Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[madlost1]

Originally Posted by West E

i've only seen Star Wars IV so i was pretty interested in buying the boxset to experience Star Wars ----- Not if original scenes that the diehards enjoy are changed though. I'll DVR them the next time they play. Thanks for saving me some $$$, George!

Don't pass it up because a few scenes were changed especially if you have no attachment to any of them except for IV. The reason people are upset is they grew up the original versions and George keeps tinkering and f***ing with them. I myself grew up watching the originals and was 12 (2001) when I first seen the special editions. While I don't like the fact that so many things are changed and am still clinging onto the original vhs's I will gladly buy this set on BLU.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by amoergosum

@ Shaft Windu
>>>
...do you think you're gonna convince anyone with that quote (in bold)
in your signature? ...

I just think it's interesting that Kevin Smith - who was always very critical and outspoken of Lucas taking such a sane position and doesnt chime in with the over-reaction of most (fans). It's refreshing to hear someone speak his mind and not just to jump on the band-wagon...

I have nothing against someone who watches the 6 movies on Blu-ray and then decides the "NOOOO" change isn't for me. But you just have to say: "George Lucas has made..." And everyone freaks out!

If the "NOOOO" would have always be included and the change on BluRay would have been that Vader is now silent, everybody would love the "NOOOO" and hate the change to make him silent. It's just the fact THAT there is a change in an iconic scene and not about WHAT that change is.

For those who complain that he doesn't make the movies for the old fans but kids and generations to come... Well, he has to at this point because his fans have left him a long time ago.

[StarksRevenge]

Kevin Smith hasn't made a good movie in 15 years...his thoughts on the subject of filmmaking are about as valid as everybody else's.

[danny_boy]

Originally Posted by Breather

Your pics prove you wrong. I can read quite well. You just don't like to tell the truth. The documentary didn't use a finished film clip in the false way you're stating. The film never went from mild green in one shot to blue in another. The documentary used the film clip with the test saber(green) and the finished blue color they decided to go with. You're trying to use test footage using that shot as proof it was green. That's quite dishonest. Just like last month. Luke's saber was never green until 2004.

No.You are being dishonest.
The documentary shows one long continouse clip featuring both a greenish and blu saber.
That is a fact.
Anyone can verify it for themselves.

Adywan proposed that the yellowish tint(inherent in the the source material that comprises the documentary itself) in the shot tilts the colour balance of the saber from blu to green ----and I agree that this could be a plausible explanation.

Seeing as this documentary is going to be on the blu ray boxset then it will be interesting to see how this section of the documentary looks.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

I gotta ask: jar jar binks killing battle droids and blowing up tanks by accident wasn't cartoonish for you?

Maybe it was my age, but I wasn't super critical about effects back then. I just kind of accepted what was on screen. For some reason, the computer effects in TPM have a tangible, real quality to them - while AotC's effects make me feel like I've been sucked into a video game.

Plus, the CG characters in TPM needed to be CG, wheras AotC had CG clonetroopers running around when there could have been "real" actors (at least for non-wideshots). It all just seemed very fake.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by danny_boy

No.You are being dishonest.
The documentary shows one long continouse clip featuring both a greenish and blu saber.
That is a fact.
Anyone can verify it for themselves.

Adywan proposed that the yellowish tint(inherent in the the source material that comprises the documentary itself) in the shot tilts the colour balance of the saber from blu to green ----and I agree that this could be a plausible explanation.

Seeing as this documentary is going to be on the blu ray boxset then it will be interesting to see how this section of the documentary looks.

I'm not being dishonest at all. The saber never appeared green in any shot until 2004. Check every home video release. Give it up already. Trying to have the last word won't make you right.

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by madlost1

Don't pass it up because a few scenes were changed especially if you have no attachment to any of them except for IV. The reason people are upset is they grew up the original versions and George keeps tinkering and f***ing with them. I myself grew up watching the originals and was 12 (2001) when I first seen the special editions. While I don't like the fact that so many things are changed and am still clinging onto the original vhs's I will gladly buy this set on BLU.

I agree, and I was 13 in 1977 when the original "Star Wars" was released. Many of the changes are dumb and unnecessary, but the core stories are the same and should be very enjoyable on Blu-ray.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Well, he has to at this point because his fans have left him a long time ago.

The 2004 DVD set made 100 million in its first 1-2 days of release. His fans have went nowhere. Hyperbole. Disagreeing with him on certain issues/decisions doesn't revoke one's fan status. That's the difference between a fan and a sycophant.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Breather

The 2004 DVD set made 100 million in its first 1-2 days of release. His fans have went nowhere. Hyperbole. Disagreeing with him on certain issues/decisions doesn't revoke one's fan status. That's the difference between a fan and a sycophant.

