Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by Vlad Draculi

I'm sorry, I like to have my audio booming as it immerses me into the movie.

But wouldn't demanding a 5.1 track be like demanding a 3D version of the film?

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It should be 4.1 to be accurate, yes, but this release WILL have a 5.1 track, I guarantee. It's not about "rewarding" anyone, it's about accepting the business reality of the situation.

But why doesn't Criterion, for instance, feel the need to make new 5.1 tracks? Why should a "commercial" movie be any different? Sometimes the idiots don't even include the original tracks. Look at the Kubrick Blu-rays, for instance.

[reason108]

Originally Posted by peckinpah

The movie had its premiere, then went into select theaters. He decided to make the edits between that time and the start of the general run. The projectionists at those select theaters took their prints and physically cut them according to Kubrick's instructions.

Cool. Guess the way that I understood it was slightly different. But, I knew he changed it before the general release. So, either way, someone like myself would not know any different. I was not privy to be a part of any Kubrick special screening. Not to derail anymore, but it would be nice to have some of that deleted footage on future releases. Recently watched Fear and Desire and know why Kubrick wanted it pulled. It was a decent film but I`ve enjoyed Killer`s Kiss and The Killer more.

now...I would like to return the thread back to our regular scheduled program...

[reason108]

Originally Posted by thebard

What about Camie?

She doesn't count because she is the deleted footage girl.



"Dear George, thanks for hiring me. Jerk. Could you imagine my embarrassment having been left out of the movie of one of the greatest known films of all time and now not only was my whole career ruined, but no one believes me that I really was in it. Thanks!" - said everyone that was digitally replaced or left on the cutting room floor from the SW series *>>>


*except those that were left on the cutting room floor of the prequels. they wrote a letter thanking George for having left them on the cutting room floor and how it actually helped their career.



(jk)

[Majoran]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

But why doesn't Criterion, for instance, feel the need to make new 5.1 tracks? Why should a "commercial" movie be any different? Sometimes the idiots don't even include the original tracks. Look at the Kubrick Blu-rays, for instance.

You may want to choose a different company as comparing what Criterion does to what a company such as Disney may do is not apples to apples. Criterion is a "specialty" company where Disney/Fox/LFL are commercial. They both cater to different crowds that have different expectations.

[Nicolawicz]

Yeah, but why would anyone even want some "enhanced" soundtrack? I guess the audio of a film isn't considered important enough to be respected in its original form.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Yeah, but why would anyone even want some "enhanced" soundtrack? I guess the audio of a film isn't considered important enough to be respected in its original form.

People want sexy surround tracks to use with their equipment just like they want the image to fill the screen they bought. Same mentality.

Also a lot less people are audiophiles than videophiles, I would guess.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Elvis

And nobody is to blame other than George then. He brought this all upon himself. That clown let his ego take control and thought he could just do whatever he wanted. If he had just been smart like his peers Spielberg, Scott ect... all this would have been taken care of long ago. His peers realized nobody is too big or above doing whats right and now look where we are. Case Closed.

Well, the case might be closed if the directors you mention had built something from the ground up as Lucas had. Which they didn't. There's no comparison.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Yeah, but why would anyone even want some "enhanced" soundtrack? I guess the audio of a film isn't considered important enough to be respected in its original form.

The simple, cynical answer is a lot of people are simpletons who think more is better. And there's some truth to that. But it's not that simple.

For one thing, people have been conditioned to believe 'HD audio = multichannel'.

For another, not all multi-track remixes are terrible. I think original audio mixes should always be an option but some remixes can be pretty good. I'm not a fan of replacing original sound elements but in those cases where the original elements can be used to open up a score or provide environmental ambience a little judicious tweaking is not necessarily a bad thing.

Taxi Driver is a pretty good example of this, I think.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

Well, the case might be closed if the directors you mention had built something from the ground up as Lucas had. Which they didn't. There's no comparison.

What are you even talking about? ILM? What does that have to do with anything about how they were released? Please...

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Elvis

What are you even talking about? ILM? What does that have to do with anything about how they were released? Please...

It's simple enough. You were comparing Spielberg et al with Lucas. And I corrected you. Star Wars is completely his vision; neither of the directors you mention have created something from the ground up to compare with Star Wars.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

...the bigger problem, with the music itself, is that it makes absolutely no sense that music in a "galaxy far, far away" and "a long time ago," would use the exact same scales and time or use instruments that sound like a cheap version of modern, western music.

As opposed to the clarinet and acoustic and steel drums that are used by the cantina band who all sound like they've been listening to too much Benny Goodman.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

But why doesn't Criterion, for instance, feel the need to make new 5.1 tracks? Why should a "commercial" movie be any different? Sometimes the idiots don't even include the original tracks. Look at the Kubrick Blu-rays, for instance.

