Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

I've seen and "own" the DeSpecialized versions...

*edit*
But not in HD...

Holy shit. My mind is blown. This is great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHfLX_TMduY

[ry35an]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Holy shit. My mind is blown. This is great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHfLX_TMduY

Pretty F'N awesome!

[-RONIN-]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

To call something "The Complete Saga" and retail for $130 it should include every version of the films and all of the previous extras from VHS, laserdisc and DVD. It should actually be called "Star Wars: The Complete Saga...Of The Bastardized Version With A Few Extras Thrown In." But I doubt they could fit that on the spine.

Damn, you have to start buying movies you want when they first come out. I paid $69 for my complete collection. $130 is a ripoff

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Dellamorte13

As much as I love what Adywan has done to fix certain technical flaws, I think he should leave the movies alone for the most part. I can't watch the Vader/Obi-Wan duel in ANH with Duel of the Fates playing. I laugh/cringe every time.

Check out the "despecialized" versions. THESE are the only versions I watch now.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/top...W/topic/12713/

Yeah, if I want to see some hack ruin Star Wars with a load of stupid changes then I'll play the proper Special Editions, thanks.

However, credit where credit's due: Harmy's versions are amazing. I'd forgotten how fast paced the theatrical version of Star Wars actually is, as the SE bogs it down something chronic, and it's not just the extra scenes but the expanded camera moves as well. It all adds up and bloats the movie badly, but that theatrical edition is just fantastic.

Lucas along with Dennis Muren and Richard Edlund have made clear their dissatisfaction with the VFX technology of that time, but I wonder how they'd react if the original version of Star Wars was given as good a digital overhaul as possible, i.e. recomping the original elements, scanning the VistaVision stuff in at 6K or higher, correcting slight goofs (like the background sky mismatch of Luke outside the homestead, or the 'forcefield' Vaseline blob under the Mos Eisley speeder) and so on. I think that the original CRI negative (one of four stocks used IIRC) is gone, faded, but there would be enough copies of that footage to enable the work to be completed at a high standard.

[al cos.]

Originally Posted by Dellamorte13

Check out the "despecialized" versions. THESE are the only versions I watch url]

WOW that's really good. So much better than the 2011 piece of crap.

[HeavyHitter]

I would love to get those Harmy versions in HD on a BD-R, but have no blu burner. Might have to invest in one.

[-RONIN-]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I would love to get those Harmy versions in HD on a BD-R, but have no blu burner. Might have to invest in one.

If you have a HTPC that is another option

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Ah, the "dying of a broken heart" argument again. I swear, I don't really think people truly understand why Lucas went that route with Padme.

Considering the operatic and classical nature of the Prequels, I can understand why it slips past people, that moment.

And enough of the BS about Padme not being a strong character in Episode III. Just another BS argument.

Originally Posted by octagon

Yeah, that was the problem with "We don't know why. She has lost the will to live'.

It was too sophisticated.

You know, I have been on the Internet since about 1992. I have been on many, many discussion groups, BBS, and message boards. And I am still constantly amazed by the level of complete arrogance and the superiority complexes demonstrated on this site. Particularly when it's pithy, mean-spirited and isn't backed up whatsoever.

On most serious discussion boards people who act that way at least take the time to prove their supposed superiority - but here it's perfectly acceptable to "hit'n run". In fact, they cannot help it - it's part of the complex. Even if they want to be rude about it, they know they aren't going to get away with it - but here it's perfectly acceptable to be rude and just say "BS" a few times instead of explaining yourself. It's quite fascinating, if still sad.

So, do either of you care to educate the utterly stupid people like myself who supposedly don't understand some esoteric meaning behind the way Lucas attempted to write himself out of the issue of Padme dying? I'd seriously appreciate being educated here if somehow I am completely ignorant. Padme is my favorite character in the prequels, by a very wide margin, but I can't gut the last ten minutes of her because it simply was not in her character.

I honestly would love if you could explain the inconsistencies here so I don't feel like I have to get up and go get a snack or go to the bathroom at that point in the film because I just can't watch it's again because it does not go with anything else presented about the character in the previous two films, and most of the third.

The only alternative explanation I have ever been able to come up with is that somehow Anakin drained something from her physiologically and she lived just long enough to deliver the twins. However, that would seem invalidated by the line by Obi-wan mentioned above.

It just makes no sense to me, and I am curious what I am missing, because like I said - I would love to understand if somehow I am just ignorant of why she would lose the will to live when she just delivered two children who she knew would be in life-long danger and not want to live on to protect them in any way she could.