I didn't mean in sales-numbers but rather in fun and curiosity and the willingness to go along for the ride. It's just no fun anymore to talk to fans about the movies. It's always about what they hate about them and not what they love about them. That's just my impression by this forum and the internet in general, even and especially Star Wars sites like theforce.net...

[Integra8]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I just think it's interesting that Kevin Smith - who was always very critical and outspoken of Lucas taking such a sane position and doesnt chime in with the over-reaction of most (fans). It's refreshing to hear someone speak his mind and not just to jump on the band-wagon...

I have nothing against someone who watches the 6 movies on Blu-ray and then decides the "NOOOO" change isn't for me. But you just have to say: "George Lucas has made..." And everyone freaks out!

If the "NOOOO" would have always be included and the change on BluRay would have been that Vader is now silent, everybody would love the "NOOOO" and hate the change to make him silent. It's just the fact THAT there is a change in an iconic scene and not about WHAT that change is.

For those who complain that he doesn't make the movies for the old fans but kids and generations to come... Well, he has to at this point because his fans have left him a long time ago.

Exactly!! Very well said. As was Madlost1's comment. I was 19 when I saw A New Hope (that's the very first one for those that like to initial all the movies). I have NOOOOOOO problem with the scene with Darth Vadar saying NOOOOOO in Return of the Jedi (that was the third one in the original series by the way..). But some on another forum are saying it's not a 4K transfer but just a transfer from the DVD set released in 2004. If so, why not do it right the first time?

Jeff

[retablo]

Originally Posted by amoergosum

Here's a good YouTube comment with which I completely agree >>>

Honestly this has to be a joke. Darth Vader's silence is why this scene was so powerful because it made it completely unexpected and you had no idea what he was thinking. Now they add some lines that not only sound incredibly derp end of Revenge of the Sith style, but warn the viewer in what he's about to do which ruins the shock factor. Oh well...at least it gave me a good laugh.

It doesn't ruin the shock factor, because anyone watching the scene can see that Vader is changing... what he's "thinking," to use your words - hence the repeated closeups as he watches his son die. There is absolutely no difference in the "shock" of him tossing the Emperor, and you knew what he was thinking as the scene unfolded.

In addition, in 1983, you also didn't have an entire 3 film story arc that detailed Anakin/Vader's character, so I'd say that changes his character more than some silly "No". Lucas wanted you to know what he's thinking, since, in effect, the entire saga is now about him, not Luke.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Integra8

Exactly!! Very well said. As was Madlost1's comment. I was 19 when I saw A New Hope (that's the very first one for those that like to initial all the movies). I have NOOOOOOO problem with the scene with Darth Vadar saying NOOOOOO in Return of the Jedi (that was the third one in the original series by the way..). But some on another forum are saying it's not a 4K transfer but just a transfer from the DVD set released in 2004. If so, why not do it right the first time?

Jeff

A 4K scan would mean completely re-doing all the CG effects. In addition, AOTC and ROTS were shot 1080p digital, so they can never be 4K. The originals, yes, but not the prequels. LOTR was made from 2K scans and they look perfectly fine.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by retablo

It doesn't ruin the shock factor, because anyone watching the scene can see that Vader is changing... what he's "thinking," to use your words - hence the repeated closeups as he watches his son die. There is absolutely no difference in the "shock" of him tossing the Emperor, and you knew what he was thinking as the scene unfolded.

In addition, in 1983, you also didn't have an entire 3 film story arc that detailed Anakin/Vader's character, so I'd say that changes his character more than some silly "No". Lucas wanted you to know what he's thinking, since, in effect, the entire saga is now about him, not Luke.

This is why I'm so glad I at least have my laserdiscs and non-anamorphic dvds. To me, it's still and always will be a character arc that develops over these three films: Star Wars (1977), The Empire Strikes Back (1980), & Return of the Jedi (1983). I don't care how much retconing Lucas thinks he can pull - the prequels were a backstory "trilogy". I view them in a completely different context from the original trilogy. So, for me, there is no six film arc.

This is a large part of why I never really minded the Special Editions (1997) that much. It seemed wrong that the originals were being overwritten (which I am very much against), but at least they still retained the essence of what those films were originally. I didn't start to get angry until the 2004 changes (to line up more with the prequels) started.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I didn't mean in sales-numbers but rather in fun and curiosity and the willingness to go along for the ride. It's just no fun anymore to talk to fans about the movies. It's always about what they hate about them and not what they love about them. That's just my impression by this forum and the internet in general, even and especially Star Wars sites like theforce.net...