Look out - WOOOOOOSH! - there goes the point again. These ain't artsy Criterion joints which are purely the domain of the refined cineaste! They're some of the most well-known pieces of pop culture ever made, so they will need to cater to that sort of wider audience.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by octagon

The simple, cynical answer is a lot of people are simpletons who think more is better. And there's some truth to that. But it's not that simple.

For one thing, people have been conditioned to believe 'HD audio = multichannel'.

For another, not all multi-track remixes are terrible. I think original audio mixes should always be an option but some remixes can be pretty good. I'm not a fan of replacing original sound elements but in those cases where the original elements can be used to open up a score or provide environmental ambience a little judicious tweaking is not necessarily a bad thing.

Taxi Driver is a pretty good example of this, I think.

Spot on. Most people simply want to fill their speakers and the big commercial studios are very much aware of this. I've got no problem whatsoever with the concept of 5.1 remixes, but it's the execution of those mixes where the line becomes blurred; I for one will never, ever watch Terminator again with that dreadful 5.1 remix. But I'll gladly sit down and watch, say, the Kubrick movies with 5.1 because they're eminently respectful of what he originally did.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Spot on. Most people simply want to fill their speakers and the big commercial studios are very much aware of this. I've got no problem whatsoever with the concept of 5.1 remixes, but it's the execution of those mixes where the line becomes blurred; I for one will never, ever watch Terminator again with that dreadful 5.1 remix. But I'll gladly sit down and watch, say, the Kubrick movies with 5.1 because they're eminently respectful of what he originally did.

Just a note (not contradicting you, just clarifying):
there is a big difference between a 5.1 audio that uses altered effects, and a 5.1 audio that just expands an original mono/stereo, without changing any effect (it just changes the positioning and clarity).

So, that said, i don't have any serious problem with 5.1 audios that keep the same sounds and effects as their original counterparts.

[Geoff D]

Yes, that's my point about the execution of the remix. If the inevitable 5.1 mix for the theatrical version of Star Wars is a lightly massaged version of the 70mm, then I won't lose any sleep at night. But if they simply drop in the entire 2011 Blu-ray mix (or use that as the basis), then, as Marvin The Martian would say, it would make me so mad!

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes, that's my point about the execution of the remix. If the inevitable 5.1 mix for the theatrical version of Star Wars is a lightly massaged version of the 70mm, then I won't lose any sleep at night. But if they simply drop in the entire 2011 Blu-ray mix (or use that as the basis), then, as Marvin The Martian would say, it would make me so mad!

What's the deal about the Bluray mix?
Does it have altered effects?
I don't know anything other than Ben's "scream" in Star Wars, and the added/altered dialogue lines of course in the trilogy..
have other sounds changed?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

What's the deal about the Bluray mix?
Does it have altered effects?
I don't know anything other than Ben's "scream" in Star Wars, and the added/altered dialogue lines of course in the trilogy..
have other sounds changed?

I like the mix in and of itself (it's better than those for Empire and Jedi) but it was re-recorded from the ground up using the original stems and of course it was remixed in EX (6.1) too. And it's still missing some things, like a burst of Vader's breathing when his TIE is tumbling into space at the end.

Hopefully they'll dig up the 70mm printmaster and use that as the basis for the 5.1, sending the baby boom to the .1 channel and doing a lil' bit of work on the rears to steer the sound appropriately.

[edit] And it's worth bearing in mind that modern surround processing systems can do a very good job of extracting stereo-ish information from a mono rear, which is what I do when playing back a 2.0 matrixed mix anyway (DPLII FTW!). So if LFL did this themselves to derive stereo rears for the 5.1 mix, I'd have no complaints whatsoever.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Is it even possible to reconstruct the sound for Star Wars as originally heard? I've read about it and it looks like there has been audio tinkering going on for many, many years, usually resulting in a missing sound effect here, an added one there, etc. Has the whole thing gone so far down the stink pipe that even the creators don't know what it originally sounded like? Seriously, the list of audio changes to this over the years is startling, even before Lucas started really screwing around with the movies.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes

Is it even possible to reconstruct the sound for Star Wars as originally heard? I've read about it and it looks like there has been audio tinkering going on for many, many years, usually resulting in a missing sound effect here, an added one there, etc. Has the whole thing gone so far down the stink pipe that even the creators don't know what it originally sounded like? Seriously, the list of audio changes to this over the years is startling, even before Lucas started really screwing around with the movies.

Nothing is lost....nothing. I dont know where these rumors keep poping up like they can't put things bck together again! They can....the people that dont want them released fuel that bogus fire.