Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

It's quite puzzling to me that the same "fans" who want the OUT without CGI-additions are the same people who want all the OT-lightsabers to be replaced by new prequel-style blades. Lucas was always very respectful of the work that was put in the original effects, masks, puppets and performances. Otherwise the changes could have gone much, much further. The fan-reaction is a disgrace!

This is one of your most laughable posts yet.

For one thing, Lucas hasn't always been "respectful" of the old special effects. He has changed and replaced things where he has felt it is most needed. If he has left a puppet or person in a suit in place, it's most likely because he is fine with that version. And he did go ahead and enhance some of the Ewoks' eyes this time around, so while the original suit is still being used, it was digitally enhanced in some way (I'm not complaining about this change, I'm just merely pointing it out). Also, part of the reason why he hasn't gone further with some of this stuff may not necessarily be out of "respect" for the old effects, but Lucas being overly budget-conscious. He is rather tight-fisted when it comes to spending money, despite him having absurd amounts of it. Perhaps if that wasn't as much of an issue, he would have gone further with some changes.

The other part of the problem with your post here (and many over the course of time) is that you look at everything from a very black-and-white view point. It's always people who 100% only want the UOT vs. people who are completely find and happy with the updates and PT. There are MANY shades of gray inbetween.

Many who do want the UOT just want that released in addition to the updated versions. And they wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the updated versions if it was for certain select changes that have been talked about ad nausium. It doesn't mean that at least some of these people don't appreciate some of the updated effects on some level of another. And they would perhaps like to see the updated versions look more consistent... rather than having some effects updated and smoothed out, but then have other older effects stand out like a sore thumb (i.e. the sabers... both the jump cuts when they are ignitied, and the blade effects, themselves). Why does Lucas have so much supposed "respect" for those effects but not the others that he updated/replaced? 2 and 2 just aren't quite adding up to 4 with your argument here.

[mwmartin]

Originally Posted by crs

Well, III is probably the best looking of the bunch. But I must say I was pretty impressed by how good the PQ was on IV, age and all other things considered. Definition and detail is mostly surprisingly good. Sometimes the black levels are all over the place. The most noticable thing for me, going from III to IV, was the fine layer of grain in IV. AQ wise, IV doesn't come close to I-III, but that was as expected.

crs,

Can you comment on the look of Luke's lightsaber during the training scene on the Millenium Falcon in Episode IV? Is it blue throughout or does it change color (blue to aqua) as is apparently seen on the leaked rip? Thanks.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Breather

You don't just post a different opinion. You use words like "fans" in quotes as a way of labeling people who disagree with certain things Star Wars or Lucas because you just can't stand it for some odd, odd reason. You use it derisively and you know it.

No one in here hates Star Wars. As I told your brother, everyone that bothers to post here loves Star Wars in one way or another, or they wouldn't be here. What you guys can't seem to tolerate are people who don't love the same things about it as you do. This is a Star Wars thread. Opinions vary and they should. You like to pretend in your fantasy that Star Wars cannot have anything said about it that's not 100% positive. It bothers you so much that you attack people for it. You were in here the other morning calling those that disagree with you "stupid" and posting "we want the UOT" over and over again for five lines.

Oh, come on! I've read this thread the last few days! It's one thing to critizise the movies but quite another to post "Lucas is mad and greedy, his daughter is chubby", and so on. What has that got to do with a sane discussion!? Just for your convenience: I don't love everything about the movies without questioning. I could do without all the muppets in Jabbas palace as well as the new music-number and C-3POs antics in the droid factory on Geonosis - but these are minor issues to me. First and foremost I love what George Lucas has created over the years. The Star Wars saga is a great achievement in art, wisdom and technology.

