Would you like grain with that? - Blu-ray Forum

Lee Christie · 02-03-2008, 04:04 PM

I think it has been well communicated in.. well... many threads that film grain is intentional, and directors and film buffs seem to love it. But I just wondered what the general opinion was here and decided to try using a poll.

Do YOU (talking about you personally, not directors, or anyone else) want to see grain on your movies? I'm making the assumption that grainless recording can be down without blurring the image (so in other words we're talking about intentional grain here)

Blaumann · 02-03-2008, 04:19 PM

Voted yes. I don´t want all movies to look the same.

What´s next?
All movies in 16:9 ar (fullscreen baby, i paid for my pixels and not for black bars...)?
All movies colored in the same way?
All movies "must" have 3D effects?

no thank you, film should look like film and not like a video game.

sj001 · 02-03-2008, 04:36 PM

I don't generally like grain, but sometimes it comes with the territory, and sometimes it is the intent of the director. Some movies that COMPLETELY lack grain look overly processed and artificial.

dadkins · 02-03-2008, 04:43 PM

I have my preferrences.
When someone asks what *I* think about grain, I should be allowed to state what *I* think about it and not get chastised for stating it.

There are those that don't mind, like, prefer(?) grainy movies.
*I* prefer using the HD screen I have to watch pristine imagery.
The whole point of *High Definition* is for the clearest picture one can get.
High Definition:
being or relating to an often digital television system that has twice as many scan lines per frame as a conventional system, a proportionally sharper image, and a wide-screen format.

For the grain-ified movies, *I* think a standard DVD would suffice.

It irks me to get a Blu-ray Disc home and see that I essentially wasted my money on it.

Stealth?
300?

I *AM NOT* suggesting that all movies be reproduced, I am saying that some of the movies out there suck in HD!
"Artistic Value" Fine!
Display these grainy to the point of distraction movies untill you pass out! I'm ok with your right to accept this!

Now, it is *MY* right to NOT accept this!
I voted Grain Free!

Question:
What BD do you all use to show off your HDTV and Blu-ray?

davidPS3 · 02-03-2008, 04:45 PM

It all depends on the movie. The only one that I have seen with the grainy look that looks good is 300 and that was meant to be.

Lee Christie · 02-03-2008, 04:50 PM

If I'm looking at scenery or an actor's face on a disc... I wan't it to recreate the scenery or the actor's face as acurately as posable, not recreate the result of pointing a camera at the scenery or actor's face as acturatly as posable.

I'm trying to enjoy the content (what the camera is pointed at) not the medium (the film inside the camera).

I want the disc to make me feel I'm right there in the action - not right there in the cinema.

That's why I'm anti-grain. Although I guess it'd be good for some genres, but adding it to 99% of films on purpose just seems silly, and I think it was stupid to add it to Final fantasy when that was all CGI anyway!

Obviously if the film had grain in the cinema then it's going to have grain on the disc (or else be over-processed to remove it, which is probably worse). So I don't think they should have grain to begin with unless there's a good reason for it, and certainly not in purely CGI films.

That being said, I'm never going to win this argument, since everyone thinks intentionally putting little dots on the screen in the best thing since sliced bread even though you wouldn't accept it in still photography, or video games or anything.

owa · 02-03-2008, 04:52 PM

Lee Christie · 02-03-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owa

Thank you for taking the time to make this post although I did say in my OP that I was aware of the many threads, I'm not aware of poll yet, I thought we were missing one.

owa · 02-03-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Christie

Thank you for taking the time to make this post although I did say in my OP that I was aware of the many threads, I'm not aware of poll yet, I thought we were missing one.

You're right, I didn't see a poll on it when searching. I was pretty surprised by that.

Also, don't take it personally. I just happened to post the links in this thread since it was the latest of the 3 grain threads that have been active recently. The poll was definitely a new twist and I do like polls.

Lee Christie · 02-03-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owa

You're right, I didn't see a poll on it when searching. I was pretty surprised by that.

Also, don't take it personally. I just happened to post the links in this thread since it was the latest of the 3 grain threads that have been active recently. The poll was definitely a new twist and I do like polls.

