Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Agreed. Empire is a gorgeous movie in that regard. If the originals do get restored, I really hope it matches the original color timing. To me, that is as important as anything else.

It's a damn travesty what happened to the color of these movies on DVD and Blu.

Be careful what you wish for. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the newly restored versions have a decidedly modern-looking colour scheme.

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

It could be worse, but I still feel like the music is holding back a bit in the final reel of ROTS.

That's Ben Burtt for you. Music is the enemy of his library of precious sound effects. And I'm genuinely saddened to see his name on the credits for ep VII, because John Williams will once again have to fight tooth and nail to get his music properly represented in the new film.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Be careful what you wish for. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the newly restored versions have a decidedly modern-looking colour scheme.

That would be too bad, but cannot look worse than what we have today.

[Geoff D]

True dat. I'd buy it. But the internet will come apart at the seams if Star Wars gets given the green and yellow treatment.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Elvis

As has been stated Disney would not have paid almost 4 Billion dollars and not had complete control.

Yes, I actually think that's possible. Disney is concerned about future exploitation and ownership of the characters and trademarks in movies, books, rides and merchandise, not the relatively small amounts of revenue that re-releases of the OT can generate. Disney wants the $ hundred millions in profits that a film can generate, not the few million $ that a very successful re-release on home video might generate.

I have no insight as to whether Disney will re-release de-specialized versions of the OT or not, but I suspect not. Even aside from the rights issues, it's only the most dedicated fans who care about this - the general public does not. Don't you think that just about everyone (except for the obsessives) who wants Star Wars on home video already have it several times over and would not dip again?

Let's say that Lucas isn't lying about the original negatives being torn apart to make the special editions. That means either the original unaltered trilogy has to be re-created or they have to create it from an existing archive print (perhaps one that Lucas has secretly stashed, which he'd probably never let go for that purpose) or the one at the Library of Congress, of which it's unclear as to which version of the film that is.

If they have to re-create it, it will never perfectly match the original and the obsessive anal fans will still complain. Even if they got every frame to match the original, you know people will complain about the color balance or whatever, claiming it didn't match what they claim they saw in a theatre 35 years ago. And which version do they match it to: even the 70mm and 35mm original releases supposedly have some slight variations between them (although I don't understand how that happened since the 70mm prints were blowups).

And if they use an existing print, it's probably long faded and would have inferior sound (because of the optical soundtrack).

Everyone thinks they remember the originals, but I would bet that most don't. You'd have to be at least 47 to have seen the original in the original release (assuming one was at least 10 years old) and remember it and at least 44 to have seen ESB in its original form and that's if one could really remember the specifics of a movie they saw when they were ten years old. I did see the originals and I might remember the difference in the scenes where Lucas later added lots of additional objects, but I doubt I'd recognize much else (aside from the "noooooo", change in force ghost, etc.) I've got a VHS copy of the OT which I believe is the unaltered version, but don't currently have a way to watch it. One day I'll pick up a VHS player out of the building's trash and watch them again.

In fact, if they ever do release the unaltered originals, I will really laugh when the conventional wisdom reverses itself and the consensus is that the unaltered films suck and the special editions + other modifications are "better".

Also, if there are any re-releases, I bet they hold off until 2017 for the 40th anniversary of the original and will be 4K. Just my personal feeling, but I don't think they'll be a new release in anticipation of Episode VII, unless Fox decides to re-release in different packaging just so the media will consider it to be a new release.

Just my opinions...not based on any specific business knowledge.

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Everyone thinks they remember the originals, but I would bet that most don't. You'd have to be at least 47 to have seen the original in the original release (assuming one was at least 10 years old) and remember it and at least 44 to have seen ESB in its original form and that's if one could really remember the specifics of a movie they saw when they were ten years old. I did see the originals and I might remember the difference in the scenes where Lucas later added lots of additional objects, but I doubt I'd recognize much else (aside from the "noooooo", change in force ghost, etc.) I've got a VHS copy of the OT which I believe is the unaltered version, but don't currently have a way to watch it. One day I'll pick up a VHS player out of the building's trash and watch them again.