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

With that said, by all means argue over a single word of dialogue, a slight change of color of a lightsaber, or blinking Ewoks, or whatever the hell else you guys can find a way to bitch about. These changes don't alter the message of the films and certainly should not deter any sane individual from being able to enjoy the films as is, whether you're for the changes or not. In a couple of weeks I'm going to be watching Star Wars in HD with lossless audio. That is something I've literally been waiting for for over a decade for. You guys cancelling your pre-orders over non-sensical fanboy ramblings can choose not to all you want. I hope your content with your decision. Me, I'm gonna have lightsabers kicking my subwoofers ass for a few hours.

+1. While I don't agree with all the changes, I'll still be enjoying the Blu-rays.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

That's awesome!

Those would be great.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by danny_boy

There is a clear discrepancy between the optical greenish element used for Lukes saber(seen below right) and the optical blusih elements used for Obi(below left).

You actually proved why the sabre is green in the one shot but not the obi-wan shot. Just looks the the two images. The Luke one has a very green/ yellow black area while the other one has a better black level. The obi-wan final shot also doesn't have the same yellow cast that the falcon one does. Check the first VHS pressing, which was before thx etc, and you will see that the sabre isn't green. Its just the way the two scenes were presented in the documenatry, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

James Earl Jones was always a more important part of the Vader-persona to me than David Prowse. This new final scream of agony when Anakin breaks free of the Dark Side is very powerful a clear improvement. It's just out of spite that "fans" don't like it.

That's got to be one of the funniest ting i've heard when giving a reason why the reaction has been negative towards the Vader Noooooo in ROTJ. Out of spite? oh come on. Why is it that if anyone hates a change done to these things or speaks out you always claim it is spiteful? So how do you account for many fans who have always defended the changes George Lucas has made hating this addition also? You can't blame it on people hating the prequels or the special editions because these are people that love those films. And it certainly isn't a clear improvement. It worked perfectly well for almost 30 years and it now makes a dramatic scene laughable.

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

It's quite puzzling to me that the same "fans" who want the OUT without CGI-additions are the same people who want all the OT-lightsabers to be replaced by new prequel-style blades. Lucas was always very respectful of the work that was put in the original effects, masks, puppets and performances. Otherwise the changes could have gone much, much further. The fan-reaction is a disgrace![/B]

Always with the aggression towards any fan that disagrees with something George does. He is NOT a God you know. Most of the fans who want the OUT restored want them just cleaned up without any tweaks to effect etc. They don't want the lightsabres redone for the preservation at all. They just comment about these special editions. If the OUT was preserved in the same high qiality as the "special special special editions" at least we would ahve the option to ignore these changes, but we don't. instead we are told constantly "you have them on DVD so shut up" or "if you don't like them, don't buy them". I can imagine you would be the one in an uproar if george had never released the prequels on blu-ray, so that you would only have your DVD versions. But don't you think that if they are going to spend all that time adding eyes and blinks to certain Ewoks, a reflections to a window, masking out a puppeteers arm etc, then they should have at least fixed the all the sabre issues and not just a few cores here and there. After all, some of these additions have only been put in to connect the two trilogies, so why leave the lightsabres looking like they do? Surely re-rotoscoping the lightsabres to look like their prequel counterparts should be the top priority to accomplish this?

[amoergosum]

@ Shaft Windu
>>>
...do you think you're gonna convince anyone with that quote (in bold)
in your signature? ...

[crs]

Originally Posted by mwmartin

crs,

Can you comment on the look of Luke's lightsaber during the training scene on the Millenium Falcon in Episode IV? Is it blue throughout or does it change color (blue to aqua) as is apparently seen on the leaked rip? Thanks.

As the youtube video of the scene someone posted a couple of pages back, yes, the BD is exactly like that. The scene starts with the lightsaber clearly being blue, but then for the remainder it has a thicker white core and a faint aqua/cyan glow. I thought the glow had touches of green sometimes too, if you look closely.

[ckocher]

I agree with Kryptonic, people need to chill out. It's Star Wars, not the end of the world. Who cares if George decides to change something here or there? He's not changing the stories of the films at all.

George owns tge entire Star Wars franchise. He can do what he wants with it. If you don't want to buy the bluray's that's fine.