Thanks, polls are fun. I'm suprised I still haven't seen a "What's better: Blu-ray or HD-DVD" poll on this site yet. :P

guitarist155 · 02-03-2008, 05:18 PM

i can really go ether way with this, on my tv i really like to see the best picture possible not a lot of grain, however i hate going to see a movie come to find out they have gone digital and i am watching an over sized blu-ray i think film needs to stay in theaters, also i shoot photography with a 35mm slr and soon medium format cameras, all film, and in my op nothing will ever beat a grainy black and white for getting a message across. there are times when grain is just necessary and the movie would not be the same without it.

owa · 02-03-2008, 05:40 PM

I forgot to answer the poll question in my other post. I'm fine with grain but it is hard to explain to others so if I'm showing someone my system, I definitely pick a movie that has as little grain as possible. I also think that people that are new to blu-ray should probably start off with movies that don't have a lot of grain.

As for my personal preference, while I'm okay with grain, if I'm watching a movie that doesn't have any noticeable grain, it's not like I'm sitting there thinking, I wish this movie had a little grain in it. Although, as someone else already mentioned, sometimes the movies that don't have any grain look overly processed and artificial. So, I don't know, maybe the bottom-line for me is that I don't feel very strongly about it either way.

Gremal · 02-03-2008, 05:46 PM

Wrong questions. Exposing yourself to grain if you like film is like exposing yourself to water if you like swimming. It's part of the medium. Some films have more grain, some have less grain than others, some have larger vs smaller grain. Some digital productions have been DNR'ed to death so the grain and other details aren't as visible. But if you go swimming, expect to get wet. It's part of the experience.

Lee Christie · 02-03-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gremal

Wrong questions. Exposing yourself to grain if you like film is like exposing yourself to water if you like swimming. It's part of the medium. Some films have more grain, some have less grain than others, some have larger vs smaller grain. Some digital productions have been DNR'ed to death so the grain and other details aren't as visible. But if you go swimming, expect to get wet. It's part of the experience.

Don't you think Final Fantasy would have been better without the grain?

guitarist155 · 02-03-2008, 05:57 PM

That being said, I'm never going to win this argument, since everyone thinks intentionally putting little dots on the screen in the best thing since sliced bread even though you wouldn't accept it in still photography, or video games or anything.[/QUOTE]

in digital still photography people do add grain there is a program in photo shop for adding grain, please note that grain and noise are two different things. in digital photos people don't want noise however grain is part of the art. the reason digital still photography doesn't use grain is because the computer program can't do a very good job of adding it and when you try to do it in camera the way you would with film you just get noise. movies and photography
are an art whatever conveys the message is what we will use, the only reason grain is looked down upon in digital photography is because they can't create it like they can with film
i have some photos i shot in black and white on film with grain and they wouldn't have near the impact they do without the grain

darkpoet25 · 02-03-2008, 06:00 PM

For me personally I think it adds to the overall movie watching experience. Grain is one thing, as it appears on most film being used. What I can't stand however, is video noise, moire pattern, and film dirt. Another thing is that with high definition video, on older films it will bring out slight imperfrction a little more due to the digital processing involved to "clean" the film. Some directors still use it to this day as well due to the look it gives them, think Spielberg and Close Encounters, which I think looks and sounds phenomenal. But this is just me, and to each their own.

turboedguy · 02-03-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owa

nice.

But unfortunately, I bet you forgot a few.

krazeyeyez · 02-03-2008, 07:01 PM

all i know is i don't like it, of my friends who saw blu when i first got it (300) none were impressed, of my friends who i showed lost season 4 or disney cars too ..... all are in the market saving and researching blu players now, interesting tidbit to keep in mind when your trying to push blu and grain.

Lee Christie · 02-03-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

all i know is i don't like it, of my friends who saw blu when i first got it (300) none were impressed, of my friends who i showed lost season 4 or disney cars too ..... all are in the market saving and researching blu players now, interesting tidbit to keep in mind when your trying to push blu and grain.

I can't wait till Cars is released in the UK. I haven't actually seen it (though I'm told its a great film), I just want it to see what Blu-ray can really do in terms of clarity.