Massive sales numbers prove that people are seeking fun, curiosity, and the willingness to go along for the ride. People aren't buying that many in 1-2 days to watch them sit and collect dust.

Of course, knowledgeable fans are going to discuss and critique the films in detail. You have that with any popular film/film franchise. It just seems that some don't like a diversity of opinion. Odd when you consider that it's happening on discussion boards.

I think it's still fun to talk to fans about the movies in detail. I avoid two types of fans. The "you must like everything about the films and you must not question George Lucas" types and the "I can't wait until that (insert word here) dies so I can have the UOT" types. Two strange groups of people. This thread has people that like the "noooo" change and others who don't like it. Diversity of opinion is what makes the discussion fun. That's just one example. You get discussion of all the changes. I'd hate to be around mindless drones that all had the same opinion. Any film/film franchise is going to have things we like/don't like. There's nothing wrong with discussing that.

I can't comment on TFN. I don't post there.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

This is why I'm so glad I at least have my laserdiscs and non-anamorphic dvds. To me, it's still and always will be a character arc that develops over these three films: Star Wars (1977), The Empire Strikes Back (1980), & Return of the Jedi (1983). I don't care how much retconing Lucas thinks he can pull - the prequels were a backstory "trilogy". I view them in a completely different context from the original trilogy. So, for me, there is no six film arc.

Is the PQ on the Laserdiscs equivalent to the non-anamorphic DVDs?

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Is the PQ on the Laserdiscs equivalent to the non-anamorphic DVDs?

I'd be able to comment on that better if I had a really quality laserdisc player. Sadly, I don't. I find the dvds look better. But there's no beating the collectability factor of the laserdiscs. The artwork and design of the packaging is all representative of an era before the tampering/prequels began.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Is the PQ on the Laserdiscs equivalent to the non-anamorphic DVDs?

Someone can correct me, but yes I think that the PQ is the same, but the AQ is better on the LaserDiscs. I think that is what I have read. I don't own, nor have I ever owned a LaserDisc.

[phansson]

It's not for you! He's making it for your kids, my kids everyone who hasn't seen Return Of The Jedi before and isn't gonna know that this yell wasn't there the first time. And if nobody told me I doubt I'd ever had known. I remember seeing the scene and they cut to Vader and he just stares as the Emperor is doing this to his kid, and they do that two times and then finally he gets up… And it always felt like there was an emotive that was just missing. Throw it in! Im all for it! Kevin Smith

Shaftwindu,

If Kevin Smith honestly wouldn't have noticed there wasn't a "nooooooooooo" originally, I don't consider him to be an honest fan.......

Sorry, you HAVE TO agree with me on that one!

[vargo]

Originally Posted by retablo

LOTR was made from 2K scans and they look perfectly fine.

LOTR was scanned at 2K while the negatives were still new. No cleanup was needed.

Star Wars was scanned at 2K (or 1.9) from aged and worn-out sources.

There was significant automated cleanup done - DNR, scratch removal etc. In addition of course to whatever manual processing was done.

What you need to understand is that automated cleanup at 2K does not give you results good enough for a 1080p product.

You always need to scan at a higher resolution so that the cleanup algorithms can make more precise decisions about what to remove and how to remove it.

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by retablo

It doesn't ruin the shock factor, because anyone watching the scene can see that Vader is changing... what he's "thinking," to use your words - hence the repeated closeups as he watches his son die. There is absolutely no difference in the "shock" of him tossing the Emperor, and you knew what he was thinking as the scene unfolded.

In addition, in 1983, you also didn't have an entire 3 film story arc that detailed Anakin/Vader's character, so I'd say that changes his character more than some silly "No". Lucas wanted you to know what he's thinking, since, in effect, the entire saga is now about him, not Luke.

There was no "shock value" to the scene, but it WAS emotionally powerful. It didn't need him to say "No." The first one at least. I can understand the second one, as he's picking Palpatine up, but it should be more labored and natural.

With the change, the scene IS laughable, which clashes with the otherwise serious and dramatic nature of the scene. He doesn't need to say anything. You can SEE the conflict. The only ones who might not see it, are the ones who probably aren't attention anyway.

Many times, looks and body language speaks louder than words. It's Twin Peals. The small minority who needed the moment (or any moment in Star Wars) spelled out for them, shouldn't be catered to.

A bit melodramatic? Perhaps. But when I was 4, I understood what was going on. Star Wars isn't complex. Hell, the prequels practically spell everything out for you, including it's "deep" meanings.

There's an unwritten rule of logic to storytelling. The more you spell things out and cater to these imaginary idiots the studio or filmmakers fear are in the audience (and occasionally there are), the more DUMB you story seems.