And FYI, "because Lucas wanted to make a classical tragedy" is not an explanation for the poor writing. I am perfectly well aware of the semiotics involved in these films (I am particularly well-versed in Barthes' theories which apply particularly well to the Star Wars films). She could have died in a multitude of ways that would have been far more satisfying as a viewer and still maintained that connection. That's why it feels as if the simplest answer is the most likely - that Lucas needed to resolve her character, ran out of time because he had written himself into a corner, and she died "of a broken heart".

Like I said, though, please - I am more than willing to be proven wrong. So bring out those refrences and sources, and explain to me what I am missing. It would really be great if you could, because as it is I just have to block that part out because to me it seems so inherently inconsistent with everything else known about the character.

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

can't call me a die-hard Trek fan because I am not that old yet! I did buy the 2009 bluray hoping it would grow on me but it has grown mold sitting on my shelf and Into Darkness isn't entering my life at all. meh, to each their own but I just think people need to be careful and not get thier hopes up to high. I think he will do better with Star Wars than with Star Trek but do we have lower standards now because of Episodes 1-3? will we be saying "they are better than the prequels" instead of "those were great movies"? or will we be saying "boy, i wish he had taken more chances with it"?

Those are definitely some astute observations.

In this case, though, I don't think it's going to be nearly as much of a problem this time.

The three main issues with the prequels (which, for the record, I don't hate):

* They were not stories that anyone really asked to be told (as a kid, I was quite satisfied with Obi-wan's summary of the Clone Wars, I didn't need it spelled out in such explicit detail and I never heard anyone ask)

* The destruction of Darth Vader as a villain - half of the appeal of his character was his mystery and we couldn't have had any more intimacy with him if we had given him a gynecological examination

* Particularly with the reception to Episode I, he Internet was new, and the demographic was much more specific than it is today when virtually everyone has access, so those who were most disposed to dislike it were also the ones who were most well-versed in how to use it at the time

Now, there are a lot of other issues to be had, but these big pratfalls are not there this time.

I personally didn't go into the prequels with any expectations. I think that excuse is valid but a bit overblown - there are always people who have fantasy-versions built up in their heads that no films like those could ever meet. And there are no constraints on the story like the prequels - they can lead wherever they lead, naturally, and not have to end with certain criteria met or somehow invalidate something else.

In this case, I am again going in with an open mind. I think you are correct that overall expectations are lower due to the prequels, which is probably a good thing. But I look at what Abrams has done with Trek, and I honestly don't think anyone else could have done it right the way he did - when I hear "reboot" my interest level on anything is reduced by a significant magnitude. The way he came up with to do it was just brilliant - he managed to reboot, with new actors no less, yet still not crap over everything that came before it in a way that was entirely plausible in the Trek universe.

Lucas is a visionary, but he's (admittedly) not much of a practical writer (dialogue, structure, etc.), and while his directing is competent it's nothing remarkable. I think Abrams excels at both, and not only that, they are hiring exactly the right people to participate, many of whom had their hands in the original trilogy and/or have proven themselves in similar circumstances. Disney is in dire need of more live-action franchises aside from Marvel, and I think they have proven with that overall franchise that they are willing to let the experts do the jobs (which is why the cries and fears of it being "Disney-fied" were completely ignorant).

To me, the best evidence of this? The fact that Abrams is filming them. Like, on actual, real, 35mm film. That to me bodes well knowing that someone who has as much care and respect for the franchise as I do is in charge, which is very reassuring indeed.

[MacEachaidh]

Wow, BillieCassin! Seriously great post.

I broadly agree with your comments on the three main issues with the prequels, but I have a fourth one that to me was the most significant:

Lucas tore off his Joseph Campbell Merit Badge and flung it into the mud.

I understand that in making the prequels Lucas was squeezed between making coherent, entertaining stories and marrying the threads up with all the backstory he'd laid in the original trilogy. But this was a guy who had claimed when the first movie came out that the entire nine episodes were already pre-planned, so you'd think it shouldn't have been that hard. In the end, some of the linkages were dubious at best, but the worst thing was that he had to bend the characters to achieve it.

