Dual Subs

[erict]

When running dual subs do they have to be the same size driver? I have an A2-300 but originally bought an Energy ESW-10 which I still have new in the box. I was toying with the idea of running this sub along with my eD. Thoughts?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by erict

When running dual subs do they have to be the same size driver? I have an A2-300 but originally bought an Energy ESW-10 which I still have new in the box. I was toying with the idea of running this sub along with my eD. Thoughts?

This question has been asked and answered in multiple threads. With two subwoofers, it is best and easiest to have identical subwoofers from the same manufacturer. However, with a little patience and experimentation, you can make two different subwoofers work with each other. The bass response in a room can be very uneven. Depending on the position of the sub or your listening position, you may experinece cold and hot spots. This due to interation of low frequency sound waves with the room boundaries and creation of standing waves. An easy solution is to use two subwoofers. In almost all cases, two subwooferes are preferred to one. Placement of the two subs is very important. Research has shown that the best positions for tow subs are:

1. Middle of the side walls.
2. One in the middle of the front wall and one in the middle of the rear wall.
3. The two right and left front corners.
4. When you have different subwoofers and one is stronger than the other one. Put the bigger (better) sub up front in a corner and put the smaller subwoofer on the side or behind your sofa (a few feet away). With this arrangement, the bigger sub up front will give you deeper and lower frequency bass sound and the smaller sub will give you the upper frequency and louder bass sound.

It is very important that you adjust the level of each sub independently.

1. On the back of the subs, turn their levels to 50%-60%, no higher than 75%.
2. On the back of the subs, turn their crossovers all the way up to their maximum point. You set the crossover in the receiver.
3. In the receiver's menu, set all speakers to SMALL.
4. In the receiver's menu, set the crossovers of all the speakers to 80Hz. You can deviate from 80Hz depending on the low frequency extension of your speakers. Make sure the crossover is always set at least 10Hz-15Hz higher than the minimum frequency response (+-3dB) of your speakers.
5. In the receiver's menu, set the crossover frequency of the LFE channel to 120Hz.
6. In the receiver's menu, set the level of the subwoofers to zero.
7. Turn off one subwoofer.
8. Play the test tones through the subwoofer that is on and measure its response with an SPL meter or your ears. Adjust its level on its back (not the receiver) so that you get approximately 75dB.
9. Turn on the other subwoofer and turn off the previous subwoofer.
10. Run test tones through it and adjust the level on its back so that you get approximately 75dB.
11. Now, turn on both subwoofers and do not touch the levels on their back.
12. Run the calibration program again or use an SPL meter.
13. If you are using an SPL meter, when the time comes to adjust the subwoofers, move the SPL meter slighly to the right and slightly to the left and average the dB level that it registers.

Hopefully this will work. If you move the subwoofers or move your listening position, don't be surprised if the level of the subwoofers change drastically.

Read A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II). Post #2 in that thread discusses positioning and the importance of using identical subs.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

This question has been asked and answered in multiple threads. With two subwoofers, it is best and easiest to have identical subwoofers from the same manufacturer. However, with a little patience and experimentation, you can make two different subwoofers work with each other. The bass response in a room can be very uneven. Depending on the position of the sub or your listening position, you may experinece cold and hot spots. This due to interation of low frequency sound waves with the room boundaries and creation of standing waves. An easy solution is to use two subwoofers. In almost all cases, two subwooferes are preferred to one. Placement of the two subs is very important. Research has shown that the best positions for tow subs are:

1. Middle of the side walls.
2. One in the middle of the front wall and one in the middle of the rear wall.
3. The two right and left front corners.
4. When you have different subwoofers and one is stronger than the other one. Put the bigger (better) sub up front in a corner and put the smaller subwoofer on the side or behind your sofa (a few feet away). With this arrangement, the bigger sub up front will give you deeper and lower frequency bass sound and the smaller sub will give you the upper frequency and louder bass sound.

It is very important that you adjust the level of each sub independently.

1. On the back of the subs, turn their levels to 50%-60%, no higher than 75%.
2. On the back of the subs, turn their crossovers all the way up to their maximum point. You set the crossover in the receiver.
3. In the receiver's menu, set all speakers to SMALL.
4. In the receiver's menu, set the crossovers of all the speakers to 80Hz. You can deviate from 80Hz depending on the low frequency extension of your speakers. Make sure the crossover is always set at least 10Hz-15Hz higher than the minimum frequency response (+-3dB) of your speakers.
5. In the receiver's menu, set the crossover frequency of the LFE channel to 120Hz.
6. In the receiver's menu, set the level of the subwoofers to zero.
7. Turn off one subwoofer.
8. Play the test tones through the subwoofer that is on and measure its response with an SPL meter or your ears. Adjust its level on its back (not the receiver) so that you get approximately 75dB.
9. Turn on the other subwoofer and turn off the previous subwoofer.
10. Run test tones through it and adjust the level on its back so that you get approximately 75dB.
11. Now, turn on both subwoofers and do not touch the levels on their back.
12. Run the calibration program again or use an SPL meter.
13. If you are using an SPL meter, when the time comes to adjust the subwoofers, move the SPL meter slighly to the right and slightly to the left and average the dB level that it registers.