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by goldenrod

Quote from Bill Hunt:

When I heard this, I couldn't help thrusting my arms up in the air in a bit of happy relief. I then turned to Matt (a Lucasfilm representative), who as it happens was standing right next to me, and saw him give a little smile and nod - he knew exactly what I was reacting to. When I leaned over to thank him for fixing it, his simple reply made me smile as well: "Trust me, I read the blogs too..."

When I read this for the first time, I could help but shake my head. A five letter word immediately came into my head, regardless of whether its true or not. For a reviewer to be so chummy with a studio representative directly affiliated with a release that he´s going to be reviewing is not a good sign IMO. It reminded me of his involvement in the green tint business of FOTR EE.

[jrmac2000]

I have also never figured out why George hasn't just remade the original trilogy with the actors from the prequels. Honestly I would rather him done this instead of the constant tinkering. Of course we would have a whole new debate on our hands had that happened.

[phoenixram1977]

I will be picking up the original trilogy instead of the complete saga, and will also pick up revenge of the sith when it comes out on its own.

[StarksRevenge]

Actually, I would argue that the substantive changes in the OT have changed the meaning of the movies. The movies, as Lucas always said prior to about 1997, was the hero's journey of Luke.

Now, the substantive changes to the 2004 DVD and now even more to the Blu Ray indicates that the movies were never about Luke. They were always about Darth Vader turning. The changing of the Force Ghost to Hayden, and the "NOOOO" clearly indicate it was Anakin's choice, and not the right decisions made by Luke.

The smaller changes - Han shooting first, Jedi Rocks, the crappy Mos Eisley shots - well those are just the usual Lucas changes, take it as you will. But the "NOOOO" and the "Hayden Force Ghost" are the two major changes that, at least for me, cause the biggest problems.

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by adywan

Surely re-rotoscoping the lightsabres to look like their prequel counterparts should be the top priority to accomplish this?

Bingo. If they're going to be making changes (and NO changes from the original would be fine with me), then why not start here? It's a quick, cheap, and simple way to add some consistency among all the films. It would be priority 1 on my list if I were going to "tweak" all the films to look alike.

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by ariakon

Do you really want to spend that incredible gift of chance, eighty years at the upper limit, arguing so vehemently about 3 seconds of a movie that you did not create?

I see your point, but I have 20 minutes to kill before breakfast; I don't intend to spend a significant part of my life on this issue.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by adywan

Always with the aggression towards any fan that disagrees with something George does. He is NOT a God you know. Most of the fans who want the OUT restored want them just cleaned up without any tweaks to effect etc. They don't want the lightsabres redone for the preservation at all. They just comment about these special editions. If the OUT was preserved in the same high qiality as the "special special special editions" at least we would ahve the option to ignore these changes, but we don't. instead we are told constantly "you have them on DVD so shut up" or "if you don't like them, don't buy them". I can imagine you would be the one in an uproar if george had never released the prequels on blu-ray, so that you would only have your DVD versions. But don't you think that if they are going to spend all that time adding eyes and blinks to certain Ewoks, a reflections to a window, masking out a puppeteers arm etc, then they should have at least fixed the all the sabre issues and not just a few cores here and there. After all, some of these additions have only been put in to connect the two trilogies, so why leave the lightsabres looking like they do? Surely re-rotoscoping the lightsabres to look like their prequel counterparts should be the top priority to accomplish this?

+1 on this. I just don't understand why some cannot see things from the other POV? I understand there are plenty who think the new additions to each film is fine. That's cool, enjoy the movies. But its seems the minute someone says: "I don't like the new lines in Jedi..." they are labeled a 'Lucas hater' and somehow they interprete the dislike of new additions as saying: "Lucas raped my childhood." Seriously, I cannot recall seeing anyone type that in this thread since like page 500. Then comes the insipid discussion of one not being a 'true fan.'