Knight-Errant · 02-03-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

all i know is i don't like it, of my friends who saw blu when i first got it (300) none were impressed, of my friends who i showed lost season 4 or disney cars too ..... all are in the market saving and researching blu players now, interesting tidbit to keep in mind when your trying to push blu and grain.

I don't think it's pushing grain, just saying that's what film looks like

I wouldn't want to add grain to movies that don't have it like CG movies. Nor would I walk around with sand covered glasses to make the world look all grainy lol

View Poll Results: Do you want grain on movies?
Yes! It adds to the cinematic experience!	65	61.32%
As long as it doesn't mean bluring, I'll take pristine, grain-free recording please.	41	38.68%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

02-03-2008, 04:04 PM	#1
Lee Christie Active Member Member since:Aug 2007	Would you like grain with that? I think it has been well communicated in.. well... many threads that film grain is intentional, and directors and film buffs seem to love it. But I just wondered what the general opinion was here and decided to try using a poll. Do YOU (talking about you personally, not directors, or anyone else) want to see grain on your movies? I'm making the assumption that grainless recording can be down without blurring the image (so in other words we're talking about intentional grain here)

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02-03-2008, 04:19 PM	#2
Blaumann Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:verge of breakdown	Voted yes. I don´t want all movies to look the same. What´s next? All movies in 16:9 ar (fullscreen baby, i paid for my pixels and not for black bars...)? All movies colored in the same way? All movies "must" have 3D effects? no thank you, film should look like film and not like a video game.

02-03-2008, 04:36 PM	#3
sj001 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Rochester, NY Blu-ray collection:317 DVD collection:17 Trading Score:5	I don't generally like grain, but sometimes it comes with the territory, and sometimes it is the intent of the director. Some movies that COMPLETELY lack grain look overly processed and artificial.

02-03-2008, 04:43 PM	#4
dadkins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Hercules, CA Blu-ray collection:35 Blu-ray reviews:2	I have my preferrences. When someone asks what I think about grain, I should be allowed to state what I think about it and not get chastised for stating it. There are those that don't mind, like, prefer(?) grainy movies. I prefer using the HD screen I have to watch pristine imagery. The whole point of High Definition is for the clearest picture one can get. High Definition: being or relating to an often digital television system that has twice as many scan lines per frame as a conventional system, a proportionally sharper image, and a wide-screen format. For the grain-ified movies, I think a standard DVD would suffice. It irks me to get a Blu-ray Disc home and see that I essentially wasted my money on it. Stealth? 300? I AM NOT suggesting that all movies be reproduced, I am saying that some of the movies out there suck in HD! "Artistic Value" Fine! Display these grainy to the point of distraction movies untill you pass out! I'm ok with your right to accept this! Now, it is MY right to NOT accept this! I voted Grain Free! Question: What BD do you all use to show off your HDTV and Blu-ray?

02-03-2008, 04:45 PM	#5
davidPS3 Special Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Seattle	It all depends on the movie. The only one that I have seen with the grainy look that looks good is 300 and that was meant to be.

02-03-2008, 04:50 PM	#6
Lee Christie Active Member Member since:Aug 2007	If I'm looking at scenery or an actor's face on a disc... I wan't it to recreate the scenery or the actor's face as acurately as posable, not recreate the result of pointing a camera at the scenery or actor's face as acturatly as posable. I'm trying to enjoy the content (what the camera is pointed at) not the medium (the film inside the camera). I want the disc to make me feel I'm right there in the action - not right there in the cinema. That's why I'm anti-grain. Although I guess it'd be good for some genres, but adding it to 99% of films on purpose just seems silly, and I think it was stupid to add it to Final fantasy when that was all CGI anyway! Obviously if the film had grain in the cinema then it's going to have grain on the disc (or else be over-processed to remove it, which is probably worse). So I don't think they should have grain to begin with unless there's a good reason for it, and certainly not in purely CGI films. That being said, I'm never going to win this argument, since everyone thinks intentionally putting little dots on the screen in the best thing since sliced bread even though you wouldn't accept it in still photography, or video games or anything.