In fact, if they ever do release the unaltered originals, I will really laugh when the conventional wisdom reverses itself and the consensus is that the unaltered films suck and the special editions + other modifications are "better".

Wow, it's like the limited edition DVDs never happened!

Oh wait, they did.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Yes, I actually think that's possible. Disney is concerned about future exploitation and ownership of the characters and trademarks in movies, books, rides and merchandise, not the relatively small amounts of revenue that re-releases of the OT can generate. Disney wants the $ hundred millions in profits that a film can generate, not the few million $ that a very successful re-release on home video might generate.

I have no insight as to whether Disney will re-release de-specialized versions of the OT or not, but I suspect not. Even aside from the rights issues, it's only the most dedicated fans who care about this - the general public does not. Don't you think that just about everyone (except for the obsessives) who wants Star Wars on home video already have it several times over and would not dip again?

Let's say that Lucas isn't lying about the original negatives being torn apart to make the special editions. That means either the original unaltered trilogy has to be re-created or they have to create it from an existing archive print (perhaps one that Lucas has secretly stashed, which he'd probably never let go for that purpose) or the one at the Library of Congress, of which it's unclear as to which version of the film that is.

If they have to re-create it, it will never perfectly match the original and the obsessive anal fans will still complain. Even if they got every frame to match the original, you know people will complain about the color balance or whatever, claiming it didn't match what they claim they saw in a theatre 35 years ago. And which version do they match it to: even the 70mm and 35mm original releases supposedly have some slight variations between them (although I don't understand how that happened since the 70mm prints were blowups).

And if they use an existing print, it's probably long faded and would have inferior sound (because of the optical soundtrack).

Everyone thinks they remember the originals, but I would bet that most don't. You'd have to be at least 47 to have seen the original in the original release (assuming one was at least 10 years old) and remember it and at least 44 to have seen ESB in its original form and that's if one could really remember the specifics of a movie they saw when they were ten years old. I did see the originals and I might remember the difference in the scenes where Lucas later added lots of additional objects, but I doubt I'd recognize much else (aside from the "noooooo", change in force ghost, etc.) I've got a VHS copy of the OT which I believe is the unaltered version, but don't currently have a way to watch it. One day I'll pick up a VHS player out of the building's trash and watch them again.

In fact, if they ever do release the unaltered originals, I will really laugh when the conventional wisdom reverses itself and the consensus is that the unaltered films suck and the special editions + other modifications are "better".

Also, if there are any re-releases, I bet they hold off until 2017 for the 40th anniversary of the original and will be 4K. Just my personal feeling, but I don't think they'll be a new release in anticipation of Episode VII, unless Fox decides to re-release in different packaging just so the media will consider it to be a new release.

Just my opinions...not based on any specific business knowledge.

Ok have never called a post out for trolling/baiting but I must here. This whole post is pretty much BS from the word go other than your opinion on if they will be released or not. Everyone knows with conclusive proof (there are links here to prove it) that we know what versions of the films are in the National Registry. It has also been proven that the elements exist to put out the films as were seen in the respective years (again more proof and links). So those two points at this juncture I would consider bait and troll.

Now I can respect (even though I don't understand) your "not" wanting them released because a small core group of posters on this board have made it clear they do not want them released. Oh a few say they do but they really don't. If they did they would not go to such extreme diatribes to make the point known that "Lucas does not want them". This is not my opinion but fact as this thread is proof of such. The one thing that has always puzzled me after all these years is that not one person holding to the opinion of not wanting them released has ever really explained why they hold that opinion. Why would anyone feel that way? Please someone that is on that side of the fence explain that to me. I am assume that any lover of film or from a historical perspective would want them released if for nothing else to preserve them. I know, just wishful thinking on my part I suppose.

Also, it's a pretty good guess that Disney will have final say over any release. It's also a FACT that the number of people that want the UOT are not small in numbers as you suggest. Where are you getting your data? Seems to me there are several sites created for that very thing. Oh and just so you know I am old enough (was almost 13) and saw the film 35 times in the theater from May 1977 in Los Angeles to the summer of 78. Where did you see it in 77?

