Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Bickle76]

Originally Posted by kemcha

To those who hate on the prequels, while they will never be better than the original trilogy, I do still enjoy them, because they fill in the missing gap of the story for the origin of Darth Vader, how the Jedi Knights were annihilated, and how Palpatine became the emperor. Believe it or not, but all six films tell one complete story.p

My imagination of what transpired before ANH beats anything that was presented on screen.

I tried to meet the PT halfway and then ultimately came to terms with them just not being good for this reason alone - Lucas was never a good writer of dialogue plain and simple. Yes, he can create a story, but actual dialogue is big weakness. You best believe that ANH was polished by his USC friends Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz who were uncredited; this seems to go overlooked as I suppose it is not common knowledge to SW community. What about American Graffiti you ask? Huyck's (they married) polished that one too. THX-1138 I consider to be an experimental film that bypasses conventional dialogue, because it's avant-garde compared to AG and SW. He brought in other writers for the sequels, not just because he needed to be in the role of exec. producer, but because he's just not good at it. He shit a brick after the feedback from TPM and knew he needed to deliver with AOTC or was it AOTDrones??; so he hired Jonathan Hales and finished the script 3 days before shooting.

On a directing tip - "faster, more intense" - GL.

That was the direction the original cast got. They decided upon themselves to play it with as much charisma as possible; that was key to their success. They took matters into their own hands bc they had to prove themselves as unknowns. The principles of the PT were blind to Lucas's lack of skills working with actors, before signing on. God bless the original cast because Liam, Ewan, Natalie, and Samuel all have better acting chops than Mark, Harrison, Carrie and Billy. Why where their performances so monotone? They didn't know wtf to do. Bad dialogue, bad direction equals the most boring performances of Liam, Ewan, Natalie, and Samuel's careers. I give credit to where it's due on that one. The stars of the PT were already established and if Lucas was content with their takes, then it was all "bread and butter" to them. Ewan went on record and said TPM script was "a bit flat". He got a slap on the wrist from Lucas and never spoke critically again. To this day I'm sure Dennis Lawson aka Wedge, rubs in his more successful nephews face Ewan that he was part of something better lol. I love GL, but lets observe the facts and if the prequels still entertain you and not a kitsch way, then god bless you too....

GL seduced me into SW as a kid, I grew up only to be sexually molested by the same very person

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I don't care what anyone says. I love all six of the movies. For those who hate on the Special Edition version of the original trilogy, I can only say this: I understand your complaints about the films and while I probably would appreciate the original theatrical versions, the Special Editions just enhance my original experience. The upgraded audio, special effects and whatnot, those films are still in there, there are just upgraded options to those films.

To those who hate on the prequels, while they will never be better than the original trilogy, I do still enjoy them, because they fill in the missing gap of the story for the origin of Darth Vader, how the Jedi Knights were annihilated, and how Palpatine became the emperor. Believe it or not, but all six films tell one complete story.

The only thing that's missing from the original trilogy is the 'Han Shot First' scene and my wisdh that Lucas would include the original Biggs and Luke Tatooine scene that was cut from the first film.

Everyone is more than entitled to their opinion. If you like them (the prequels, the SE changes, etc), awesome, good for you.

But please excuse me if I don't put too much stock into the opinion of someone who had to read an article to figure out that the 20th Century Fox fanfare music that occurs before each movie while the 20th Century Fox logo is on screen is owned by 20th Century Fox and used in front of all 20th Century Fox movies, and isn't specific to just Star Wars and most likely won't carry over to the upcoming new films.

[Lord Method Man]

The story about how Anakin became Darth Vader was much more interesting when it was just an allusion made in the OT than when it was finally shown in the PT.

[Bickle76]

Originally Posted by Lord Method Man

The story about how Anakin became Darth Vader was much more interesting when it was just an allusion made in the OT than when it was finally shown in the PT.