02-03-2008, 04:52 PM	#7
owa Blu-ray Knight Member since:Apr 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 96	Woo hoo, another thread on grain! My day is now complete. For more threads on grain, check the following links: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=35203 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=35075 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=34862 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=28111 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=33137 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=31748 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=33566 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=32269 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=31922 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=31806 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=31703 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=30061 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=31296 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=30562 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=30510 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=29221 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=28699 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=25797 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=27839 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=26930 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=22133 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=23856 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=22554 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=22554 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=19105 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=19314 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=17813 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=15984 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=35216

02-03-2008, 05:18 PM	#11
guitarist155 Special Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:nashville Home Theater Gallery:45 4K collection:11 Blu-ray collection:134 DVD collection:3 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:1	i can really go ether way with this, on my tv i really like to see the best picture possible not a lot of grain, however i hate going to see a movie come to find out they have gone digital and i am watching an over sized blu-ray i think film needs to stay in theaters, also i shoot photography with a 35mm slr and soon medium format cameras, all film, and in my op nothing will ever beat a grainy black and white for getting a message across. there are times when grain is just necessary and the movie would not be the same without it.

02-03-2008, 05:40 PM	#12
owa Blu-ray Knight Member since:Apr 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 96	I forgot to answer the poll question in my other post. I'm fine with grain but it is hard to explain to others so if I'm showing someone my system, I definitely pick a movie that has as little grain as possible. I also think that people that are new to blu-ray should probably start off with movies that don't have a lot of grain. As for my personal preference, while I'm okay with grain, if I'm watching a movie that doesn't have any noticeable grain, it's not like I'm sitting there thinking, I wish this movie had a little grain in it. Although, as someone else already mentioned, sometimes the movies that don't have any grain look overly processed and artificial. So, I don't know, maybe the bottom-line for me is that I don't feel very strongly about it either way.

02-03-2008, 05:46 PM	#13
Gremal Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Feb 2007 Location:Daddyland Home Theater Gallery:49 Blu-ray collection:184	Wrong questions. Exposing yourself to grain if you like film is like exposing yourself to water if you like swimming. It's part of the medium. Some films have more grain, some have less grain than others, some have larger vs smaller grain. Some digital productions have been DNR'ed to death so the grain and other details aren't as visible. But if you go swimming, expect to get wet. It's part of the experience.

02-03-2008, 05:57 PM	#15
guitarist155 Special Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:nashville Home Theater Gallery:45 4K collection:11 Blu-ray collection:134 DVD collection:3 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:1	That being said, I'm never going to win this argument, since everyone thinks intentionally putting little dots on the screen in the best thing since sliced bread even though you wouldn't accept it in still photography, or video games or anything.[/QUOTE] in digital still photography people do add grain there is a program in photo shop for adding grain, please note that grain and noise are two different things. in digital photos people don't want noise however grain is part of the art. the reason digital still photography doesn't use grain is because the computer program can't do a very good job of adding it and when you try to do it in camera the way you would with film you just get noise. movies and photography are an art whatever conveys the message is what we will use, the only reason grain is looked down upon in digital photography is because they can't create it like they can with film i have some photos i shot in black and white on film with grain and they wouldn't have near the impact they do without the grain

02-03-2008, 06:00 PM	#16
darkpoet25 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Feb 2007 Location:Indianapolis, IN Home Theater Gallery:45 4K collection:50 Blu-ray collection:297 Blu-ray reviews: 4	For me personally I think it adds to the overall movie watching experience. Grain is one thing, as it appears on most film being used. What I can't stand however, is video noise, moire pattern, and film dirt. Another thing is that with high definition video, on older films it will bring out slight imperfrction a little more due to the digital processing involved to "clean" the film. Some directors still use it to this day as well due to the look it gives them, think Spielberg and Close Encounters, which I think looks and sounds phenomenal. But this is just me, and to each their own.

02-03-2008, 07:01 PM	#18
krazeyeyez Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Dec 2007 Location:the guy on the couch Home Theater Gallery:18 Blu-ray collection:287 Blu-ray reviews:4	all i know is i don't like it, of my friends who saw blu when i first got it (300) none were impressed, of my friends who i showed lost season 4 or disney cars too ..... all are in the market saving and researching blu players now, interesting tidbit to keep in mind when your trying to push blu and grain.

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