Hopefully this will work. If you move the subwoofers or move your listening position, don't be surprised if the level of the subwoofers change drastically.

Read A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II). Post #2 in that thread discusses positioning and the importance of using identical subs.

I have 2 subs from 2 different manufacturers with different size drivers with different port firing, and they could be considerd "high" and "low" end as well, and I still feel I got them to play together well based on Big Daddy's above comments, so heed his opinions and advice! And yes, I use an SPL meter as he recommends, it is a must have for any "tweaker" or semi-serious audiophile as I consdier myself!

[Erik E. Erik]

Here's my question: I have two BP 2004 with a 150 watt 10 inch sub in each. I am looking for an additional subwoofer to get some lower sound (I don't think the low-end performance of those subs is very good) and want to spend no more than $700. Since I have two subs right now, should I get one bigger one or two smaller ones? Which is better: 3 subs or 4 subs?

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Erik E. Erik

Here's my question: I have two BP 2004 with a 150 watt 10 inch sub in each. I am looking for an additional subwoofer to get some lower sound (I don't think the low-end performance of those subs is very good) and want to spend no more than $700. Since I have two subs right now, should I get one bigger one or two smaller ones? Which is better: 3 subs or 4 subs?

For lower bass response, driver size does play into how low a sub can go, and so the bigger your driver, the lower your sub should be able to get down to. Cabinet design and shape can also help to provide lower bass as well. Two subs are usually considered better than one as you get better balance and flatter bass response and can eliminate bass voids you have within the room. You want to keep the # of subs as even, and no more than 4 subs is considered the best way to get the best bass response. For $700, I suggest looking at SVS, Hsu or Outlaw for their subs.

With 2 subs, make sure to follow Big Daddy's post from above.

[Erik E. Erik]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

For lower bass response, driver size does play into how low a sub can go, and so the bigger your driver, the lower your sub should be able to get down to. Cabinet design and shape can also help to provide lower bass as well. Two subs are usually considered better than one as you get better balance and flatter bass response and can eliminate bass voids you have within the room. You want to keep the # of subs as even, and no more than 4 subs is considered the best way to get the best bass response. For $700, I suggest looking at SVS, Hsu or Outlaw for their subs.

With 2 subs, make sure to follow Big Daddy's post from above.

So by "even", do you mean that 2 or 4 subwoofers is preferable to 3? Should I use the 700 dollars to buy two smaller subs? (eD a2 300 for example)

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erik E. Erik

So by "even", do you mean that 2 or 4 subwoofers is preferable to 3? Should I use the 700 dollars to buy two smaller subs? (eD a2 300 for example)

Yes, an even number of subs is better than an odd number. Two subs will perform better than one sub.

[Erik E. Erik]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Yes, an even number of subs is better than an odd number. Two subs will perform better than one sub.

Thanks so much for your help on this and all your great sub posts, BigDaddy. If I am going to look for 2 smaller subs (and end up with 4) instead of 1 bigger sub (and end up with 3), should I try to match the two subs that I already own on the Def Tech Towers with two smaller Def Tech subs similar in size and power? Or go for those eDs A2-300 (which look pretty stellar)?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erik E. Erik

Thanks so much for your help on this and all your great sub posts, BigDaddy. If I am going to look for 2 smaller subs (and end up with 4) instead of 1 bigger sub (and end up with 3), should I try to match the two subs that I already own on the Def Tech Towers with two smaller Def Tech subs similar in size and power? Or go for those eDs A2-300 (which look pretty stellar)?

These are some of your options:

• Buy the two best subwoofers that you can afford such as Ed A2-300 and let them play together.
• Buy two long RG6 sub cables.
• Connect the two ED subs to the LFE output (sub output) on the back of the receiver with a Y adapter (1 male, 2 female)
• Disconnect the built-in Def Tech subs from the LFE output on the back of the receiver.
• Connect the Def Tech subwoofers to the front speakers' output on the back of the receiver. If your receiver has preouts, connect them to the front speakers preouts with sub cables.
• By doing this, you are running your Def Tech speakers as full-range speakers. Make sure you set them to LARGE or you can set them SMALL with a crossover of 40Hz or 60Hz.
• With this kind of setup, you are taking the two built-in Def Tech subs out of the equation and your system's subwoofers will be reduced to the two ED subwoofers.
• Place the two ED subs in the middle of the side walls.
• Adjust the level of all the speakers and subwoofers carefully and live in bass heaven.

My two front speakers are Def Tech speakers with 15" built-in subwoofers and 300 watt amplifiers. I also have 4 additional subwoofers (three 12" and one 15"). I have my speakers connected as I described above and it sounds great.

If you haven't read A Guide to Bass Management, read it carefully. There is a section at the end of Post #1 on how to setup two subwoofers.

[Erik E. Erik]

My updated Home Theater will be named in your honor, BD. I've always been using RCA cables as subwoofer cables, but using RG6 makes sense -- I imagine it's because of the shielding? Should I use them to carry all low signals to all my speakers, like the low-end pass on my 2500 speaker or on the 2004 towers?

