

THis isnt about spending more for higher quality. Its about spending more for the same thing.

Even the A3 is still 1080i I believe, and its $200-300. No real quality improvement.

[Luis_A51]

Originally Posted by yakman

So does that mean Sony is going to have to eat all the $500 PS3 now that the public has seen a $400 PS3?

To quote you again:

The 60gig was initially $600. Its now $450. Do you think they would sell any at all if they raised it back to $600? Their sales figures would tank horribly.

The A2 and A3 are essentially the same. People will not be interested in paying much more than the $100 A2 firesale price. Sales of A3s will be even worse than they were before the sale.