Lastly this is "just my opinion" but if the UOT was released on blu ray it would outsell the current 9 disc set. I am so sure of this I just might bet my car title on it. In fact I know I would.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Let's say that Lucas isn't lying about the original negatives being torn apart to make the special editions. That means either the original unaltered trilogy has to be re-created or they have to create it from an existing archive print (perhaps one that Lucas has secretly stashed, which he'd probably never let go for that purpose) or the one at the Library of Congress, of which it's unclear as to which version of the film that is.

Dude, seriously, recreating the films is not the issue. Much of the original camera negative is still there in the bastardised special edition negs, and even if they didn't store the trims (though I'm sure they did) then they can use the separation masters to fill in the gaps, and they can use an IB Tech print for colour reference (as they did back in '97). Yes, there will be dropped frames but they can be digitally recreated in a 100% seamless fashion.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, seriously, recreating the films is not the issue. Much of the original camera negative is still there in the bastardised special edition negs, and even if they didn't store the trims (though I'm sure they did) then they can use the separation masters to fill in the gaps, and they can use an IB Tech print for colour reference (as they did back in '97). Yes, there will be dropped frames but they can be digitally recreated in a 100% seamless fashion.

If it can be done on a personal computer it can sure as hell be done by a multi-billion dollar studio.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

If it can be done on a personal computer it can sure as hell be done by multi-billion dollar studio.

Of course it can. IIRC a few years ago Lucas actually said (at some event or another) that it can be restored but it'd take millions of dollars to do it.

The technology was willing, but the flannel-shirted spirit was weak. However, if the 2012 date on the now-pulled information on the Lowry/Reliance website was correct, then putting the restoration into turnaround was one of the first things that Disney did when they took over the company. (Or, given how late in the year the LFL sale was announced, Disney may have even tapped up LFL to get the restoration started while negotiations were still ongoing.)

[StingingVelvet]

There's two very simple facts here.

1) I grew up in the 80's on Star Wars VHS tapes and those versions are ingrained in my brain. I want to see those cuts in blu ray quality. I don't think that's wrong of me, especially since every other 80's movie allows me to do so.

2) I dislike CGI usually and thus I dislike the CGI forced into the original trilogy. I would like to see the "no CGI" versions in blu ray quality.

Why anyone would argue against these happening is beyond me. You can say it might not happen, and I accept that, but don't argue against it!

[chip75]

I have nothing against special-editions, heck they can re-do the entire special-effects through-out the films and I'd buy them day one but I want to see the originals restored and released. When I see the originals I'm transported back to 1977, 1980 or 1983. I don't get that magic with the special editions. I'm in Limbo. I'd like that magic. It's that magic that makes films special.

As I see it, they can scan all the original footage they can find (even deleted scenes) in 4K and restore the original for future generations and create new special editions. Everybody will be happy and all this one-upmanship bullshit can be put to rest and we can all go on loving the movies.

[Geoff D]

I grew up in the immediate post-Star Wars era so the originals aren't a source of fondly remembered nostalgia for me, but they are the superior versions of the movies and are also genuine artefacts of pop culture, so they MUST be properly preserved.

That said, I do happen to get a warm fuzzy feeling about the '97 versions. They were what really got me into Star Wars, I received the tapes for my birthday and I basically became a fan overnight. Whenever I happen across that silver VHS slipbox I'm taken back, and I'd love to have these versions on Blu-ray also.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Everyone thinks they remember the originals, but I would bet that most don't.

Saw SW in '77 in the theater. Have seen the original three films hundreds of times since.

Yes, you are correct. I have no recollection of what these movies were like.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That said, I do happen to get a warm fuzzy feeling about the '97 versions. They were what really got me into Star Wars, I received the tapes for my birthday and I basically became a fan overnight. Whenever I happen across that silver VHS slipbox I'm taken back, and I'd love to have these versions on Blu-ray also.

I have similar thoughts but I'm taken back to a time when I picked up the set. I remember waiting for them to come into ASDA and whether or not to get the Gold or Silver box. I got the Gold, it was £5 cheaper! The widescreen versions were on Sky shorty afterwards and I got my mates to tape them in SP. I had to change their screen settings on their Sky receiver as they were 4:3 all the way!