[350gt]

Thanks for the info Big Daddy(that didnt sound right).

BUt I mentioned on another thread about running another sub too. I have the DEF. tech. supercube 1 in my theater room and a JBL venue 12 in my front room, which doesnt get much use. I am going to try and hook it up and see what happens.

You think I will be wasting my time?

[jomari]

Originally Posted by 350gt

Thanks for the info Big Daddy(that didnt sound right).

BUt I mentioned on another thread about running another sub too. I have the DEF. tech. supercube 1 in my theater room and a JBL venue 12 in my front room, which doesnt get much use. I am going to try and hook it up and see what happens.

You think I will be wasting my time?

ive seen a good number of colleagues here, who have two subwoofers, either
- different baffle size
- different brand names
- different everything...

its not a matter of wasting time, but a matter of
- subwoofer placement and
- proper calibration

both can be found in our stickies.

[erict]

Originally Posted by 350gt

Thanks for the info Big Daddy(that didnt sound right).

BUt I mentioned on another thread about running another sub too. I have the DEF. tech. supercube 1 in my theater room and a JBL venue 12 in my front room, which doesnt get much use. I am going to try and hook it up and see what happens.

You think I will be wasting my time?

I just hooked up my Energy ESW-10 with my existing A2-300 today and even though I have not fine tuned them yet together I can hear and feel the difference already I say go for it.

[350gt]

thanks guys, heading out to find a Y-splitter and some cables.

[erict]

Originally Posted by 350gt

thanks guys, heading out to find a Y-splitter and some cables.

Report back

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erik E. Erik

My updated Home Theater will be named in your honor, BD. I've always been using RCA cables as subwoofer cables, but using RG6 makes sense -- I imagine it's because of the shielding? Should I use them to carry all low signals to all my speakers, like the low-end pass on my 2500 speaker or on the 2004 towers?

Yes, you can use RG6 cables for those speakers. I use the same cables for connecting the build-in subwoofers of my Def Tech super towers.

[350gt]

Originally Posted by erict

Report back

reporting in

So far so good.

I bought a new Y splitter, one sub rca and a multimeter. I tried using the meter and couldnt figure it out and gave up. So I ran the auto mcca on my elite 01 with my def. tech sub on and the jbl off, I then tuned the JBL by ear. I didnt get to really test it out but a midnight gaming session sounded very good. I am going to continue Band of brothers tonight, I'm on part 5, so I could get a better judgement.

Let you know how it turns out.

One question though, i read on def. techs. website that when you use the LFE input on the sub it bypasses the crossover. So it doesnt matter what I have it set at then? and for the JBL, just leave the crossover all the way up?

[jomari]

Originally Posted by 350gt

reporting in
One question though, i read on def. techs. website that when you use the LFE input on the sub it bypasses the crossover. So it doesnt matter what I have it set at then? and for the JBL, just leave the crossover all the way up?

first off, get a spl meter if you can afford one. its a great investment, and ive never heard anyone say its not worth 50 bucks.

in regards to the LFE input, it wouldnt matter anyways IF you turn your subwoofers crossover setting to its maximum point, meaning if it has a parameter of 30-130hz, you want to set it at 130hz.

your crossover settings on the receiver should dictate what the subwoofer is receiving. this is more important.

a big mistake a number of people tend to do is to have a 'hole' in there LFE frequencies by having crossover points set on both the receiver and the subwoofer.

for example
Receiver: 80hz
Subwoofer: 60hz

you are basically missing the 61-79hz worth of information being filtered out to a void. this is why we want the sub to be set at 130hz or its highest crossover point, and have the receiver do the filtering for you.

does this make sense?

EDIT:

heres a link for our sticky on this topic, created by someone called 'big daddy'

crossover settings and subwoofers

great starter course for reading.

[erict]

Originally Posted by jomari

first off, get a spl meter if you can afford one. its a great investment, and ive never heard anyone say its not worth 50 bucks.

in regards to the LFE input, it wouldnt matter anyways IF you turn your subwoofers crossover setting to its maximum point, meaning if it has a parameter of 30-130hz, you want to set it at 130hz.

your crossover settings on the receiver should dictate what the subwoofer is receiving. this is more important.

a big mistake a number of people tend to do is to have a 'hole' in there LFE frequencies by having crossover points set on both the receiver and the subwoofer.

for example
Receiver: 60hz
Subwoofer: 80hz

you are basically missing the 61-79hz worth of information being filtered out to a void. this is why we want the sub to be set at 130hz or its highest crossover point, and have the receiver do the filtering for you.

does this make sense?

EDIT:

heres a link for our sticky on this topic, created by someone called 'big daddy'

crossover settings and subwoofers

great starter course for reading.

Jomari, not sure but isn't your example supposed to be the other way around

[jomari]

Originally Posted by erict

Jomari, not sure but isn't your example supposed to be the other way around

thanks for the heads up. this is what happens when your at work and doing this at the same time!

erict, can you remove the quoted part to avoid any confusion? thanks!