Padme you've already addressed; but my feeling is that in painting by numbers and in such broad strokes, he reduced most of the key players to really obvious ciphers. Anikin wasn't the tragic figure worthy of redemption that Lucas tried to claim he was — rather than have him aspire to something great and fall short bcause of inherent flaws, or have him achieve what he aspired to, only to have it turn to ashes in his mouth, Lucas made him a self-entitled, ingrate malcontent who felt everyone owed him something; his fate wasn't a tragedy, it was justice, which completely changes the complexion in which we see him in the OT, and (I think) is the reason Lucas *had* to add the "Noooooooooo!!" in RotJ, as it was the only chance he had to give Anikin the catharsis he now needed so desperately. The Jedi weren't a noble group brought down by fate or Anikin or the Emperor; they were a moribund group only really interested in self-perpetuation and of little apparent value to any of the people they were so set on telling what to do, which seriously warps how we view the scenes in the OT between Luke and either Kenobi or Yoda, and makes it questionable as to whether the return of the Jedi is a thing to be celebrated. And Obi-Wan himself is a relentless scold with a tendency to strut, who fails to contribute anything very positive at any point in the PT proceedings, other than never-ending chastisement and his ability to cut Anikin's legs off.

So much for Lucas' allegedly uncanny ability to understand Campbell's work and apply it to his writing.

As for the coming sequels, well ... I'm not at all a fan of recent Disney, formulaic as they are. Abrams notwithstanding, I fully expect they'll press Star Wars into their prefabricated moulds, just as they've done with Pixar.

[JackKnightStarman]

Couldn't of said it better about Abrams. As far as Padme's fate, how it was written is just about everything that was wrong with the prequels, not well thought out, written or directed.

While I have never been as critical about the prequels as most, I find ep III the most difficult to watch with each viewing. Ewen McGregor to me is the saving grace of the series. His performances bring what was poorly written, to a more bearable level. If you watch ep I, it's like he and Liam new their performances would be better than what they were given to work with.

I love everything about Star Wars. I was 4 in 1977 when my family saw ep IV in theatres. Saw IV and V multiple times, during initial runs and rereleases. Ep VI was the only one I watched once in theatres. I was so disappointed with what it was and even though I bought it when it came out on VHS, it wasn't in as heavy a rotation as IV and V. Like many kids of that era, I made uncle George a billionaire with purchasing everything that was licensed. I even remember my disappointment when I received the letter from Kenner explaining why they didn't send me that damn rocket firing Boba Fett. Hell, if it wasn't for Star Wars, I never would have discovered Star Trek in syndication, and it's horribly animated cartoon follow-up. That goes for Battlestar Galactica too. My thirst for sci-fi was unquenchable at a young age.

After ep VI, when Lucas announced the prequels in the early '90's, I was excited but I really tempered that with remembering my disappointment with VI. I really had no expectations going in to ep I. I tried to avoid all the hype but really didn't do a good job. My wife, we were just dating at the time, helped with keeping me grounded in terms of expectations with it. Went to back to back showings opening night, and didn't seem to be as disappointing as Jedi was to me. I knew that with this being the most anticipated movie of all time, it would never match what expectations I had or anyone's. It just wasn't ME writing it, so I had felt I had no ownership, or feelings I was owed something like how many of fans feel.

What kills me is all the people who claim they know more than the actual creator. How he executes it is what should be discussed. And I think most of the fanbase does that. As fans we care. I remember back about a year or two before Raimi's first Spiderman, it leaked out that Uncle Ben's death was by car jacking. Fan's were pissed, internet petitions were made, boycotts were asked, heads were called for to be chopped for this travesty. And after people saw the movie...it wasn't even brought up again. If the creative teams treat the source material with respect, the fans and more importantly casual movie-goers will notice and show up at theatres. Look at Disney's the Lone Ranger, people saw through that turkey.

LOTR is another example. You can see the respect the filmmakers had for the source material from the very first minute teaser that was released thirteen years ago. I will admit that if they were made today, each book would have been two or three movies alone. What we probably would have got would have been even more faithful adaption, but it probably would have been more like the Potter movies with multiple directors. Would that have been better? I don't know, but many visions of one thing, especially adaptations is tricky. I for one am happy with what we got.

That's pretty much how I feel. In a perfect world you would know what was crap from the good. Abrams showed competent direction in his reboot of Star Trek and I think we should give him some credit as he is a big fan and respects the source material, and that's what's important.





Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

I've seen and "own" the DeSpecialized versions...

*edit*
But not in HD...

I have version 1 in HD burned on dual layered DVD's (AVC HD format in 720p). I upgraded to version 2 for episode 4 - burned on a blu-ray, but I wasn't aware that he had finished new versions for episodes 5 & 6. How awesome! Loved that video too. It's sad that a fan has to go to such great lengths to put out a decent edition. Just goes to show you that Georgie was giving us a load of bullcrap. He could have put out the original theatrical editions on blu-ray if he wanted.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I would love to get those Harmy versions in HD on a BD-R, but have no blu burner. Might have to invest in one.