Exactamundo Mr. Meth

[Bickle76]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I know I've just said that they shouldn't be remaking the PT, but if they did they could go in completely different directions to what Lucas did.

The engame would be the same, natch, but imagine if Anakin wasn't a moppet but rather a troubled teen, and imagine if Amidala wasn't a 14-year-old elected 'queen' of her people but a young senator who's suddenly become leader after her planet's elders get wiped out. And imagine if they didn't all talk like ****ing robots because Lucas still thinks we're in 1936.

2 cents -

An alternate version/reboot of the saga and call it -

The Adventures of Luke Starkiller, as taken from the Journal of the Whills

Keep Vader and Anakin separate characters, like when it was originally written. Who wouldn't want to see Kenobi's brightest pupil betray him and kill his best friend Anakin Starkiller. Chill out on everyone being related. Exploring the original concepts before the SW we know took shape, could be quite interesting and still provide freshness to general audiences and possibly us junkies.

I would be totally down for a re-visioning of the PT as well. To me Star Wars has already been diluted. If it were to fail, oh well, but I'm 110% sure there's a hungry filmmaker somewhere with plenty of passion for it that could execute it to successfully.

[kemcha]

The whole thing about it is that everyone has their own views and that's a good thing. We all have our own experiences and we all love these films differently and for different reasons. What I've always found so amusing is that younger fans, who weren't around when these films were first released to theaters, seem to be more fanatical about this whole theatrical vs special edition nonsense and while I really do understand why some fans don't like the special edition films, I just look at it as a brand new experience. I'm not saying it's bad only that we all love these films for different reasons. Whether you love the theatrical versions or whether you love the special editions, we all share our love for the Star Wars films and that's the only thing that should count.

After Lord of the Rings, a lot of directors, producers and movie studios started looking at re-releasing their earlier films with all new footage. Peter Jackson started that crap with the Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy and I look at Peter Jackson as destroying these movies, not George Lucas.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by kemcha

After Lord of the Rings, a lot of directors, producers and movie studios started looking at re-releasing their earlier films with all new footage. Peter Jackson started that crap with the Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy and I look at Peter Jackson as destroying these movies, not George Lucas.

Lucas released the Special Editions in 1997 and LORD OF THE RINGS didn't come out (theatrically) until 2001. So Lucas' tinkering pre-dates Jackson. Also, Peter Jackson made his Extended Editions while he was still making the Theatrical Cuts... concurrently! He was the exact same filmmaker for both cuts. Not true of Lucas. A person ages; an artist ages and is no longer the same person twenty years later. That's what I see as the huge difference between Lucas revisiting his past masterpiece and Jackson releasing multiple cuts simultaneously.

[stvn1974]

Lucas ruined the OT long before the LOTR films. Also there is a big difference between adding material that was originally shot for the film than going back decades later and digitally altering and shooting anew.

I don't have a problem with Lucas changing the films. I have stated many times that Ridley Scott's Final Cut of Blade Runner is my all time favorite film but unlike the changes to the Star Wars films Blade Runner The Final Cut doesn't suck.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Lucas ruined the OT long before the LOTR films. Also there is a big difference between adding material that was originally shot for the film than going back decades later and digitally altering and shooting anew.

I don't have a problem with Lucas changing the films. I have stated many times that Ridley Scott's Final Cut of Blade Runner is my all time favorite film but unlike the changes to the Star Wars films Blade Runner The Final Cut doesn't suck.

And... Scott/WB released all the cuts of Blade Runner, for those who prefer the Theatrical/Director's/International/Workprint versions.

[Bickle76]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Lucas ruined the OT long before the LOTR films.

Ruined to me would mean the films can no longer operate. If Kate Upton walked down the street with a few scratches and bruises, I would still consider her "fully operational".

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Bickle76

Ruined to me would mean the films can no longer operate. If Kate Upton walked down the street with a few scratches and bruises, I would still consider her "fully operational".