These people have no subjectivity on the matter. Its either you love EVERYTHING or you hate EVERYTHING. That is insane, shades of gray kids, not black and white. I love the OT but dislike the changes, that doesn't mean I think Katie Lucas is fat (but, uh, George might want to do a push up or two...) nor does that mean I want the OT released with 'all new effects and such.' Just release it in HD with warts and all (but the correct color..lol, that is my biggest bone of contention and why I think this verison of the OT on blu is not worth my money).

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

James Earl Jones was always a more important part of the Vader-persona to me than David Prowse. This new final scream of agony when Anakin breaks free of the Dark Side is very powerful a clear improvement. It's just out of spite that "fans" don't like it.

I posted this in the UK thread:

The 'No!' makes no sense at all now, it's almost like he wants to detract from David Prowse's performance with that awful bellowing. Vader was almost a silent movie villain in the first place he never needed reams of dialogue and that wasn't a moment that needed any at all. It was all in Prowse's performance. He looked at his son and he looked at the Emperor, he made his mind up and went for it. We can see the emotions buried deep underneath the levels of machinery. It never needed changes. It was perfect.

It takes an amazing performance and I think David Prowse's one was pretty good to convey thoughts and feelings without talking and most of Vader's scenes and emotions are silent. James Earl Jones does a good job don't get me wrong but it's just his voice (a wonderful one at that). He's also usually the first one to point out that he wasn't the guy in the suit. Prowse was so much more than that. The 'No' at the end of Sith is one of the Saga's most terrible moments one I cringe at everytime I see it. Maybe if Lucas had introduced Vader earlier it may have worked. Both (or rather all three) 'No's' are out of character. The idea that everything needs to fit into a nice neat liitle package is one of the great flaws of the prequels, it was never needed. Life isn't perfect and it sure isn't symmetrical (unless you love The Lion King).

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by chip75

It takes an amazing performance and I think David Prowse's one was pretty good to convey thoughts and feelings without talking and most of Vader's scenes and emotions are silent. James Earl Jones does a good job don't get me wrong but it's just his voice (a wonderful one at that). He's also usually the first one to point out that he wasn't the guy in the suit. Prowse was so much more than that. The 'No' at the end of Sith is one of the Saga's most terrible moments one I cringe at everytime I see it. Maybe if Lucas had introduced Vader earlier it may have worked. Both (or rather all three) 'No's' are out of character. The idea that everything needs to fit into a nice neat liitle package is one of the great flaws of the prequels, it was never needed. Life isn't perfect and it sure isn't symmetrical (unless you love The Lion King).

Excellent post dude.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by 42041

TPM in 3D is going to tank. Does George really think he can rekindle the hype at this point? I know the Toy Story 3D reissues did merely okay-ish business back when it was much more novel, and people actually like those movies (and they don't need phony 3D conversions).

A 3D release of an existing film does not need to do really big business to be profitable. In addition, it serves as a marketing promotion for the BD to follow. That's why when many classics are released on BD, they're frequently accompanied by a short theatrical run.

If it does $30 million worldwide, which is not very much, that's more than enough. People here will think that if it doesn't do $200 million then it will be considered a failure, but you can't compare it to a new film. Most of it will be digital distribution and the distribution costs are relatively low (much lower than a film print). The only real substantial cost is marketing cost.

People who are not geeks or obsessive-compulsive types (this forum does not represent the "average" fan) who saw this film as a kid will now take their kids to see it. Or will just see it again by themselves. They're not going to care what colors the lightsabers are or if a few shots are changed or if Yoda is a puppet or CGI. They won't really remember what the original was like on a shot-by-shot basis.

And personally, I'm not a fan of 3D, so I personally don't care if it's released or not. I actually wish theatrical 3D would die as it's ruining 2D digital projection because many theatres are leaving the 3D filters on when projecting 2D films.

This "hatred" for George is ridiculous. The average person doesn't either hate or love George Lucas. The average person doesn't place more of an emotional investment in a movie or its creator than they do in the rest of their lives.

[StarksRevenge]

Yeah, the average person may not care about George Lucas, but they sure didn't like The Phantom Menace.