You make it sound like you need a mortgage to get one. For £38 ($60-ish) I picked up a USB powered external drive on ebay and it works a treat.

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Holy shit. My mind is blown. This is great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHfLX_TMduY

This really is absolutely outstanding! I just don't understand how a bunch of fans can do this, and yet "professionals" manage to screw up transfers and such the way they do.

The people working on those de-specialized editions... they're real heroes :')

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You make it sound like you need a mortgage to get one. For £38 ($60-ish) I picked up a USB powered external drive on ebay and it works a treat.

Yeah, something like that would be great.

[Jumpman]

So yeah, finished the final season of the Clone Wars (****ing epic), and decided to pop in EPISODE III to see how it feels now that I've seen the exploits of our heroes in the mythic Clone Wars and frankly, EPISODE III along with the Prequels are forever changed...for the better.

Episode III, in particular, is a sadder film all the way around now. Doom just drips off the screen with the CLONE WARS series in the back of my mind. It's just damn tragic what happens to these characters. Ugh...

All I can think about is Bariss' words to the tribunal at the end of "The Wrong Jedi" when watching Episode III.

Just, bravo Lucas. Bravo.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

So, do either of you care to educate the utterly stupid people like myself who supposedly don't understand some esoteric meaning behind the way Lucas attempted to write himself out of the issue of Padme dying? I'd seriously appreciate being educated here if somehow I am completely ignorant. Padme is my favorite character in the prequels, by a very wide margin, but I can't gut the last ten minutes of her because it simply was not in her character.

I honestly would love if you could explain the inconsistencies here so I don't feel like I have to get up and go get a snack or go to the bathroom at that point in the film because I just can't watch it's again because it does not go with anything else presented about the character in the previous two films, and most of the third.

The only alternative explanation I have ever been able to come up with is that somehow Anakin drained something from her physiologically and she lived just long enough to deliver the twins. However, that would seem invalidated by the line by Obi-wan mentioned above.

It just makes no sense to me, and I am curious what I am missing, because like I said - I would love to understand if somehow I am just ignorant of why she would lose the will to live when she just delivered two children who she knew would be in life-long danger and not want to live on to protect them in any way she could.



Like I said, though, please - I am more than willing to be proven wrong. So bring out those refrences and sources, and explain to me what I am missing. It would really be great if you could, because as it is I just have to block that part out because to me it seems so inherently inconsistent with everything else known about the character.

Uh... See, Anakin actually managed to choke the life out of her using the dark side of the force. The medical droid knows nothing of the force, dark or otherwise, and had no comprehension of it killing her. Thus, it's only diagnosis that it could figure out was that "she lost the will to live," because it could see no other physical signs of why she was dying.

Yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

So yeah, finished the final season of the Clone Wars (****ing epic), and decided to pop in EPISODE III to see how it feels now that I've seen the exploits of our heroes in the mythic Clone Wars and frankly, EPISODE III along with the Prequels are forever changed...for the better.

Episode III, in particular, is a sadder film all the way around now. Doom just drips off the screen with the CLONE WARS series in the back of my mind. It's just damn tragic what happens to these characters. Ugh...

All I can think about is Bariss' words to the tribunal at the end of "The Wrong Jedi" when watching Episode III.

Just, bravo Lucas. Bravo.

Yeah, taking into account the Clone Wars series, as well as some of the EU novels and comics really enhances Episode III. I think this is because Episodes I and II (which I think are very poor movies) failed to build up the story and characters to the point where the events of Episode III really make an impact.

We get to see Anakin and Obi Wan's friendship and camaraderie. We get to see Anakin building his abilities as a Jedi Knight, as well as a military commander, and why he stands out so much as unique and powerful among the Jedi. I think the other prequel films needed to focus on this, instead of Episode I: Nothing happens and Episode II: A bad love story/Some clones show up at the end.

[RyanPom]

I personally feel a lot of Clone Wars really dumbed down Star Wars, and Sith didn't need any of that to be a good movie.

[jala12]

Originally Posted by RyanPom

I personally feel a lot of Clone Wars really dumbed down Star Wars, and Sith didn't need any of that to be a good movie.

Er, what? Please elaborate.

[RyanPom]

Originally Posted by jala12

Er, what? Please elaborate.

Lots of the dumb Jar Jar and Padme episodes, and the do nothing episodes where the droids bumble around. Is Darth Maul still alive during the Sith movie, etc.