I doubt I'll ever get rid of those tapes and their shoddy cardboard sleeves!

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, seriously, recreating the films is not the issue. Much of the original camera negative is still there in the bastardised special edition negs, and even if they didn't store the trims (though I'm sure they did) then they can use the separation masters to fill in the gaps, and they can use an IB Tech print for colour reference (as they did back in '97). Yes, there will be dropped frames but they can be digitally recreated in a 100% seamless fashion.

this has been posted from time to time, but I think it's time to do it again:

Then, when Lucas himself (and Lucasfilm reps) repeatedly suggested in 2006 that the original, unaltered films could never again be released in high quality because they “no longer existed”, we called BS straight away. No less an authority than Robert A. Harris – our longtime friend, film preservation expert, and former Bits contributor – confirmed for us that not only did the original elements still exist and that the original theatrical versions could certainly be restored (at worst case high quality prints remain preserved in archives around the world), it could be done relatively easily compared to other projects, and for a modest sum. All that would be required is the financial investment and the will to do so. Robert would know, of course – he’s restored the Godfather films and Lawrence of Arabia among many other beloved cinema classics. So the notion that the original films “no longer exist” is simply nonsense.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/column...ts/051914_0010


Anyway, not to release the most famous films in history restored in the latest technology (while every other movie can be released) is really embarassing for the creator and the company that is behind it..
Also, many complain about the pirated reconstructions (which admittedly are exceptional and thank GOD that someone respects these films), but once the unaltered OT would be released, all these would stop! So, there you go, another benefit too!

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Takeshi666

Wow, it's like the limited edition DVDs never happened!

Oh wait, they did.

To be fair, Those were LaserDisk Ports.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

this has been posted from time to time, but I think it's time to do it again:


http://www.thedigitalbits.com/column...ts/051914_0010

You can carry on posting it, it doesn't contradict anything I said. The original negative was dissassembled for cleaning and rebuilt as the Special Edition version, that's a fact, jack. (Go read ILM: Into the Digital Realm for more info.) And, equally factual, the elements also exist to restore Star Wars to its original state - although going from "high quality prints" as the Bits suggest is a dubious proposal at best, because prints are designed to be projected, not transferred. Could it be done that way? Sure. Would it be anything like the quality that a 4K restoration would require? Heck no. But why go that route when you've got pristine separation masters sitting in your vault? That Bits editorial smacks of an easy points scoring piece to me.

As I said before: "The technology was willing, but the flannel-shirted spirit was weak." Now that the flannel shirt is out of the equation, the restoration can be done (and in all probability has been).

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You can carry on posting it, it doesn't contradict anything I said. The original negative was dissassembled for cleaning and rebuilt as the Special Edition version, that's a fact, jack. (Go read ILM: Into the Digital Realm for more info.)

And if one is too lazy to check out a book, they can just click on the link in my signature re: the making of the Special Editions. It's a long article but it's fascinating reading.

You are also correct - Lucas himself said at one of the Blu-ray events it certainly could be done, it just wasn't anything he had any interest in spending the few million dollars it would cost.

[bongozoid]

Originally Posted by thebard

That old argument again? "It's already available on home video, just get the non-anamorphic DVD"?

Let's say I took a nice photo of you & your family back in '77. You asked for a copy of it, so I photocopied it on my b&w copier, since that was all I had.

Now years later, I have a color scanner & decent photo software, so you ask me for a nice color print. So what I do, see, is I scan it at a nice high resolution... but I use Photoshop to turn your skin green, and I paint a moustache on your mom, and I give your dad a clown nose. And I put the Lincoln memorial behind you, even though it was originally your wedding picture... because, well, that was my original vision, I just didn't have the technology back in '77.

But it's ok, 'coz if you want the "original" you can always go back to the b&w photocopy.

/analogy

This has to be favorite post in this entire thread

[thebard]

Originally Posted by bongozoid

This has to be favorite post in this entire thread

It was the clown nose, wasn't it?