There really isn't a moment of the OT that isn't marred by a flawed color timing, an unbalanced sound mix or some other ridiculous post-97 change. If you aren't aware of it, then you're lucky.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by Bickle76

Ruined to me would mean the films can no longer operate. If Kate Upton walked down the street with a few scratches and bruises, I would still consider her "fully operational".

Bad analogy. Kate Upton would have to have a penis, a hump on her back and a unibrow added to compare.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Bickle76

Ruined to me would mean the films can no longer operate. If Kate Upton walked down the street with a few scratches and bruises, I would still consider her "fully operational".

What about scratches, bruises and a sex change?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by kemcha

The whole thing about it is that everyone has their own views and that's a good thing. We all have our own experiences and we all love these films differently and for different reasons. What I've always found so amusing is that younger fans, who weren't around when these films were first released to theaters, seem to be more fanatical about this whole theatrical vs special edition nonsense and while I really do understand why some fans don't like the special edition films, I just look at it as a brand new experience. I'm not saying it's bad only that we all love these films for different reasons. Whether you love the theatrical versions or whether you love the special editions, we all share our love for the Star Wars films and that's the only thing that should count.

After Lord of the Rings, a lot of directors, producers and movie studios started looking at re-releasing their earlier films with all new footage. Peter Jackson started that crap with the Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy and I look at Peter Jackson as destroying these movies, not George Lucas.

Alternate/extended cuts predate Peter Jackson by decades.

[Rambaldi47]

Originally Posted by jonschmidt

IMy main gripe about the PT is Anakin. I would've liked to see someone who was almost bipolar in nature with severe peeks and valleys - maybe keeping the violent/angry/depressed outbursts private while getting a little too caught up in his enjoyment publicly. SOMETHING that made me feel like his emotions were a major issue for his turning to the dark side.

I would've liked to have seen someone who was clearly a powerful and commanding force (which Hayden did NOT give us) as well as someone who clearly struggled with their anger issues. I expected more manipulation from Palpatine as well.

Speaking of Palpatine, the book Darth Plagueis is amazing in that it really shows all the background stuff happening during The Phantom Menace which is actually FAR more interesting than the movie itself. It also makes everything make sense! Count Dooku's manipulation, Syfo-Dias and Kamino, Darth Maul, etc. It's basically what Episode 1 should have included.

I also always thought Darth Maul should have been the Vader of the prequels. Maybe Obi-Wan cut him in half, but he came back

[Show spoiler]with robotic legs like in Clone Wars.

The big battles would be Obi-Wan vs. Maul and Anakin vs. Dooku. I liked Grievous, but he was basically a waste. Maul could've filled that role easily and would've made more sense.

[Geoff D]

Anakin should've been the Han Solo of the prequels, as a lovable rogue who ultimately gives in to his own selfish desires. That's why I think Lucas neutered Solo in the Special Edition of Star Wars, so that his own journey from darkness to light wouldn't detract from what was to come with Anakin in the prequels. Trouble is, Lucas didn't follow it up by making Anakin anything like as charismatic or sarcastic as Han, though he did get the "this is where the fun begins" line in Sith.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

There really isn't a moment of the OT that isn't marred by a flawed color timing, an unbalanced sound mix or some other ridiculous post-97 change. If you aren't aware of it, then you're lucky.

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Bad analogy. Kate Upton would have to have a penis, a hump on her back and a unibrow added to compare.

[stvn1974]

Ruining Kate Upton vs. Ruining Star Wars Special Editions.


Penis = Jedi Rocks
Hump on back = Han Shooting first
Unibrow= Hayden as Anikan Force Ghost

[octagon]

I don't totally hate unibrows.

[Gold Ranger]

There is one thing that I absolutely hate about the PT...
For years and years and years all we ever read and heard about was that Vader hunted down all of the Jedi.
The PT shows Dooku and Grevious doing much more to hurt the Jedi than Anakin did.